schmism
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Ryobi Zero-Turn Mower SLA to LiFePo4 Conversion - (Updated - Build Complete With Pics!)
- Thread starter AMDPower
- Start date
Kavalliero
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- Aug 18, 2022
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Like many people here I joined the site for this very topic. So thanks again for AMDPower kicking off this question and the work of the other contributors such as Ultrasoundjelly, Rio, bobbie_ohio, Jakeman, and others. The battery issue was top of my mind back in 2020 when deciding to go with an electric riding mower with limited options on the market at that time. I certainly had the concerns with the Ryobi RY48ZTR100 using the SLA batteries vs lithium, and my real world use mirrors others like the horrible meter never reading corrrectly and shorter runtime. However, I figured I could buy and replace the Ryobi twice over before I was even at the starter price of something lithum from Greenworks or the uber pricey Green Machine. It is great to see Ryobi and other manufacturers switching over to lithium solutions, but it looks like most have taken the same path as their power tools using proprietary battery packs vs drop-in form factors. Of course I can appreciate the flip side that forcing use of their own packs helps control standards and matching battery specs. Pros and cons I guess. Fortunately, I was able to get about 2 years of cuts out of the original batteries here in the hot Florida summers which is not to kind on any battery, but at least I don't have the freezing temps to deal with.
I have about another 9 months of warranty on the mower, but I don't really have the means to easily take it to a Ryobi repair shop if something breaks which sorta makes that pointless. I am likewise done with the junk SLA batteries. However, like many here I'm not looking to get deep into building my own packs vs leveraging the least intrusive drop-in solution in case I need to "rollback" to the SLA config if I need to sell the unit for some reason.
I already picked up the Camway meter to attach. I am likely to go with the latest 12v 100Ah Ampere Time batteries off of amazon even though the CHINS seems to be basically built about the same.
Where I ran afoul is making a bad decision to use a variable voltage Beleeb charger from Amazon (link) which said it would work with SLA/AGM and LiFePo4. I had the idea that I may be able to restore the batteries for more life, and if not have a flexible unit to charge and balance new LiFePo4 drop-ins. Unfortunately there is nothing that you set on the charger to distiguish the charging profiles and I doubt it works like they say for Lithium. However, it may not be any worse than trying to use the Delta-Q SC-48 charger that came with the mower.
The second problem was that I also purchased Beleeb's Ezgo tri pin connector to use with their charger thinking that I could reuse the mower charge port without cutting off and splicing my original charge cable (again for warranty/resell related issues). I knew I would have to bypass the lockout switch at some point for easy hookup to a charger. Well being a dummy I hooked up the Beleeb connector and no charge light indicators showed up. I plugged in my original SC-48 connector and the charge port LED lights up. I retry the connection on the Beleeb and nothing happens. I'm figuring it is the lack of the lockout pin being active preventing the LED from lighting. I retry the SC-48 and now nothing works there either. The mower won't even turn on now. No clicks or "thuds" from the lockout relay either. Again, this is just with the SLA batteries installed. Last night I checked the wiring of both charger plugs and discovered that the Beleeb pos and neg wiring are actually reversed polarity from the actual ezgo charger wiring on the original SC-48 charger. So I'm not sure if I shorted the charger, the batteries, or something else. It could also be that the old SLA batteries (which were run down anyways after my last mow) have now dropped below adequate charge which is why nothing lights up on the SC-48 anymore. More troubleshooting and testing on the electrical before I invest in modding the mower and investing in batteries. I'm going to use the electrical system troubleshooting guide kindly posted earlier on the thread.
My questions to the group are now the following:
1. Does anyone have any clear pictures of how they wired/connected the lockout wire to the positive terminal (I'm assuming the lead pos terminal was used)? I'm assuming that only the blue wire needs to be cut from the old tri-pin charge connector, a 5/16" ring crimped and attached to the terminal is the suggested approach? I see this being discussed but don't see any pictures, especially from the folks that did the drop-on approach. This of course assumes that down the road I just want to use a properly wired EZGo plug from a new LifePo charger to the existing mower charge port.
2. If I don't bypass the the lockout pin, has anyone found and used a 48v lifepo4 charger with an ezgo tripin connector? I have found a couple of products out there that have done this for golf carts but they seem really expensive.
