R410 phaseout

[givemefreecooling]

What do you think will happen to the supply of hybrid heat pumps after 1/1/25? Any r410 heat pumps manufactured after that date will be banned from US.

It seems like that deadline would knock out the most popular hybrids on the forum here - eg4, hotspot, airspool - and just leave ecosolaris as an option - which seems to be barely mentioned here.

For me - I'm still trying to figure out spacing, where to install, solar setup, etc. and think I'm far from being ready to commit. If there's no backups, though, I may have to move that timetable up.

 

[sollap]

I imagine they'll simply update their designs to use an acceptable refrigerant like R-454B.

 

[houseofancients]

What do you think will happen to the supply of hybrid heat pumps after 1/1/25? Any r410 heat pumps manufactured after that date will be banned from US.

It seems like that deadline would knock out the most popular hybrids on the forum here - eg4, hotspot, airspool - and just leave ecosolaris as an option - which seems to be barely mentioned here.

For me - I'm still trying to figure out spacing, where to install, solar setup, etc. and think I'm far from being ready to commit. If there's no backups, though, I may have to move that timetable up.

They will simply switch to propane, as 99% of all new heat pumps outside the usa have been running for a couple of years now

 

[houseofancients]

It is called r290 in the HVAC world, but it is simply propane

 

[v_green57]

It is called r290 in the HVAC world, but it is simply propane

Bet it costs more than propane, though...

 

[RDuke]

The Ecosolaris solar heat pumps are already using R32 according to their web site.

 

[houseofancients]

Bet it costs more than propane, though...

I suppose it's more pure and costs a bit more to make than your simple burning propane

 

[Madcodger]

I keep wondering if we'll see a blowout sale. Hoping... I need one more 9K for an outbuilding. The main house has Mitsubishis and I don't want to spend that much.

 

[Rmart30]

I keep wondering if we'll see a blowout sale. Hoping... I need one more 9K for an outbuilding. The main house has Mitsubishis and I don't want to spend that much.

I ve been watching to see if the prices start tanking but havent seen much movement yet.

 

[givemefreecooling]

I ve been watching to see if the prices start tanking but havent seen much movement yet.

They have a year after 1/1/25 manufacture to get them installed. So any stockpiles already in the US they can just sell thru.

 

[Quattrohead]

R32 has been the current replacement for R410 but I don't know if that is a temporary step to something else like the aforementioned propane based refrigerants. Actually isn't R32 some kind of propane? Not too sure.

 

[wpns]

I suppose it's more pure and costs a bit more to make than your simple burning propane

I would hope so:

Propane Grades and Quality - HD5 HD10 and Commercial Propane

Three grades of propane refined in the U.S. are HD-5, HD-10 and commercial propane. HD-5 spec propane is the highest quality grade propane sold by propane companies in the U.S.

www.propane101.com

TLDR: can be as little as 90% propane, and include up to 10% Propylene (yes, the stuff plastic is made of, so really not recommended for engines).
Lots of apocryphal stories of getting so much butane and water vapor in the summertime that summer propane won't even vaporize in the winter, etc. I mean, the supply chains are so long how does my corner station even know what he's getting?

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Deye has sold an R32 model in Australia for several years, so I expect EG4 will switch to that. Have no idea why they aren't selling it now?? Higher cost perhaps??

 

[Brett V]

Will replacement R410 be banned for repairs also?

 

[wpns]

Will replacement R410 be banned for repairs also?

Of course not, it’ll still be available for repairs, it’ll just get gradually phased out like R22 was. I mean, you can still buy R22, though it’s getting more expensive now that it’s all recycled.

 

[S Davis]

Of course not, it’ll still be available for repairs, it’ll just get gradually phased out like R22 was. I mean, you can still buy R22, though it’s getting more expensive now that it’s all recycled.

Checked last week on R-22 it was $1278.00 for a 25# jug. I have a few systems that run it still.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

R32 has been the current replacement for R410 but I don't know if that is a temporary step to something else like the aforementioned propane based refrigerants. Actually isn't R32 some kind of propane? Not too sure.

In the eu
R32 till year 2027 .
R32 filling with new gas till 2030
R32 filling recycling gas till 2035 .

After nothing its iligaal to fill it again

 

[givemefreecooling]

In the eu
R32 till year 2027 .
R32 filling with new gas till 2030
R32 filling recycling gas till 2035 .

