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diy solar

Questions on inverter.

For my next purchase of solar panels, I am going to look for sales at Home Depot, Lowes and local outlets and hopefully good panels can be found there. That way the solar panels can be ordered into the store and I can inspect the panels before accepting them. I have had 3 solar panel shipments and all shipments had some damage. It can be difficult to return damaged panels, because larger panels are delivered by shipping companies and I found some difficult to deal with for returns.

Oddly enough, I've had zero damaged panels ordering through Amazon from Rich solar. Amazon does handle returns very well if anything is damaged.
 
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For later on I am looking at this Aims Power 24V 6000W inverter. But i will be getting the Giandel 24V inverter to start with. I also looking at victron inverters for later. Was thinking on Rich solar 24V 335W panels but They want you to buy a pallet.

If you are near a Home Depot you may want to consider these 24v 320 Watt Renogy Solar Panels. I have Rich Solar and Renogy Solar panels and in my opinion the Renogy are slightly better constructed. The panels can be ordered with free shipping to the store for pickup. Then you should be able to check them out at the store. If any panels are damaged it could be corrected right in the store.


A number of people write good reviews on the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter and is probably a good choice to start with. You may find you need a 24 VDC battery charger to charge the batteries during extended cloudy days especially in the winter depending on your location.

One item to be aware of is inverter idle consumption. The Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter idle specs are rated at 1.5 amps which is 36 watts at 24V (1.5A x 24V=36W). This is not bad. Some 4000 watt inverters are 25 watts or less and others are rated at 50 watts or more. The Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter is kind of in the middle. It means just having the inverter turned on consumes 36 watts x 24 hours = 846 watt hours (WH) or .846 Kilo Watt Hours (KWH). The SOK battery 24Vx100a = 2.4 KWH so the idle consumption of the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter would consume over 1/3 of the battery just being turned on and not suppling any loads. If the solar system battery bank is large enough this is not usually much of a concern for 36 watt idle consumption.

The Aims 24V 6000 watt inverter charger is a good one, but the idle consumption is rated at 76 watts so it would consume over 1.8 KWH in 24 hours which is probably excessive for many smaller solar systems.

If you are looking for a 24V 240 Split Phase the Magnum inverter/charger is hard to beat and can stack up to 6 last I knew. 4000 Watts x 6 = 24,000 Watts. Start with one and add as needed. They also have low idle consumption of 27 watts.



The Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter Specifications: • Power (4 AC Outlets): 4000W Rated, 8000W peak

• USB output: 1xDC 5V/2.4A(max)

• Output wave: pure sine wave

• THD<3% •efficiency 90%


• No load current: 1.5Amps

• Over load protection: 4000-4400Watt

• Nominal input voltage:19.6-32VDC


• Nominal output voltage: 110-120VAC
 
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I would get the larger of the two batteries. Plan on more capacity then you think you need. People think that it is OK to drain Li batteries completely, but it dramatically shortens their lifespan. Plan on never depleting past 80%. A 100% drain can result in shortening battery life to a third of just an 80% drain.

I would divide the watts by the price and pick the panel with the most W/$
the 335w would be 2010w and be 10w over with 250v solar charger at 41.6 VOC.
200w panels would come to 1kw with 45.4 VOC.

335w is 1.30 per watt
200w is 1.24 per watt
 
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Oddly enough, I've had zero damaged panels ordering through Amazon from Rich solar. Amazon does handle returns very well if anything is damaged.

I am glad your Rich Solar panels from Amazon arrived not damaged. Unfortunately my experience has not been so good. I ordered three smaller 160 watt 12V Rich Solar panels from Amazon. The panels arrived by normal Amazon shipping and 1 of the panels glass was shattered. As you stated I was able to easily return the panel by dropping it off at UPS for return and the replacement panel was shipped with no problems.

Later I ordered three Renogy 270 watt panels from Amazon. The panels were sold and shipped by Amazon. Because of the size & weight of the panels they arrived by an independent shipping company on a pallet. One of the panels had slight damage to it and I attempted to return it. Amazon would only allow me to deal with the shipping company. After several tries of attempting to get them to pick the order up (waiting & never arriving) I gave up and used the damaged panel. So far the damaged panel is working OK, but I would not want to repeat the experience.
 