3. If I don't want to bypass the lockout but still want to use a lifepo4 charger, it seems like the working solution is to wire everything the same as it came from the factory, but charging would require lifting the seat, disconnecting the anderson plug from the mower charger port and then connecting battery anderson plug to an anderson connection coming directly from my lifepo charger. Certainly not as elegant as USJ's 3D printed adapter, but seems the most practical.
4. All the notes I have seen said to not use the orignal SLA SC-48 charger and rely on the BMS. While the original charger approach seems to work for many here without issues that over time it will degrade the LiFePo4. Has anyone using the original charger with drop-in approach seen any degrading issues with their LiFePo batteries using this most simple approach?
Sorry for the length. Insights are appreciated. Trying to move forward one way or another since my mower is now 100% out of commission which is going to make mowing a real beast the more time that passes.
I have about another 9 months of warranty on the mower, but I don't really have the means to easily take it to a Ryobi repair shop if something breaks which sorta makes that pointless. I am likewise done with the junk SLA batteries. However, like many here I'm not looking to get deep into building my own packs vs leveraging the least intrusive drop-in solution in case I need to "rollback" to the SLA config if I need to sell the unit for some reason.
I already picked up the Camway meter to attach. I am likely to go with the latest 12v 100Ah Ampere Time batteries off of amazon even though the CHINS seems to be basically built about the same.
Where I ran afoul is making a bad decision to use a variable voltage Beleeb charger from Amazon (link) which said it would work with SLA/AGM and LiFePo4. I had the idea that I may be able to restore the batteries for more life, and if not have a flexible unit to charge and balance new LiFePo4 drop-ins. Unfortunately there is nothing that you set on the charger to distiguish the charging profiles and I doubt it works like they say for Lithium. However, it may not be any worse than trying to use the Delta-Q SC-48 charger that came with the mower.
The second problem was that I also purchased Beleeb's Ezgo tri pin connector to use with their charger thinking that I could reuse the mower charge port without cutting off and splicing my original charge cable (again for warranty/resell related issues). I knew I would have to bypass the lockout switch at some point for easy hookup to a charger. Well being a dummy I hooked up the Beleeb connector and no charge light indicators showed up. I plugged in my original SC-48 connector and the charge port LED lights up. I retry the connection on the Beleeb and nothing happens. I'm figuring it is the lack of the lockout pin being active preventing the LED from lighting. I retry the SC-48 and now nothing works there either. The mower won't even turn on now. No clicks or "thuds" from the lockout relay either. Again, this is just with the SLA batteries installed. Last night I checked the wiring of both charger plugs and discovered that the Beleeb pos and neg wiring are actually reversed polarity from the actual ezgo charger wiring on the original SC-48 charger. So I'm not sure if I shorted the charger, the batteries, or something else. It could also be that the old SLA batteries (which were run down anyways after my last mow) have now dropped below adequate charge which is why nothing lights up on the SC-48 anymore. More troubleshooting and testing on the electrical before I invest in modding the mower and investing in batteries. I'm going to use the electrical system troubleshooting guide kindly posted earlier on the thread.
My questions to the group are now the following:
1. Does anyone have any clear pictures of how they wired/connected the lockout wire to the positive terminal (I'm assuming the lead pos terminal was used)? I'm assuming that only the blue wire needs to be cut from the old tri-pin charge connector, a 5/16" ring crimped and attached to the terminal is the suggested approach? I see this being discussed but don't see any pictures, especially from the folks that did the drop-on approach. This of course assumes that down the road I just want to use a properly wired EZGo plug from a new LifePo charger to the existing mower charge port.
2. If I don't bypass the the lockout pin, has anyone found and used a 48v lifepo4 charger with an ezgo tripin connector? I have found a couple of products out there that have done this for golf carts but they seem really expensive.
3. If I don't want to bypass the lockout but still want to use a lifepo4 charger, it seems like the working solution is to wire everything the same as it came from the factory, but charging would require lifting the seat, disconnecting the anderson plug from the mower charger port and then connecting battery anderson plug to an anderson connection coming directly from my lifepo charger. Certainly not as elegant as USJ's 3D printed adapter, but seems the most practical.
4. All the notes I have seen said to not use the orignal SLA SC-48 charger and rely on the BMS. While the original charger approach seems to work for many here without issues that over time it will degrade the LiFePo4. Has anyone using the original charger with drop-in approach seen any degrading issues with their LiFePo batteries using this most simple approach?
