Resolved (Ecoworthy Replaced all 4 of the batteries)

[BarracudaBob]

It would be nice if we could get them to stop lumping all lithium chemistries together when discussing them and talking about regulations. They are not all the same.

I totally agree. Even Tesla is talking LPF now. I am getting tired of lugging FLA and AGM batteries for others. When they look at all the red tape for "Li" and building modification it is getting crazy. Agreed that many of the DIY systems need to improve things for safety but if you leave it up to "the man" you won't be able to have more than 20K, Outside only, Positive outside ventilation environmental systems (HVAC), ect.. Next they will be treating it like explosives with pored concrete walls and a roof made to blast off. Give them on cell they'll take the rack

 

[mrzed001]

The balance cable is the fuse

Not quite
If a bigger resistant short occurs that limits the Amps to like 20A or 200A ... then the cable will glow, burn everything near it.
Not sure but it could have happened here.
The cells top is burned where the balance cable was burned.
So this cable can overheat the cell and be the cause of its failure.
Not ideal

 

[mrzed001]

A lot of commercial equipment I see uses the Pico Fuse on PCB or on the wire under heat shrink. Just a nick on a balance wire and it is all over.

Breaking Capacity 300A ... thats not enough even for a lead acid battery :D

 

[mrzed001]

I have this type of fuse on the main + terminal on my system. 4 chins 12.8v 200ah wired in series. I do not have any fuses between each of the batteries. Should I places fuses between each 12.8v battery? Should I switch the main fuse to another type?

This happily runs my offgrid log cabin that I built/wired/plumbed and live.

All 4 of these batteries are sitting on bare concrete in my underground basement that stays at ~50 F.

In this case a CLASS-T fuse is recommended close to the main terminal.

 

[Boron]

In this case a CLASS-T fuse is recommended close to the main terminal.

In the EU you would use an NH type fuse. Issue with Class T is very high cost and availability

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

In the EU you would use an NH type fuse. Issue with Class T is very high cost and availability

Or BS 88 ones in the UK (also available in the EU).

 

[BarracudaBob]

Breaking Capacity 300A ... thats not enough even for a lead acid battery :D

Intended for the balance leads

 

[Boron]

Or BS 88 ones in the UK (also available in the EU).

Not so easy to find a dc rated bs88 fuse, they all jumped on the band wagon and called them "Solar" fuses 10X price. if you find a source at a sensible price pls post here for everyone. I like my 3 inch wire strand buried in sand.

OBTW perhaps someone would like to try my arc flash extinguisher - get a plant spray mister fill with water then squirt it at a full blown continuous arc. I tried to interest welders but they dont have imagination.

Its my contention that the water mist immediately takes away the heat from the arc - so poof. Only for LV <50dc of course. Might save a switchboard if one of those mickey mouse mcb goes ape. NOT to be used anywhere near MAINS equipment - like an inverter

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Not so easy to find a dc rated bs88 fuse

LET series, e.g.:

125LET BUSSMANN - Fuse: fuse | 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET | TME - Electronic components

BUSSMANN 125LET | Fuse: fuse; 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET - This product is available in Transfer Multisort Elektronik. Check out our wide range of products.

www.tme.eu

and here:

https://fi.farnell.com/search?st=LET

 

[Boron]

LET series, e.g.:

125LET BUSSMANN - Fuse: fuse | 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET | TME - Electronic components

BUSSMANN 125LET | Fuse: fuse; 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET - This product is available in Transfer Multisort Elektronik. Check out our wide range of products.

www.tme.eu

and here:

https://fi.farnell.com/search?st=LET

Yes indeed made in India ca £20 ea plus pnp handling £20 from Farnall for private customers. 1 piece 3" 12AWG wire 80mm long $ 0.02c in a trough of sand - rewireable. What I do in my shed but its your choice of course. Just to put the fox in the henhouse - millions of these in use all over the far east since prewar design from Siemens - very solid, not mickey mouse, Ive got some, but if you want to use them I have some caveats btw it contains a strip fuse inside as well - great solid basic design in copper plated brass

OBTW the one below is even better (no fuse), 60A just short across the handle with a solid copper link, then you have a single pole switch with twice the separation and probably big enough for 48Vdc panels. I would certainly give it a try. BTW always keep a water flower spritzer bottle handy in case an arc sustains, and wear goggle and gloves in case a flash shoots out on separation - standar dc practice

 

[BarracudaBob]

Not so easy to find a dc rated bs88 fuse, they all jumped on the band wagon and called them "Solar" fuses 10X price. if you find a source at a sensible price pls post here for everyone. I like my 3 inch wire strand buried in sand.

OBTW perhaps someone would like to try my arc flash extinguisher - get a plant spray mister fill with water then squirt it at a full blown continuous arc. I tried to interest welders but they dont have imagination.

Its my contention that the water mist immediately takes away the heat from the arc - so poof. Only for LV <50dc of course. Might save a switchboard if one of those mickey mouse mcb goes ape. NOT to be used anywhere near MAINS equipment - like an inverter

Non conductive distilled or de-ionized water only. Piping must be oxygen & contaminant free and chilled....

 

[robbob2112]

Non conductive distilled or de-ionized water only. Piping must be oxygen & contaminant free and chilled....

And no metal particles in the air or flying around or on any surface to get into the water and give you a shock. Dumb idea,it might extinguish the arc momentarily only to flair back up again with a jet of steam and who knows what.

