Radon Gas - anyone deal with it?

[JJJJ]

Ours was professionally done. It closes off the sump pump well and pulls air from the drain pipe around the house and out through a fan driven pipe on the side of the house

 

[peakbagger]

As I mentioned, be very cautious about rushing to put in mitigation related to house sale. The actual equipment and fix is not that difficult but the when in rush, prices seems to go up considerably.

 

[fortcollinsradonco]

Since you spend most of your time on the main level of your house, it's advisable to conduct the radon test in the area where you spend the most time. This will give you a better understanding of the radon levels in the spaces where you are at the highest risk of exposure.

The cost can vary depending on factors like the size of your home, the specific system design, and the complexity of installation. It's recommended to consult with a professional radon mitigation contractor who can assess your home and provide an accurate cost estimate.

 

[myles]

simple fix, don't build a basement that could just flood anyway! :D

 

[SparkyJJO]

simple fix, don't build a basement that could just flood anyway! :D

Dude if we didn't have a basement I have no idea where we'd put all our extra crap and storage! I guess the garage would have no chance of actually having the car in it...

 

[OzSolar]

simple fix, don't build a basement that could just flood anyway! :D

? For many people building on hilly terrain just trying to get your site level results in adding or taking away a lot of dirt. You might as well build a basement while you’re at it. I basically doubled my square feet when I built my house for hardly any extra money. And since I live in tornado alley, we have a heck of a storm shelter now.

 

[DIYrich]

$15, you set it up then mail back after 96 hours. We came in at 8.3 so now I've deployed a long term test in the same location to see if we can repeat it.

The risk with short-term tests is that you test during a low period. If you test at 8, then you need to mitigate. The only thing to test might be to confirm you didn't get a bad test.

The cost to mitigate most homes is around $1,000. Exhaust pipes now look like gutter pipes, so blend in better. Get it done, and you don't have to worry about it. All new homes should have it done during construction.

 

[peakbagger]

The cost is lot more than $1000 if its in the water supply.

 

[OzSolar]

The risk with short-term tests is that you test during a low period. If you test at 8, then you need to mitigate. The only thing to test might be to confirm you didn't get a bad test.

The cost to mitigate most homes is around $1,000. Exhaust pipes now look like gutter pipes, so blend in better. Get it done, and you don't have to worry about it. All new homes should have it done during construction.

I agree however you appear to have missed the point of my post. Read it again.

 

[Hedges]

View attachment 147839

so you're left with basically two choices:
1) Mitigate the radon concentrations.
2) Don't smoke.

Which do do you think is the more economical?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

so you're left with basically two choices:
1) Mitigate the radon concentrations.
2) Don't smoke.

Which do do you think is the more economical?

It’s a choice until it’s over 9 (I think) in NC then it’s mandatory.

 

[JWLV]

Here's a radon map that I pulled off the web from a Google search.
I suppose if you're in the areas that are red, then you might want to look into getting a radon test. If you're in the other areas, don't worry as much.

 

[Danke]

“Drs. Cuttler and Sanders conclude their plea for science-based home radon assessments thusly: "The EPA action level for reducing radon in homes is 14 times lower than the 'No Observed Adverse Effect Level' (NOAEL) estimated in this article. The very low action level has been causing undue fear and unwarranted costs to many homeowners as well as a reduction in the market prices of their radon-stigmatized homes. It should also be noted that radon remediation significantly increases lung cancer mortality. To dispel the fear and eliminate this economic burden, the action level should be raised by a factor of at least seven, where the health benefit is near optimum."

Many studies showing little to no danger.

Don't Fear Radon Concerns at Home; They're Overblown

Many homeowners and those buying property are concerned about potential radon-related health issues, specifically having to do with radiation exposure as a cause of cancer. A new publication by Dr. Jerry Cuttler, an advisor at the American Council, dispels that concern using science.

www.acsh.org

 

[peakbagger]

I agree however you appear to have missed the point of my post. Read it again.

I did read your post, you made a general observation on the cost to remove radon. Radon occurs from two distinct sources in most homes. Vents that look like gutters may work fine to remove soil gases coming into the basement but will do nothing to deal with radon coming in with a water supply. In most cases the radon coming in with the water is more of an issue as it comes out readily in showers and fixtures directly into the occupants face. Subslab ventilation is not going to do a lot for radon introduced into the building from water.