Sorry for the length. Insights are appreciated. Trying to move forward one way or another since my mower is now 100% out of commission which is going to make mowing a real beast the more time that passes.
New to the forum as well. I am considering doing the same. Before I start I would very much like an actual wiring diagram of the mower. There is a charging circuit lockout that will not let the mower operate with the charger connected and under some other conditions. I am considering those same batteries you linked to, but the 100 ah version. Also considering them for my solar system. If anyone knows where i can get that Ryobi wiring diagram, I would be grateful.
gwang_hoops
New Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2022
- Messages
- 21
The Ryobi RM480E facebook forum has some files
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2756962307675482/files/files
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2756962307675482/files/files
icenov
New Member
Try this:
Ryobi Zero-Turn Mower SLA to LiFePo4 Conversion - (Updated - Build Complete With Pics!)
Ok I got the bike, I measured 63V at 70% and the charger has a cutoff at 67V (printed on it), it's on the high side. But I have to confess my stupidity, I made a mistake, I'll have to clap myself for a while for plugging the positive cable into the 10 amp meter plug on my multimeter. It was...
diysolarforum.com
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"2. If I don't bypass the the lockout pin, has anyone found and used a 48v lifepo4 charger with an ezgo tripin connector? I have found a couple of products out there that have done this for golf carts but they seem really expensive."
I left the wiring as is, didn't bypass anything. I charge with either the original or a cheap lifepo4 10 amp charger. I added an Ezgo type connector to the lifepo4 charger:
Had to modify the charge port on the mower to make the new plug work. Don't know if there is an affordable plug that matches the original other than ordering one from Ryobi or Delta.
I have experienced 2 issues with my system, charging wise.
When connecting the lifepo4 charger to the charge port, there is a pretty good size arc that occurs. It is much better with the Ezgo connector than connecting with the original alligator clips.
After I left the lifepo4 charger connected overnight, the BMS tripped out twice while turning on the mower. After resetting the BMS the 3rd time, I left the key on and it worked fine. I have tried to limit the charge to approx. 80%, but I forgot that time. I have used a timer, which worked well. I never had this happen when charging below 100%
I left the wiring as is, didn't bypass anything. I charge with either the original or a cheap lifepo4 10 amp charger. I added an Ezgo type connector to the lifepo4 charger:
Amazon.com : DIYOLFALL 48 Volt Charger Receptacle and Plug for EZGO RXV Golf Cart, 3-Pin Triangle Charger Plug Handle, OEM #604321 611218 : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : DIYOLFALL 48 Volt Charger Receptacle and Plug for EZGO RXV Golf Cart, 3-Pin Triangle Charger Plug Handle, OEM #604321 611218 : Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
Had to modify the charge port on the mower to make the new plug work. Don't know if there is an affordable plug that matches the original other than ordering one from Ryobi or Delta.
I have experienced 2 issues with my system, charging wise.
When connecting the lifepo4 charger to the charge port, there is a pretty good size arc that occurs. It is much better with the Ezgo connector than connecting with the original alligator clips.
After I left the lifepo4 charger connected overnight, the BMS tripped out twice while turning on the mower. After resetting the BMS the 3rd time, I left the key on and it worked fine. I have tried to limit the charge to approx. 80%, but I forgot that time. I have used a timer, which worked well. I never had this happen when charging below 100%
Kavalliero
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2022
- Messages
- 24
Thanks Jakeman!
Just so that I'm clear, when you hooked up the EZGO connector to your lifepo4 charger you could only connect the pos and neg and left the 3rd top pin for the signal lockout unconnected? If so, there are no issues with the lockout that prevent you from turning on the mower when hooked up tot he charger. So you can charge the mower without issues, but you only lose the safety feature of the lockout.
As far as the plug goes, I haven't tried contacting Delta or Ryobi for the same charge connector. I was able to use the one from Beleeb which has a slightly different shape but fit into the Ryobi without issues. Ryobi has that special "guide" in their port that would interfere with newer connectors that have the "Y" shape molded into the handle, but this one works fine. Unfortunately as my original post said, Beleeb wired their pos and neg backwards from the EZGO wiring. Regardless, if someone is just looking for a the tri-pin connector and doesn't mind reversing the wiring I will provide the link. The Beleeb provided plug had the benefit of already having an anderson SB50 connector on the other end. It would have been great if it wasn't for them having their wiring revered! However, it may be just as easy to try to order the OEM connector from Ryobi/Delta.
