RayfromTX Gone..? Huh..?

[robby]

Keep in mind these rules also limit me more than anyone else. If any of this is allowed, I will become the largest sales rep of them all. I don't want that. I don't want to compete with you guys. If referral of sales reps is allowed, I will try to dominate like I do on my YouTube videos. I will work 24/7 to have the most transparent and useful information around, and will stand by my recommendations. I'm telling you right now, we should not have that on this forum. Or else I will take advantage of it and post "tell them I sent you" constantly. I want this forum to be for education only. It should be for everyone, and free of ads. No exceptions.

Your honesty is very admirable. I see both sides of this argument as being very valid.
It would be nice to have reliable feedback on vendors based on buyers experiences but unfortunately the business world has gone to hell and there seems to be no limit on what people will do in the name of the almighty dollar.
Like everything else only a few people would abuse the system but unfortunately everyone has to be kept in line to prevent the few from abusing an open system.

 

[houseofancients]

Your honesty is very admirable. I see both sides of this argument as being very valid.
It would be nice to have reliable feedback on vendors based on buyers experiences but unfortunately the business world has gone to hell and there seems to be no limit on what people will do in the name of the almighty dollar.
Like everything else only a few people would abuse the system but unfortunately everyone has to be kept in line to prevent the few from abusing an open system.

and i do believe there's a high level of self regulation here too , where users report questionable behavior or motives.
that being said, i.know how much work running a forum is

 

[RayfromTX]

I regret being the Catalyst for this discussion. I have always been uncomfortable with self promotion or being the center of attention. I have spent most of my life trying to learn and share what I’ve learned with others. Discussion forums have been a big part of that. I’m grateful for all that I have learned from the members on this forum and I’m glad that I can read their posts once again. Happy Easter y’all.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I regret being the Catalyst for this discussion.

Don't be. Better to have the discussion and clearly set the rules/clarify the rules now.

 

[Will Prowse]

Ray posted a video in my opinion referring to this thread that you guys may want to see:

So I responded to the youtube video with this comment:

Hey Ray, seems like a lot of this has to do with our discussion on the forum. I would like to respond with my experience. I work with many of these companies and they will all try to establish a "relationship" to push more sales. This happens constantly. This is why my channel has zero loyalty to these distributors. Jenny does not make the cells, she sells them. There are multiple distributors of these fantastic cells, and all of them sweet talk me. But I ignore my experience. I always take the word of my viewers over anything. If a company treats me well, but my viewers make any complaints, I will tell everyone about it.

These distributors can be considered mail forwarding warehouses for Chinese suppliers. That's it. They do not have a say in how the cells are manufactured, and use investor capital to decrease pricing with large volume orders. That's it. Nothing more.

For my channel, I don't give any special treatment to any sales rep or company. I have been let down over and over again, and I do not trust them. I don't care how nice they are to me, they are not to be trusted. Ever.

By the way, I think Jenny is great from my experience. And Amy and all the others. And luckily, I haven't heard anyone complain about them yet. But. I have not met them, and they also sent me those photos in her wedding dress etc, and I don't trust it till I see it in person. These sales reps are trained to act in this way, and I will not believe who they are till I meet them in person.

Super cool house!!! I love it! Please post more about it. Your other videos are much appreciated as well, and the battery videos.

If anyone disagrees with me let me know. I deal with at least 30+ of these companies constantly, so I think this information is relevant and helpful.

Personally I like working with the Chinese. The Americans are worse. They will sweet talk you till you make a review video saying their product is garbage, then instantly become angry and hate you.

If you bash a Chinese product, they say "sorry sorry, we will fix it now". And sure enough, they do. The Americans take a year or more to update their products. It's pretty silly. I'm sure you guys know who I'm talking about.

 

[Horsefly]

@Will Prowse I don't take issue with most of your policy on this stuff, although I personally wish the vendors were still allowed here. As for the discussion with @RayfromTX about his video and individual sales people, I really do agree with Ray. I think it goes way beyond this particular hobby, and really has little to do with Chinese vs U.S. (or any other) vendors. My personal experience in my job and in my personal life has relied quite a bit on personal trust in individuals that I work with, and - at least I hope - I have given people reason to know they could trust me.

I do agree that it the company / vendor drives much of how good or bad a purchase experience can be, but we mostly only have interaction with one person. If that person doesn't see any reason to dig in after the sale and help resolve problems, your success relies on your luck and ability to elevate the issue. Even if you do elevate the issue, if the sales rep is not motivated they can still submarine the whole thing.

I don't even think it is just altruism either. I think there are some sales people that seem to recognize that if they really work hard to develop a trusting relationship with their customers it will get them more customers. Amy Wan @ Luyuan and Jenny Wu @ Docan are two good examples in my experience. I have no idea if they are really nice people, but their interactions with me have been very courteous and they have chased things down for me that they really didn't need to. So I am more inclined to recommend them, and to make my next purchase with one of them.

It may be just me, but I also don't think there is room for sexist suggestions that we only develop these trusting relationships with women because we are guys. I mean.... come on.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

It's pretty common in industry to develop relationships with particular sales people. It's how a lot of the procurement departments function - you have a good sales person, you meet them a couple of times a year (before COVID), wine and dine, keep everyone happy and the expectations on point. I can't imaging having to deal with different sales people all the time when buying raw material or electronic components for the devices we make...