I agree that the Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery Listed as 5.12KWHh has a good reputation. The Ampertime also has twice the capacity as the SOK 24 Volt 100 Ah Lifepo4 battery and is a good value. It is usually best to get as much battery as possible.

Another item is the SOK 100 Ah battery probably would not supply the 24V 4000W inverter at full load for long because (4000W/24V = 167 amps). The SOK is rated at a maximum continuous discharge of 100 amps although it does have a peak discharge of 200 amps for 3 seconds. The SOK is underrated for a 24V 4000W inverter in my opinion.

The Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery is rated at a maximum continuous discharge of 200 amps and would supply the full load of the inverter for extended times.

Down the road when possibly expanding the system an additional Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery configured in parallel would give over 10KWh.
 
Was also looking at the Victron smart battery sense. to tackle the lack of a low temp cutoff sensor.
 
I agree that the Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery Listed as 5.12KWHh has a good reputation. The Ampertime also has twice the capacity as the SOK 24 Volt 100 Ah Lifepo4 battery and is a good value. It is usually best to get as much battery as possible.

Another item is the SOK 100 Ah battery probably would not supply the 24V 4000W inverter at full load for long because (4000W/24V = 167 amps). The SOK is rated at a maximum continuous discharge of 100 amps although it does have a peak discharge of 200 amps for 3 seconds. The SOK is underrated for a 24V 4000W inverter in my opinion.

The Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery is rated at a maximum continuous discharge of 200 amps and would supply the full load of the inverter for extended times.

Down the road when possibly expanding the system an additional Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery configured in parallel would give over 10KWh.

Whatever battery you select, you will need more than one.
Spec sheet for the 24v Magnum inverter (very good inverter, BTW) says:

Maximum continuous input current 266 ADC
 
Whatever battery you select, you will need more than one.
Spec sheet for the 24v Magnum inverter (very good inverter, BTW) says:

Maximum continuous input current 266 ADC

I agree that 2 Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery would be better than 1, but it is my understanding the OP is considering purchasing the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter and down the road possibly something larger like the 24v Magnum, 24v Victron or something else.

Looking at the Manual for Giandel Inverters, if I read it right, it is suggested to use the formula for battery size of 4000w/24Vx110% = 183.3 amp battery is required to operate the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter. If this is true 1 Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery would meet this requirement.

It is interesting that the 24v Magnum 4000 watt inverter/charger requires 266 amps vs the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter only requires 183 amps. My guess it is due to the Magnum is a LF inverter and the Gaindel is a HF inverter. The Magnum is able to do a large surge of 5800 watts for 5 seconds. Using ohms law and 90% inverter efficiency (I =P/E x 110%) 5800w/24Vx110% = 285.83 amps would be required from the battery to produce the 5800 watt surge for 5 seconds.

Again, guessing the Giandel being a HF inverter can only do a surge for a few milliseconds so it is not included in the equation for required amps.

So bottom line if the OP purchases the Giandel 24V 4000 watt inverter it would seem 1 Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery is sufficient if my information is correct.

I also really like the Magnum MS4024PAE 24 Volt 4000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter/Charger with split phase 120/240 VAC. It is very possible that it will be my next inverter.
 

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Was also looking at the Victron smart battery sense. to tackle the lack of a low temp cutoff sensor.

Yes, if the Ampertime 24 Volt 200 Ah Lifepo4 battery does not have low temp protection in the BMS then it is my understanding that the Victron smart battery sense with a Victron MPPT solar charger can protect the battery from charging below freezing. Apparently the Victron smart battery sense will stop the SCC from charging the battery.

From the Victron website "For lead batteries , battery temperature data is used to adjust the charge-voltages: cold batteries require an increased charge-voltage, whereas hot batteries require a decreased charge-voltage. For lithium batteries temperature data is used to disable charging when they are too cold: charging lithium batteries near or below freezing causes permanent damage to the cells."

So, if the above is true then it should work.

The best action would be to keep the batteries above freezing and ideally above 59 degrees Fahrenheit, but this is not always possible.

One other possibility would be to purchase two Heated SOK 12V 206AH Lifepo4 batteries and wire them in a series configuration to obtain 24 Volts. These batteries are able to be used down to -4 degrees F according to SOK. If the temps stay above -4 F in theory solar charging would not have to be cut off.

https://www.us.sokbattery.com/product-page/sok-12v-206ah-lifepo4-battery-bluetooth-built-in-heater

 
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