Renogy DCC30S/DCC50S 12V 30A/50A DUAL INPUT DC-DC ON-BOARD BATTERY CHARGER WITH MPPT
- Thread starter Arbee
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IMHO @stinky, and I believe @mkaye concurred above, the primary issue here is the importance of hooking up a single power source to the PV terminal of the DCC50/30S at any one time, not so much that hooking up the inverter/charger that @nwillits refers to, to the PV input of the DCC50/30S, in isolation, is necessarily is a bad thing.
That said, hooking such a inverter/charger up directly to a house battery's terminals seems plausible, with the one minor downside of the inverter/charger's power, as discussed prior, never trickle charging the starter battery FWIW. It's not as if the DCC50/30S though won't, powered by solar, and seeing a charged house battery (care of the inverter/charger) redirect power to trickle charge the starter battery if that starter battery is in need of power as defined in the DCC50/30S owner's manual.
To use your verbiage, the AC output of the inverter is, well, DC current, at a voltage well within range of the DCC50/30S, and the DCC50/30S should have no problem, from the perspective of amperage, being paired with an inverter like the one that @nwillitts references, given that its (the inverter/charger) *ability* to deliver greater amperage than the DCC50/30S may need, or particularly in the case of the DCC30S (30 amp) is capable of even using, is fine. Again, not to "beat a dead horse" but amps are best conceptualize as being "delivered upon request" rather than shoved down an appliance like the DCC50/30S metaphorical throat.
Of course with your use of a manual switch like the one discussed early, where the "1&2" setting is avoided on the switch, I believe you'll be fine.
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No, giving up isn't the solution if you have solid and safe experience to clearly share. We benefit from this forum and we contribute meaningful and reasonably understandable content to this forum. That's what its all about.
Instead, follow these steps.
1) Write in full sentences.
2) Proofread. Anytime you use a word like "it" make sure that it is extremely clear what "it" is. We often talk about several components of a solar system in the same post. Make sure the reader knows what you are talking about.
That said, nobody should be here to criticize a situation where anyone accidentally uses the word "there" when "their" was indicated. It would be offensively pedantic to point such things out, and we all deserve better treatment.
3) Don't assume anyone can read your mind. Spell things out. Leave no "stone" unturned. One of my favorite sayings is "explain things so a 3rd grader could understand them." Better to spell out the obvious than assume it so.
4) This forum is not about cooking---not that there is anything wrong with such forums or do I wish to disparage them (I cook.) My point is that for the most part, the worst outcome from an unclear recipe is unpalatable but otherwise non-deadly food that gets trashed. But this forum deals with electricity, an enormously capable thing, that in the wrong hands, can kill you. This forum, if I can make an analogy to a cooking forum is a "Puffer Fish" recipe. Prepare Puffer Fish incorrectly and its neurotoxics, no joke, can kill you.
So you're taking 120VAC from your inverter and feeding to the PV+ terminal of the Renogy. The Renogy then turns it into DC and uses it to charge your battery. The battery that is feeding your inverter. In like a circular motion. Is that what you're doing?? Maybe missed something.
?
what the hell.no.not at all.
solar panels on roof of van feeds the pv in.
why would i feed the 110 out to the pv?
what is wrong with you?
Sure sounds like what you've been saying. It's why everyone is questioning you're sanity.
I think I'm getting it now. Maybe I'm the only one who mistook you in that way. When you said you hooked your inverter to the PV+ in my language that sounded like the inverter output to the MPPT input. If I had been saying what I think you meant I would have said the other way around = I hooked the PV+ to the inverter. If you had said it that way I would have assumed your inverter was getting DC directly from your panels. Bypassing the MPPT. Am I getting warmer?
@nwillitts : a favor : stop “talking” ...
“talking” being the best word I can find here to describe your communication-like dribble.
Your words can’t be understood in a world where 100% understanding of what you’re doing, the order you doing it in, and why can literally equate to the difference between a project that goes as planned and one that not only fails to work, but does so in a way that is potentially dangerous to its assembler.
“talking” being the best word I can find here to describe your communication-like dribble.
Your words can’t be understood in a world where 100% understanding of what you’re doing, the order you doing it in, and why can literally equate to the difference between a project that goes as planned and one that not only fails to work, but does so in a way that is potentially dangerous to its assembler.
no way are you the only one having a hard time following. @nwillitts : a few minutes with you and phonetics Professor Henry Higgins from the musical My Fair Lady would begin sounding like the actor Benicio del Toro playing a role—Marlon Brando as Godfather is you prefer.