 

[OzSolar]

I did read your post, you made a general observation on the cost to remove radon.

I don’t see where I made any observations, general or specific, about the cost to remove radon. ?‍

 

[DIYrich]

I don’t see where I made any observations, general or specific, about the cost to remove radon. ?‍

You did mention a long-term test to confirm. IMHO, a short term test to confirm. If you have under 2 on the second, then a third short term (don't know which of the first two is correct) and long-term to confirm no need to mitigate.

With all this testing, you might as well just mitigate, and not worry about it.

 

[OzSolar]

You did mention a long-term test to confirm. IMHO, a short term test to confirm. If you have under 2 on the second, then a third short term (don't know which of the first two is correct) and long-term to confirm no need to mitigate.

With all this testing, you might as well just mitigate, and not worry about it.

If testing was expensive that would be a logical approach.

But I’ll have less than $50 in testing after the long term test is done so I’m going to hold off for another month until the 2nd test (the long term) is done. We don’t smoke or spend much time in the basement.

 

[Hedges]

“It should also be noted that radon remediation significantly increases lung cancer mortality. To dispel the fear and eliminate this economic burden, the action level should be raised by a factor of at least seven, where the health benefit is near optimum."

Extraordinary claims.


A comment below the article:

"I'm trying to figure out this statement: "It should also be noted that radon remediation significantly increases lung cancer mortality." I'm not on any particular side here, just wondering the facts behind the idea that reducing radon decay products from being inhaled increases cancer mortality. Thanks!"

From the article:

'Arbitrary standards such as these ignore thousands of studies disproving LNT and demonstrating radiation s hormetic effect that a "toxic" exposure at high levels can be beneficial at lower doses. Hormesis applies to radiation, too. Dr. Cuttler has asserted that no harmful health effects have ever been detected in high natural radiation background areas, most notably (for the American Council, anyway) in his publication, "Nuclear Energy and Health, and the Benefits of Low-level Radiation Hormesis." Compared to average-dose regions, rates of both cancer and congenital disease are consistently decreased, rather than increased.'

The linked article

http://acsh.org/2009/03/nuclear-energy-and-health-and-the-benefits-of-low-dose-radiation-hormesis/

... could not be found, but searching for it seems to have found it:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19343116/

(abstract)

"Radiation hormesis is explained, pointing out that beneficial effects are expected following a low dose or dose rate because protective responses against stresses are stimulated."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2203/dose-response.08-024.Cuttler

(full article)

tl;dr:
Cancer deaths are lower in counties with higher natural radon exposure.
Being "vaccinated" with radiation produces an immune response.

Spreading Calmness, Uncertainty, and Doubt?

 

[Crowz]

Here's a radon map that I pulled off the web from a Google search.
I suppose if you're in the areas that are red, then you might want to look into getting a radon test. If you're in the other areas, don't worry as much.

Figures I'm in zone 1 in my states

 

[DIYrich]

If testing was expensive that would be a logical approach.

But I’ll have less than $50 in testing after the long term test is done so I’m going to hold off for another month until the 2nd test (the long term) is done. We don’t smoke or spend much time in the basement.

So you have 5% of the cost of mitigation for testing. Unless you are certain that the 8 level test is an anomaly, you will need to continue to spend for testing ever year or two unless you mitigate.

 

[OzSolar]

So you have 5% of the cost of mitigation for testing. Unless you are certain that the 8 level test is an anomaly, you will need to continue to spend for testing ever year or two unless you mitigate.

I'm just followng the testing lab's recomendation which is that at my level you should deploy a long term test before making a decision to mitigate.

I should mention that my basement has an 8" concrete ceiling with 2 layers of rebar on 12" centers since it's also our tornado shelter. Punching through there is not going to be easy or cheap. Further complicating matters is the radiant in floor tubing in the concrete so mitigation may not be as simple as others or I likely would have already done it myself.

 

[Crowz]

Wouldn't a blower system moving air as ventilation via the basement or crawlspace pretty much eliminate the problem?