I understand both points of view, even though I don't necessarily agree with both points.

 

[WYtreasure]

It's pretty common in industry to develop relationships with particular sales people. It's how a lot of the procurement departments function - you have a good sales person, you meet them a couple of times a year (before COVID), wine and dine, keep everyone happy and the expectations on point. I can't imaging having to deal with different sales people all the time when buying raw material or electronic components for the devices we make...

I understand both points of view, even though I don't necessarily agree with both points.

Sort of off topic but wanted to say Thank You for jumping in(to the frying pan) as a Moderator.

 

[Will Prowse]

@Will Prowse I don't take issue with most of your policy on this stuff, although I personally wish the vendors were still allowed here. As for the discussion with @RayfromTX about his video and individual sales people, I really do agree with Ray. I think it goes way beyond this particular hobby, and really has little to do with Chinese vs U.S. (or any other) vendors. My personal experience in my job and in my personal life has relied quite a bit on personal trust in individuals that I work with, and - at least I hope - I have given people reason to know they could trust me.

I do agree that it the company / vendor drives much of how good or bad a purchase experience can be, but we mostly only have interaction with one person. If that person doesn't see any reason to dig in after the sale and help resolve problems, your success relies on your luck and ability to elevate the issue. Even if you do elevate the issue, if the sales rep is not motivated they can still submarine the whole thing.

I don't even think it is just altruism either. I think there are some sales people that seem to recognize that if they really work hard to develop a trusting relationship with their customers it will get them more customers. Amy Wan @ Luyuan and Jenny Wu @ Docan are two good examples in my experience. I have no idea if they are really nice people, but their interactions with me have been very courteous and they have chased things down for me that they really didn't need to. So I am more inclined to recommend them, and to make my next purchase with one of them.

It may be just me, but I also don't think there is room for sexist suggestions that we only develop these trusting relationships with women because we are guys. I mean.... come on.

Sexist suggestions? How so? Have you met any of these sales rep in real life? Companies use sex for advertising all the time to push more sales. Case in point is pharmaceutical reps, who I know personally. You have to be blind not to see this in action every single day. Post a video of you with one of these sales reps in the flesh. Personally, I do not trust any of these companies or sales reps, even if I have a good experience. Trust is not required here. If someone else has a bad experience, I will not disregard it because of mine. That is unfair and not logical.

I see that you want vendors present on the forum still. How about Ray and yourself and others create a message board or review site for these sales reps and vendors. Pay the hosting fees and manage it, and make $0 for your efforts. This forum is my way to help others for education, not pushing cells from china. I do not care about personal connections with some random sales rep. And these companies are mail forwarding companies in essence. The only person I care about are forum members, and their ability to access unbiased useful information, and that is it. I do not care about these companies the slightest, and there will be many more to come.

Keep in mind that if a companies head engineer wishes to post here with useful information about their product, they are free to do so. That is fantastic. And it would help their sales a lot. Having random sales reps who fill orders and make a commission, will not be allowed. Plain and simple.

 

[Will Prowse]

I cannot believe how much trust and connection some people have to these random lifepo4 cell distributors. They are doing a fantastic job getting people to like them, that is for sure. If I were to think this way, my channel would fail, and I would be criticized to death. I would be seen as ignorant the moment someone has a problem. I am constantly trying to find something wrong with these companies or the products. Even if I really like a company, I am constantly looking for people making complaints about them. I do not care what the sales reps tell me, I listen to the actual customer. Just because I personally have a good experience does not mean the company is to be trusted.

 

[Horsefly]

@Will Prowse - I seemed to have touched a nerve, and I didn't intend to. I'm really sorry for that. I certainly don't want a different message board. Like I said, I am fine with your policy. I really do appreciate that you have set this forum up and keep it going. This is - by far - the best place I've found for virtually any of the topics that I am interested in for solar. Absolutely the best.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Sort of off topic but wanted to say Thank You for jumping in(to the frying pan) as a Moderator.

Maybe I should refrain from this though... I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with many of my opinions, and as a (newly minted) mod I probably should be more careful - none of what I say should be considered an endorsement for anything, one way or another.

 

[WYtreasure]

Maybe I should refrain from this though... I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with many of my opinions, and as a (newly minted) mod I probably should be more careful - none of what I say should be considered an endorsement for anything, one way or another.

Like I said "INTO THE FRYING PAN". Good luck.

 

[BuffaloTrace]

With respect to commerce, I enjoy the non-commercial aspect of this ad-free forum. Ads, commercials, and commercial enticements are a reason I'm hesitant towards most forums as I just hate commercials, always have and always will. I understand it comes with the territory on some platforms and I take the hits while using them with the knowledge that the content I receive outweighs my perceived negatives in ads.

I suppose the line is drawn at whether this is a commercial or non commercial platform, and from what I've seen and what little time I've been around reading the forum (<3 years), that this is a non commercial private forum funded by private monies and donated time from the administrators/managers.

