Rules for mounting panels in Arizona?

[two_wheeled]

Hello, this is my first post. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Would appreciate advice from people with experience in my area.
I've been wanting to build a relatively small off-grid system that will run a handful of items 24x7 in order to 1) shed some items from APS and bring my bill down and 2) provide backup power for critical stuff if we ever had an extended outage. I admit that power outages are very rare in my area, but we never know what the future holds right?

My plan was to build a system in my back yard that would provide 24x7 power for a koi pond and some other miscellaneous stuff. Total continuous load is currently between 800-1400W. None of this needs to be wired into the house or utility.

I wanted to mount some solar panels on top of my back patio because I have lots of flat roof space that is easy to access. So here's my question:
What are the rules for installing DIY solar panels? Is a permit required?
I had been told that a permit was NOT required for DIY, but then I searched and found this. https://www.maricopa.gov/1923/Go-Solar-for-Residential-Service

I don't have space for a ground installation. The patio roof is my desired location. Would appreciate advice from any locals who have done this. I'm not trying to skirt any rules, but I'm unclear what the actual rules are for a small DIY system. The city and county are using google images to determine when buildings change and I don't want to become a target.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

An UNenclosed roof like a patio, carport, etc., is classified as a ground mount and not subject to roof mounting requirements. Roof mounting requirements stem from NFPA requirements for firefighter operations on a roof. For an unenclosed structure, roof operations aren't necessary.

You also want to check for city of Phoenix requirements.

Arizona Solar Center - phoenix-fire-dept-now-requires-a-separate-permit-for-solar-systems-and-batteries

Promoting the use of solar energy in Arizona and everywhere!

azsolarcenter.org

 

[chrisski]

My plan was to build a system in my back yard that would provide 24x7 power for a koi pond and some other miscellaneous stuff. Total continuous load is currently between 800-1400W. None of this needs to be wired into the house or utility.

That is quite a load. I estimate a 40 kWh battery pack and around 15 kW solar to provide reliable off grid power the 300 days a year Phoenix is Sunny.

The 65 days there’s clouds, you will have some power and may last a cloudy day, but may not.

Be better to run some calculations in an off grid calculator like on my signature block to see how big the roof needs to be to hold the panels.

The day I’d recommend planning for is Christmas when the days are shortest and the sun is lowest, and that may be the worst production month of the year.

 

[two_wheeled]

Well, that's a bummer. I built a system on my RV years ago and it's been working great for years now. I was hoping to build another DIY system to offset some of my long-term home utility costs, and battery prices right now are really enticing, but the cost and hassle of these permits pretty much kills it.

 

[chrisski]

I recently installed solar on my house and I considered doing the build myself. I figured it’d take me two years to do correctly.

A lot goes into design approval inspection and commissioning that drove me away from it.

 

[BatteryBuff]

Hello, this is my first post. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Would appreciate advice from people with experience in my area.
I've been wanting to build a relatively small off-grid system that will run a handful of items 24x7 in order to 1) shed some items from APS and bring my bill down and 2) provide backup power for critical stuff if we ever had an extended outage. I admit that power outages are very rare in my area, but we never know what the future holds right?

My plan was to build a system in my back yard that would provide 24x7 power for a koi pond and some other miscellaneous stuff. Total continuous load is currently between 800-1400W. None of this needs to be wired into the house or utility.

I wanted to mount some solar panels on top of my back patio because I have lots of flat roof space that is easy to access. So here's my question:
What are the rules for installing DIY solar panels? Is a permit required?
I had been told that a permit was NOT required for DIY, but then I searched and found this. https://www.maricopa.gov/1923/Go-Solar-for-Residential-Service

I don't have space for a ground installation. The patio roof is my desired location. Would appreciate advice from any locals who have done this. I'm not trying to skirt any rules, but I'm unclear what the actual rules are for a small DIY system. The city and county are using google images to determine when buildings change and I don't want to become a target.

That power consumption is going to drive you to an expensive system. Could the pond pump only run during the day? That would greatly simplify your system.

As a rule of thumb, your average daily watts x10 is a solar array power in Watts and x100 is your battery capacity to operate without sun for almost 4 days.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

That power consumption is going to drive you to an expensive system. Could the pond pump only run during the day? That would greatly simplify your system.

As a rule of thumb, your average daily watts x10 is a solar array power in Watts and x100 is your battery capacity to operate without sun for almost 4 days.

Hmmm... gotta run this through for myself...

30kWh/day average U.S. household.

Average daily watts: 30kWh/24h = 1250W average

That yields a 12500W array, which can typically generate about 2X the 30kWh

1250W * 100 = 125kWh, which is correctly about 4 days of backup.

With such a large battery, the "oversize" array makes sense because you have to overproduce to get the 4 days consumed backup recovered.

Never seen this before. It's a bit overkill when you consider the cost of the battery for 4 days worth of backup, but the numbers work.

 

[BatteryBuff]

Hmmm... gotta run this through for myself...

30kWh/day average U.S. household.

Average daily watts: 30kWh/24h = 1250W average

That yields a 12500W array, which can typically generate about 2X the 30kWh

1250W * 100 = 125kWh, which is correctly about 4 days of backup.

With such a large battery, the "oversize" array makes sense because you have to overproduce to get the 4 days consumed backup recovered.

Never seen this before. It's a bit overkill when you consider the cost of the battery for 4 days worth of backup, but the numbers work.

If you are willing to have occasional power outages for your pond, you can get by with a significantly smaller battery.

 

[two_wheeled]

Actually, the pond is just a small part of it. My pond pump only uses ~150 watts. It's already extremely efficient relative to other pond equipment, so I can't reduce that load. That pump is the only thing that has to run 24x7x365. I have other stuff turning on and off throughout the day on timers, but I thought it was sensible to have extra capacity in mind so I could add on a bunch of other things that would add up to a minimum of 800 watts, up to 1400, just because I figured the system would be fairly easy to build. But if I can't mount a handful of solar panels on my un-enclosed patio roof myself without drawing up plans and getting expensive permits, well, I'm losing motivation. I may be missing something but hey that's why I posted here.
See all this wasted roof space?

 

[chrisski]

. But if I can't mount a handful of solar panels on my un-enclosed patio roof myself without drawing up plans and getting expensive permits, well, I'm losing motivation.

I'm wondering what the shade looks like in the winter when the sun is low to the ground. If that part of the roof is a flat roof like mine, then there may be a 1' wall around it which shades panels.

Being in the Phoenix area in a house that's on land as small as yours, IMO, unless the panels are put on the sloped roof, then the project is more trouble than its worth.