 

[BarracudaBob]

And no metal particles in the air or flying around or on any surface to get into the water and give you a shock. Dumb idea,it might extinguish the arc momentarily only to flair back up again with a jet of steam and who knows what.

Automatic fire extinguisher

 

[robbob2112]

I'll take a fuse of known amp and AIC rating over a mist of water or an extinguisher any day of the week. Pop a fuse figure out why and replace it. Put extinguisher chemicals or water on it and deal with cleanup in addition to the original problem.

 

[mrzed001]

In the EU you would use an NH type fuse. Issue with Class T is very high cost and availability

NH gG is a slow fuse. Excellent, but slow. CLASS-T is much faster.
There are NH gBat version fuses. A bit more expensive then gG but not really available.

 

[mrzed001]

LET series, e.g.:

125LET BUSSMANN - Fuse: fuse | 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET | TME - Electronic components

BUSSMANN 125LET | Fuse: fuse; 125A; 240VAC; 150VDC; ceramic,industrial; LET - This product is available in Transfer Multisort Elektronik. Check out our wide range of products.

www.tme.eu

and here:

https://fi.farnell.com/search?st=LET

Even started a thread searching for a CLASS-T like fuse holder for these British fuses :D
No luck so far.

Thread 'Fuse holder for BMC 17.4mm x 42mm fuse'

Jul 13, 2024

I am searching for a cheaper fuse for battery than Class T.

Have found these cheap British BMC fuses

https://uk.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/mp001925/power-fuse-180a-240vac-17-4mm/dp/3290018

It seems good.
Someone knows a (closed) fuse holder for these fuses ?

• mrzed001
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Over Current Protection Devices

 

[Boron]

Even started a thread searching for a CLASS-T like fuse holder for these British fuses :D
No luck so far.

Thread 'Fuse holder for BMC 17.4mm x 42mm fuse'

Jul 13, 2024

I am searching for a cheaper fuse for battery than Class T.

Have found these cheap British BMC fuses

https://uk.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/mp001925/power-fuse-180a-240vac-17-4mm/dp/3290018

It seems good.
Someone knows a (closed) fuse holder for these fuses ?

• mrzed001
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Over Current Protection Devices

Try some old bakelite domino pieces, I got a box for £5 very useful to mount electrics, doesnt melts like cheap pvc. drill some holes, that will make a non flammable base, use some M6 of OBA brass screws, make up a simple cover say out of some ceramic fibre insulation. This stuff is brilliant

 

[robbob2112]

NH gG is a slow fuse. Excellent, but slow. CLASS-T is much faster.
There are NH gBat version fuses. A bit more expensive then gG but not really available.

NH aR fuses -- just be careful to get the DC rated ones. Some are AC only and others are AC/DC. Typically the DC rating is around 1/2 the AC rating. High speed, very high AIC around 50ka with a time curve similar to the class T in the US.

There are many that don't list DC and you can't trust ant that don't explicitly state DC.

 

[astralography]

Personally I don't trust big battery storage options for safety reasons. I had a 2005 Prius catch fire while I was driving. Not cool.
Learned my lesson there. Sure, it's all good.... until it's not.

I'm working on a hybrid system at my home that just gives me simple basic backup that will be totally off grid for internet, TV, Fridge/Freezer, pool pump. The rest (wall sockets etc) I'll just use the grid. Panels on roof are just grid feeders to lower monthly bills or zero out on occasion. We have 500 gallon propane for cooking so no issue there.

 

[BigGun]

You can say that about everything. Gas cars catch fire all the time. Where I grew up several houses blew up because of natural gas leaks.

 

[Simersam2004]

Thanks to everyone for the help, the replacement batteries came today. Ecoworthy definingly went above and beyond by replacing all 4 batteries and I'm sure Will's email had nothing to do with it but who can say.
I took a look under the cover of each one and all the connections seem to be fine and everything looks normal.

 

[JoeHam]

Thanks to everyone for the help, the replacement batteries came today. Ecoworthy definingly went above and beyond by replacing all 4 batteries and I'm sure Will's email had nothing to do with it but who can say.

I am hoping they will replace the two I have and now worry about.

I’ve sent them an email and will report back what I hear.

 

[BigGun]

I would check all the cells for balance. Then I would charge each one individually and see how balanced they stay. The ones I have/had (sent 2 back) all OVP shutoff before full charge

 

[seneysolar]

View attachment 246390

Are those balance wires ran through holes in the metal bar without protection? Sitting still might be ok, but hopefully nobody puts that in an RV. Wouldn't be hard to put some grommets in there.

 

[Boron]

Personally I don't trust big battery storage options for safety reasons. I had a 2005 Prius catch fire while I was driving. Not cool.
Learned my lesson there. Sure, it's all good.... until it's not.

I'm working on a hybrid system at my home that just gives me simple basic backup that will be totally off grid for internet, TV, Fridge/Freezer, pool pump. The rest (wall sockets etc) I'll just use the grid. Panels on roof are just grid feeders to lower monthly bills or zero out on occasion. We have 500 gallon propane for cooking so no issue there.

Prius Hybrid NiMH in steel - supposed to be a bomb proof chemistry. Can you say what caused the fire? External wiring fault?

Are those balance wires ran through holes in the metal bar without protection? Sitting still might be ok, but hopefully nobody puts that in an RV. Wouldn't be hard to put some grommets in there.

Quite right a common mistake, thread some heat shrink on all of them