Yeah @stinky when one someone says that they hooked up their inverter up to the PV+ input reasonable people conclude just as you did.
@nwillits: “you have an inverter, not a charger? Really that’s the important part?”
Is this device then not for charging your house battery?
Way to focus on the important stuff. Tell me, had you been in the theater when Lincoln was assassinated and had accesss to his wife would you have commented, “gee. Sorry Mrs. Lincoln that your husband’s brains soiled your new dress, but tell me, what did you think of the play?”
That's why I thought he must have an inverter/charger. It was like he was saying 'I hooked the truck up to the wagon'. It's not wrong but the normal way to say it would be 'hook the wagon to the truck'. Adds up to the same thing. If I guessed right and he is bypassing the MPPT isn't that a problem? I haven't read specs but I don't think my inverter would like the wild voltage swings. And then what, the battery is also powering the inverter? Otherwise he has no AC when the sun goes down. I'm confused. It's not the first time.
@stinky: I'll focus on your questions rather than additionally ganging up on the aforementioned poster. My comments are not meant to him/her as hate speech, worse, criticize someone where English may not be a first language. Such attributes don't define a person's worth.
Rather, my comments are simply meant to convey that people should clearly articulate answers only if they know, and admit what they don't know. And if they can't do that, they should limit their place here to reading, or asking clear questions.
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So you are interested in the implications of bypassing "the MPPT" as you put it. Not to be pedantic, but to raise a point so you will understand, bypassing JUST the MPPT is more about missing out on some cool tech than a contraindication. I'll explain below.
Now, if, by "the MPPT" you mean he is bypassing not only the MPPT but the intelligence of the DCC50/30S: that point is well taken and also discussed below.
@@@@@
Perhaps this may be a good point to explain things you may already know if others don't. There are two basic types of solar controllers: PWM (pulse width modulating) and MPPT (maximum power point tracking.) PWM is the simpler, cheaper, and less efficient technology. Before getting into how they work, lets talk about "power."
Power, usually but not always, is measured in watts, and is defined as volts multiplied by amps. (I bet you knew that.) An MPPT controller can take the power (watts) coming off a solar panel (or array of panels) and change the volts or amps. Any amount (minimal losses notwithstanding in doing so) by which an MPPT controller, say, ups (or lowers) voltage it must lower (up) amps by the same amount, keeping power constant, as we cannot change power levels here without suspending some of Newton's laws.
The advantage of this ability to manipulate volts and amps is that it can find an ideal combination that serves the charging needs of the house battery at any one particular point in its charging. The device, as its name describes, maximizes (not changes) the power point through adjustment to volts and amps.
PWM controllers can't do this manipulation. Any voltage reductions they must do to accommodate, say, less voltage needs by the battery, are simply given off as heat. This isn't bad per se, it just usually equates to longer charge times.
So bypassing the MPPT has us missing out on these features. But of course not connecting the inverter/charger to the PC+ input causes us to bypass the DCC50/30S' battery charging intelligence. Let's look at what might happen if that happened.
In my situation, if I hooked up an inverter/charger directly to my house battery, bypassing the DCC50/30S, because my battery is a LiFePO4 type with its own built in BMS (battery monitoring system) it does not need the intelligence of the circuitry in the DCC50/30S to manage its charge. If I didn't have a battery with a BMS then hooking up a dumb inverter/charger to the battery might, at the very worst end of things, damage the battery, and at the very best of things, not optimize the battery's power or life. Additionally, as stated prior, this is a situation where the inverter charger cannot ever, under any circumstance, trickle charge the starter battery: for whatever that is worth to each person and their setup.
So putting the charger/inverter on the PV+ terminal allows you to take advantage of the MPPT tech discussed above AND the DCC50/30S' intelligence in charging your house battery: the DCC50/30S presumptively set to your house battery type. But I cannot recommend concurrently hooking up solar power to the PV+.
And while hooking up a charger/inverter to the house battery directly does permit concurrent power from solar on the PV+ input, you will deal with the potential downsides I discuss above.
Electric, like life itself, is a series of tradeoffs that to some (but by no means a complete) extent money can address.
