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Quick help on barebones backup setup appreciated

Dan-PTI

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Joined
Nov 25, 2020
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2
Hey. Sorry in advance for a quick dump to ask for recommendations, but I don't have time to do the full research that I would normally do for a project like this. Long story short, my father has lung cancer and recently was prescribed an oxygen concentrator to keep his blood oxygen levels up. They live in a rural area where winter power outages are not unheard of. They have an extensive network of neighbors and friends that can help and support, but mom would feel much less anxiety if she had a simple switch on a battery backup to turn on in the middle of the night if power were to go out in the middle of a storm.

As such, I am doing a fast search on whether or not it would be feasible to put together a reliable batt backup for them by Christmas (we live out of state, but will be travelling back for Christmas.) I'm a mechanical engineer that works at a company that makes high current electrical components, harnesses & EV chargers for the truck & car market, so building out one of these setups is not the concern. I'm really just looking for advice on component selection due to the short timeframe I'm working with.

His oxygen concentrator runs at a pretty consistent 400W load. As such I was thinking about running a pair of 12V 300Ah batts in parallel to a 1,500 to 2,200 watt inverter. This should provide a minimum solid 12 hours of runtime. I guess my main question is how to go about providing for charging of the batts with mains power? Are there mains powered batt chargers that can safely monitor/charge a LiFePO4 battery? I see the Giandel 2,200W inverter recommended in the build list has a PWM input for connecting solar panels. Solar panels would impractical for this application, but can a simple DC power supply be fed into the PWM input of the inverter, and will the inverter control charging to the batteries? Or would it be better to wire in a completely separate battery charger for charging, and if so would there be any recommendations for one that can automatically monitor battery charge level? It would not need to be a high rate charger, as this system would be viewed as purely a backup for them to stay in the house during a power outage overnight, and not used often (hopefully at all.) The main consideration is that it is very simple to operate (such that a guy could remind his mother how to run it over the phone.)

Thanks in advance.
Dan
 
Here is what I use for cpap backup


If you just sub in a larger battery you can run far longer.

This is my media server UPS, similar function... and just put a few more batteries in parallel. I recently ran my concentrator during an overnight outage using 2 x 12.8v200ah batteries. Mine is a lower wattage quieter version than you describe, the consumption is only 250w to 300w. Batteries were around 25% down. Running the concentrator and an aquarium.

The inverter is also an AC pass through and also charges. LFP batteries don't like to float full all the time. I run the ac cord in a heavy duty timer so it discharges in the night and charges in the day.


My concentrator - I got it cheaper than that link. But since the monthly copay was $125 I figured it was cheaper to just buy a new one with a 5 year warranty outright than rent one.


With either of these you are always running on the battery/inverter so there is no need to switch something on.

The units I have could be substituted with an AIO.

I suggest you just measure and buy your cables pre-made verse diy them...unless you are going to crimp a lot of cables they tools to do it right can be expensive.
 
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I've had 2 of those Giandels with the built in PWM and both of them fried any electronics I plugged into them pretty much instantly. Their regular inverters are well regarded, but avoid that combo unit!

With a solid 400w draw, you can go with a smaller inverter and save yourself the self consumption. Anything over about 1000w would be overkill.

If you want a super clean little system, look at the MPP 1012LV unit. MPPT, AC charging, 1000w of inverter, etc for about $250 or so. If it can handle my dad's old 1980's Craftsman circular saw, it'll have no problem with the 02 generator.
 
Giandels? The Expertpower is a clone of a SREN inverter/charger and doesn't have a mppt.

The downside of it and other units is the fans generally aren't quiet.

I agree a smaller unit will be cleaner but most chargers have fans that are loud enough to be annoying.

My cpap design is used overnight and recharged in the day, for the usage it will take a 40amp charger to keep up. Which also means fans.

To the OP,
What is your budget?
Do you have a place where the fans and heat can be run along with the concentrator?
What model/brand concentrator do they have? If you don't know a picture is enough for me to tell?

Also, depends on the concentrator some have a max hose length of 50ft and some can go to 100ft. So there are options. I also have some suggestions to make using the concentrator less annoying.