While I also enjoyed the "commercial" vendor section, I completely understand that it did not really mix with the nature and intent of the message board.

The suggestion that a separate forum board, exclusively pertaining to any and all vendors of various sorts, but paid for privately, would seem to fill the need of the people wanting the information/products "sold" to them. But commercial dealings have the intent to make money, and unfortunately it can be challenging to do such a thing when the enticement of money is involved.

That being said, there's nothing like doing the leg work oneself of finding vendors, and talking through messages with these distributors to really get the gist of what's going on. Anyone not willing to do that and take the recommendation of a stranger on a forum, is just being lazy, and really has no grounds to blame anyone but themselves and work it out with the vendor if things go south. This may seem harsh, but just because someone else has a good experience does not mean you will. None of the private purchase experience and recommendations are taken away from this forum anyway.

This is a DIY forum after all, one may be willing to truly "DIY" down to even the purchase of the most critical component.

 

[Supervstech]

Maybe I should refrain from this though... I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with many of my opinions, and as a (newly minted) mod I probably should be more careful - none of what I say should be considered an endorsement for anything, one way or another.

My view on modrrating is this...

What I post in the forum has NOTHING to do with my status as a mod.

Agree, disagree, insult whatever. Zero topic posts from me are moderator related.

My mod posts are in private message.
That way, anybody can feel comfortable disagreeing with me no punishment will be forthcoming.

Heck, I can be a jerk sometimes... I get mad, I lean one way or the other on tons of topics... I have seen what happens when moderation dips into personal views... it ain't pretty...

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I gotta chime in from the other side - I work for a company but I'm here to help people, not make sales. I don't get any commissions or anything. I used to have a direct phone line that just kept filling up with voicemails of people asking me for hook ups, deals, etc. And it got to the point where I disabled my voicemail and only take emails now (which I get tons of them from here and youtube etc). I don't think anyone who has a financial incentive to sell more (even if they are 100% honest about everything) should be allowed. Any affiliates, kickbacks, etc should not be on an informative forum like this. I'm happy to chime in with my knowledge about our products and give opinions when people ask, but I'll never try to SELL something - just give the info about it and let someone make their own choices. And anytime I tell someone to call my own company and say Richard sent them, it's because if there is an issue I want the person on the phone to know to reach out to me so I can make sure it's taken care of in the correct way.

 

[Bob B]

Ray posted a video in my opinion referring to this thread that you guys may want to see:

So I responded to the youtube video with this comment:

If anyone disagrees with me let me know. I deal with at least 30+ of these companies constantly, so I think this information is relevant and helpful.

Personally I like working with the Chinese. The Americans are worse. They will sweet talk you till you make a review video saying their product is garbage, then instantly become angry and hate you.

If you bash a Chinese product, they say "sorry sorry, we will fix it now". And sure enough, they do. The Americans take a year or more to update their products. It's pretty silly. I'm sure you guys know who I'm talking about.

I think there are understandably 2 different points of view here .... If I had a YouTube channel where my credibility for doing 100% unbiased reviews was critical to the success of the channel .... I would have Will's perspective.

As it is, however, I 100% agree with Ray's view for the situation most of us are in.
For the last 20 years of my career, I worked extensively with other contractors ..... there were several of those contractors that overall were untrustworthy, but it was necessary to work with them to complete the contract in a bid a spec environment. Some of these contractors would stab you in the back in a second if it would help their bottom line. Over the course of a number of years, I found individuals within most of those companies who I could trust and they trusted me. We worked together from job to job and I would be happy to see them show up at a new job site. It is hard to describe how much these relationships helped everyone involved and resulted in an overall better outcome for the customer who was employing us.
Those kind of relationships have helped me in a large variety of consumer experiences .... things like auto repair which is another potential mine field. Once I find a reliable trustworthy provider, I will support them with my business even though it may cost me a little more .... within reason.
I can't imagine another way.

I have no desire to have my own YouTube channel or do product reviews for others .... I am just a consumer of the products we discuss on this channel and have extensive knowledge of electronics and control systems which allows me to help someone else from time to time.

 

[WYtreasure]

My view on modrrating is this...

What I post in the forum has NOTHING to do with my status as a mod.

Agree, disagree, insult whatever. Zero topic posts from me are moderator related.

My mod posts are in private message.
That way, anybody can feel comfortable disagreeing with me no punishment will be forthcoming.

Heck, I can be a jerk sometimes... I get mad, I lean one way or the other on tons of topics... I have seen what happens when moderation dips into personal views... it ain't pretty...

Cool,
If I am going to get my butt chewed, I don't want everybody and their brother knowing about it.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Oh sure but I want to judge the company as a whole. The only reason these reps work so hard to push sales is because of their comission. They are females acting friendly for a reason. And they are making a ton of cash in the process.

There is nothing special about a sales rep here. And if their other sales reps are bad, we should mention that as well. I highly doubt anyone will have a bad experience with a sales rep from any of these companies. All they do is take your credit card information and ask where to ship it.

Oh my god...say it aint so! you mena those women who send me photos (of sexy batteries) only want my money? Good lord folks am I the only person who has actually visited the PI, thailand or China?