- I wasn't trying to run the dude down either. Just trying to untangle the wording.@stinky: I'll focus on your questions rather than additionally ganging up on the aforementioned poster. My comments are not meant to him/her as hate speech, worse, criticize someone where English may not be a first language. Such attributes don't define a person's worth.
Rather, my comments are simply meant to convey that people should clearly articulate answers only if they know, and admit what they don't know. And if they can't do that, they should limit their place here to reading, or asking clear questions.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
So you are interested in the implications of bypassing "the MPPT" as you put it. Not to be pedantic, but to raise a point so you will understand, bypassing JUST the MPPT is more about missing out on some cool tech than a contraindication. I'll explain below.
Now, if, by "the MPPT" you mean he is bypassing not only the MPPT but the intelligence of the DCC50/30S: that point is well taken and also discussed below.
@@@@@
Perhaps this may be a good point to explain things you may already know if others don't. There are two basic types of solar controllers: PWM (pulse width modulating) and MPPT (maximum power point tracking.) PWM is the simpler, cheaper, and less efficient technology. Before getting into how they work, lets talk about "power."
Power, usually but not always, is measured in watts, and is defined as volts multiplied by amps. (I bet you knew that.) An MPPT controller can take the power (watts) coming off a solar panel (or array of panels) and change the volts or amps. Any amount (minimal losses notwithstanding in doing so) by which an MPPT controller, say, ups (or lowers) voltage it must lower (up) amps by the same amount, keeping power constant, as we cannot change power levels here without suspending some of Newton's laws.
The advantage of this ability to manipulate volts and amps is that it can find an ideal combination that serves the charging needs of the house battery at any one particular point in its charging. The device, as its name describes, maximizes (not changes) the power point through adjustment to volts and amps.
PWM controllers can't do this manipulation. Any voltage reductions they must do to accommodate, say, less voltage needs by the battery, are simply given off as heat. This isn't bad per se, it just usually equates to longer charge times.
So bypassing the MPPT has us missing out on these features. But of course not connecting the inverter/charger to the PC+ input causes us to bypass the DCC50/30S' battery charging intelligence. Let's look at what might happen if that happened.
In my situation, if I hooked up an inverter/charger directly to my house battery, bypassing the DCC50/30S, because my battery is a LiFePO4 type with its own built in BMS (battery monitoring system) it does not need the intelligence of the circuitry in the DCC50/30S to manage its charge. If I didn't have a battery with a BMS then hooking up a dumb inverter/charger to the battery might, at the very worst end of things, damage the battery, and at the very best of things, not optimize the battery's power or life. Additionally, as stated prior, this is a situation where the inverter charger cannot ever, under any circumstance, trickle charge the starter battery: for whatever that is worth to each person and their setup.
So putting the charger/inverter on the PV+ terminal allows you to take advantage of the MPPT tech discussed above AND the DCC50/30S' intelligence in charging your house battery: the DCC50/30S presumptively set to your house battery type. But I cannot recommend concurrently hooking up solar power to the PV+.
And while hooking up a charger/inverter to the house battery directly does permit concurrent power from solar on the PV+ input, you will deal with the potential downsides I discuss above.
Electric, like life itself, is a series of tradeoffs that to some (but by no means a complete) extent money can address.
- Okay, I got some of that. Maybe most. One thing stuck out - " because my battery is a LiFePO4 type with its own built in BMS (battery monitoring system) it does not need the intelligence of the circuitry in the DCC50/30S to manage its charge." - That's interesting. I wouldn't put you in the position of giving an unequivocal yes or no answer, or sending you off to research my particular batteries, but potentially, maybe, I could go straight to my batteries with the output of my charger or panels if there was some ad hoc advantage? So I could charge at 55A instead of 30A if I was in a hurry? Or it the MPPT crapped out. And if @nwillitts has batteries with suitable BMS then he is okay with bypassing the MPPT? I'll have to think that through as I might want to make some provision for doing such things in my wiring. I would quiz my battery mfg first as to the ability of the BMS to deal with non - MPPT current.
how about this for plain language-
YOU ARE A MORON.
is that clear enough for you,dumbass?
John Frum
Tell me your problems
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2019
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- 15,233
At least 4 options.
1 Click on the user and you will then have an option to ignore that particular user
2 On the top right corner of the thread there is and option to Unwatch.
3 Just don't respond.
4 Bury the hatchet, that actually does happen on this forum.
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