To avoid nose bleeds - a little goes a long way

if the unit didn't come with a bubbler it is also helpful if the humidity is low.
If you use a bubbler a water separator is a must at the other end.

I use a bubbler at the concentrator, a 50ft hose, a separator, the a 15ft hose to the cpap. I only need the aquegel in winter. A Q-tip to dip and apply keeps it sanitary. I use maybe a small can a year.
 
With the time constraint I would recommend a power pack sometimes called a solar generator. Easiest for your parents to operate.

Edit: Might have been missed by some but the time constraint the OP has is:
"As such, I am doing a fast search on whether or not it would be feasible to put together a reliable batt backup for them by Christmas (we live out of state, but will be travelling back for Christmas.)"
 
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I've had 2 of those Giandels with the built in PWM and both of them fried any electronics I plugged into them pretty much instantly. Their regular inverters are well regarded, but avoid that combo unit!

With a solid 400w draw, you can go with a smaller inverter and save yourself the self consumption. Anything over about 1000w would be overkill.

If you want a super clean little system, look at the MPP 1012LV unit. MPPT, AC charging, 1000w of inverter, etc for about $250 or so. If it can handle my dad's old 1980's Craftsman circular saw, it'll have no problem with the 02 generator.

On the suggested AIO - it only does 20amps charge when on ac power only ... so
14.4v * 20a = 288w ---

it won't keep up with the demand and keep the batteries charged - it is a non-starter. There are 3000w units with 40~70amps chargers but they all have high idle draw, are wall mount and are loud.

With the time constraint I would recommend a power pack sometimes called a solar generator. Easiest for your parents to operate.

I agree with this depending on budget - but they are spendy when you figure the needed capacity -
math below


Time contraint - if you can get all the parts there ahead of time it will take several hours to assemble and test. -- you would need to have an idea of where you want to install it or in a box. You could estimate all the wires at 19in and probably be ok. I would have to check the stud size on all the bits I have so you could order the proper wires with the proper ends.


Checking Jackery, Bluetti, and Ecoflow the cost of a solar generator with the required capacity is around $3500 to $4500

The math - note this excludes conversion losses -

Here is some more math and a very reliable but self built unit design with links - The total cost is around $2200 without the MPPT.

NOTE - this can be done with cheaper components and cut $600ish - but reliability may be affected. Cheaper batteries save $300, Cheaper inverter save $200, $100ish


400w * 12hr = 4800Whrs * 1.25 for extra just in case = 6000Whrs - that is an expensive solar generator.


12.8v * 300ah = 3840 -- so need two of them
12.8v * 300ah * 2 = 7680Whrs

7680Whrs / 400watts = 19.2hrs runtime without power

With the 60amp charger -
7680Whrs / (60amps * 14.4) = 8.9 hours to recharge from empty after a power outage.

Parts list -
the Pheonix inverter has very very low idle draw.
I have some of the bus bars so I know they are pure copper and rated as such.
I have a battery of that type using it for my UPS on the computer so I know the quality.
I have the 20amp version of the litime charger and it run for more than a year reliably -


All of this can be installed into a box to cover the wires and stuff... BUT the charger needs to have ventilation so either outside the box or with holes and baffles cut to allow it to intake fresh air and blow the hot out. The inverter also needs fresh air - so in a box it might work to cutout one end to the air intakes and the other for the exhaust. any stiff board you can form fit but thin enough to cut to the right size... non-conductive, non-combustable. So something like a thin cutting board.

If you want to know state of charge it takes a second set of bus bars so we have a set of battery bus bars and a set of load bus bars.

2 sets

2 batteries

4 fuse block

4 fuses - 2 - 250amp, 1 x 75amp, and 1 x 150amp --- may want to get extras of each

1 switch

1 inverter

1 charger - 60amps

1 class T fuseblock

1 class T fuse 150amp - get a spare

Battery monitor


IF you want to add solar - (not required)
this is the MPPT - and you need some panels you can pick up locally - at 12v it will put 500w in the battery - if you get the 150/45 it puts 600w into the battery ... or you can get others - but the solar aspect is not required




Battery cables the same length to the bus bars - so they are evenly used.
Also, use no-ox-id special A on alll the connections - just thin coating

Need a torque wrench for proper tightening everything


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