After nothing its iligaal to fill it again

The US is just now moving to something the EU is phasing out? That seems silly.

 

[Brett V]

So is the end game to make air conditioning too expensive for common people and save it for the elites?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

The US is just now moving to something the EU is phasing out? That seems silly.

Nope not really

We talking about heat pumps that use earth ground

Eu have only on problems and that is .
Split -airco and monoblock airco unit.
Those will stay use r32 till it is use to save propaan gas.

And yes new Split-airco are make for propaan but do not have full test to be use .
The safety problems is if thare is leak in the inside unit that the gas that pomp in to your room.
And can have a explosion.

Reason that usa just start to use r32 that have yes propaan in it .

So really usa to safety use is slower with new gear.
A good think really this way thare is time to see how good new gear is over time.

Eu is that stupid to push fast new gear in use.
All for Climate controlle children that cry a lot.

 

[Supervstech]

The current move is to r32 or r454b i think depending on brands.

Fyi... r410 is a blend of r32 and r125... so... r32 is a pure refrigerant, but still a potent greenhouse gas
R 454b is a tad better... but still a blend, and still a greenhouse gas, so yes, it will also get phased out.

If co2 wasnt so high pressure, it likely would be the choice, and may one day end up being all that is legal...

Propane/r290 is just too flammable to be allowed in homes in the hvac quantities needed to cool.

R600/butane mix is more common in dorm fridges etc, but, wrong temp glide for hvac...

 

[wpns]

Propane/r290 is just too flammable to be allowed in homes in the hvac quantities needed to cool.

How about putting all the cooling bits outside and run a heat transfer fluid into the indoor unit? Then a leak means you lose some glycol or whatever.

 

[altenergy21]

Is the R410A refrigerant phase-out a hoax.
It causes depletion of the ozone layer but the reason it's harmful because it's has a high GWP. But we're told carbon is associated with Climate Change (don't say Global Warming, they'll hate you).

Why is R410A having a GWP instead of GCCP for climate change? Is ozone depletion causing global warming or should I say climate change?
I thought climate change traps heat, not depleting the ozone causing UV lights to get through.

There's no global warming because we're still in the ice age. All past predictions about arctic ice were wrong, most recent is Greta's.

It's true that experiments in lab shows carbon traps heats. Many things are true in labs, doesn't mean it's true elsewhere.

Dr. Shinya Yamanaka and Sir John B. Gurdon were awarded a Nobel Prize for reprogramming of adult skin cells turning them into pluripotent stem cells. This proves that there's no biological "clock" and that old cells can just get younger.

This doesn't mean people have been succeeding in getting younger with the exception maybe with Professor David Sinclair of Harvard. There's a lot of experimentation going on.

R410A could deplete ozone in the lab too but reality could be different.

 

[givemefreecooling]

Is the R410A refrigerant phase-out a hoax.
It causes depletion of the ozone layer but the reason it's harmful because it's has a high GWP. But we're told carbon is associated with Climate Change (don't say Global Warming, they'll hate you).

Why is R410A having a GWP instead of GCCP for climate change? Is ozone depletion causing global warming or should I say climate change?
I thought climate change traps heat, not depleting the ozone causing UV lights to get through.

There's no global warming because we're still in the ice age. All past predictions about arctic ice were wrong, most recent is Greta's.

It's true that experiments in lab shows carbon traps heats. Many things are true in labs, doesn't mean it's true elsewhere.

Dr. Shinya Yamanaka and Sir John B. Gurdon were awarded a Nobel Prize for reprogramming of adult skin cells turning them into pluripotent stem cells. This proves that there's no biological "clock" and that old cells can just get younger.

This doesn't mean people have been succeeding in getting younger with the exception maybe with Professor David Sinclair of Harvard. There's a lot of experimentation going on.

R410A could deplete ozone in the lab too but reality could be different.

Wat

 

[MattiFin]

They will simply switch to propane, as 99% of all new heat pumps outside the usa have been running for a couple of years now

That is a bit of overstatement. R32 is the current choice in Europe for mini-splits.
Monoblocks(water coolers/heaters) and ”penguin” floor standing models are R32 or R290.

There is at least one propane minisplit tho: https://www.klimaworld.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/58655