 

[Hedges]

my basement has an 8" concrete ceiling with 2 layers of rebar on 12" centers since it's also our tornado shelter. Punching through there is not going to be easy or cheap.

Rotohammer could make 1/2" hole, about 2" depth per minute. 4 minutes work.
Sucking air out that should provide enough exchange.

Or another direction, horizonal through wall?
My basement flooded the first year due to rain. I'm on a slope so I made gravity drain to lower point.

 

[curiouscarbon]

[ Rhetoric suggesting that intentionally exposing humans to higher levels of radon is ethical ]

[ Link to American Council on Science and Health website allaying fears of radon exposure at home ]

The American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) is a pro-industry advocacy organization founded in 1978 by Elizabeth Whelan.

American Council on Science and Health - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Elizabeth Whelan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Love Canal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the 1940s, the canal was purchased by Hooker Chemical Company, which used the site to dump 19,800 t (19,500 long tons; 21,800 short tons) of chemical byproducts from the manufacturing of dyes, perfumes, and solvents for rubber and synthetic resins.

In 1998 Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, founder of the American Council on Science and Health wrote an editorial asserting that the media triggered hysteria among the residents when it called Love Canal a “public health time bomb”, and that illness among the residents was caused less by chemical waste than by stress – this in spite of an EPA study showing that 33% of the residents had undergone chromosomal damage.

Love Canal is a neighborhood in Niagara Falls, New York, United States, infamous as the location of a 0.28 km2 (0.11 sq mi) landfill that became the site of an enormous environmental disaster in the 1970s. Decades of dumping toxic chemicals harmed the health of hundreds of residents;[1] the area was cleaned up over the course of 21 years in a Superfund operation.

best known for promoting science that was favorable to industry

this woman is literally haunting people from the beyond, they passed away in 2014.

---

Let's continue rationally discussing Radon in residential setting.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Extraordinary claims.


A comment below the article:

"I'm trying to figure out this statement: "It should also be noted that radon remediation significantly increases lung cancer mortality." I'm not on any particular side here, just wondering the facts behind the idea that reducing radon decay products from being inhaled increases cancer mortality. Thanks!"

From the article:

'Arbitrary standards such as these ignore thousands of studies disproving LNT and demonstrating radiation s hormetic effect that a "toxic" exposure at high levels can be beneficial at lower doses. Hormesis applies to radiation, too. Dr. Cuttler has asserted that no harmful health effects have ever been detected in high natural radiation background areas, most notably (for the American Council, anyway) in his publication, "Nuclear Energy and Health, and the Benefits of Low-level Radiation Hormesis." Compared to average-dose regions, rates of both cancer and congenital disease are consistently decreased, rather than increased.'

The linked article

http://acsh.org/2009/03/nuclear-energy-and-health-and-the-benefits-of-low-dose-radiation-hormesis/

... could not be found, but searching for it seems to have found it:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19343116/

(abstract)

"Radiation hormesis is explained, pointing out that beneficial effects are expected following a low dose or dose rate because protective responses against stresses are stimulated."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2203/dose-response.08-024.Cuttler

(full article)

tl;dr:
Cancer deaths are lower in counties with higher natural radon exposure.
Being "vaccinated" with radiation produces an immune response.

Spreading Calmness, Uncertainty, and Doubt?

Hormesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Baseline radon exposure is defined as what someone would experience breathing outdoors in a given location. No enclosing structure.

In a residential context, a "tent" is assembled over a specific plot of land that is emitting a varying amount of radon gas.

It acts as an upside down collection bucket.

Hormesis is a mechanism that applies in some situations, in my understanding/opinion. Don't necessarily know which ones for which molecules.

Apple Hormesis and Doctors, or something.

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Outdoor ambient radon exposure with Wind and Atmospheric Dilution is a conceptual concentration level that I am totally fine with.
With an upside down bucket house, the levels rise "unnaturally" or "artificially" in the absence of active ventilation with outside.
Mitigating to Ambient is the usual goal anyways.

---

Those who wish to profit from building houses, will have an incentive to exclude radon mitigation mechanisms due to the cost of protection of life, in the face of a goal to gain from a finite resource.