Beleeb EZGO Tri-pin connector
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2PDYG3L?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
I did just find on Amazon another outfit that is selling the Tri-pin connector without the internal "Y" moulding that doesn't have any wiring installed which may better.
https://www.amazon.com/Triangle-Cha...rds=EZGO+triangle+plug&qid=1661531622&sr=8-28
You are correct, no top pin. To be honest, I never tried to turn the mower on with the charger connected. I'm not sure why anyone would need to.
It charges perfectly fine, no matter which charger I use.
The battery swap has been a real game changer. The run time is so much improved that I get tired of mowing before the battery does!
Kavalliero
New Member
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- Aug 18, 2022
- Messages
- 24
Cool. Thanks for confirming. Which LiFePo4 charger did you end up going with again?
That's the closest one I could find. Looks exactly like mine, except mine is marked 10 amp, but no model number on it. I didn't have to buy mine. when I purchased the battery I sent the Co. an email asking why a charger wasn't included. I did that because previous buyers received chargers with their batteries. They replied saying they don't include them anymore, but they'll send me one anyway. Told me it was a $120 charger. It works ok but has no special features.
Found this one, very similar:
Not sure I would've paid $120 for it when I could use the original on a timer
Kavalliero
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2022
- Messages
- 24
I appreciate the info. I'm still in troubleshooting stage with my original SLA configuration trying to understand which part of the system actually failed before I move forward with any conversion activities.
What I have discovered so far :
1. When I test the SLAs still in the mower I'm getting 49.9V when measured directly at the main battery connector. That doesn't really shock me since the SLA batteries were depleted after my last mow.
2. I get somewhere between 0-50mV when testing at the charge port terminals which indicates a bad charge port.
3. I get 49.9-50V when I disconnect the blue charge port connector and go straight to the battery with the main battery connectors together (per the electronic testing guide).
4. The 125A fuse is good.
5. The original SC-48 charger still works when I jumpered the charger plug to the blue charge port connector (battery side) per the electronic testing guide.
6. The mechanical switch click can be heard when turning the key but nothing shows the meter nor any other indication of power.
7. I was not able to get the charge port LED to light up to validate the lockout and charge port per the electronic testing guide.
All of this leads me to believe I have two separate problems:
1. The original SLA batteries are crap and likely too depleted to turn on the mower or any of the other mower electronics.
2. The charge port itself got nuked and is now bad for some reason which prevents me from using that. I will need to contact Ryobi about a possible replacement of that part if I am going to use that port in the future.
Can anyone on the thread confirm how they were charging their batteries while inside the mower when not going through the rear charge port?
1. Did you decouple the main battery connector and use a special battery charge cable wired with the same BMC2MS-gray connector? If so, did you custom make your cables or find something online already made?
2. If you were using aligator clips from your charger, were you disconnecting the main battery connector and clipping them inside the connector half attached to the battery?
3. Other approach?
Apologies for the ignorance on what was done here since I didn't see any reference pictures in the thread and it didn't sound like anyone has had the issue I ran into with a nuked rear charge port.
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byteharmony
Sunny side up please.
To reduce or eliminate the spark have you considered a second power wire with a resister in it? Hook that up first to slowly charge any capacitors that will cause an ark, then connect your primary power charging cable. Then turn on your charger.
This is built into xt90 connectors like these:
FLY RC 5 Pairs Amass XT90S XT90-S XT90 Connector Anti-Spark Male Female Motor Adapter for Battery ESC and Charger Lead for RC Car Truck https://a.co/d/iMxOJjN
To reduce the charge from 100 to 80% have you considered getting a power supply that charges to a voltage of your choosing? If you could Guage how many amps you'd need you could slow charge it just to the perfect voltage and then with an active bms all the parts slowly gell to ideal... unless I'm missing something. I hope to have this setup someday with the mower hooked up to a sol ark 15k. I hope it's charge settings allow me to do this so I don't need another charger. Then during a power outage I'd switch the settings to faster fuller charge and push the batteries harder.
This is built into xt90 connectors like these:
FLY RC 5 Pairs Amass XT90S XT90-S XT90 Connector Anti-Spark Male Female Motor Adapter for Battery ESC and Charger Lead for RC Car Truck https://a.co/d/iMxOJjN
To reduce the charge from 100 to 80% have you considered getting a power supply that charges to a voltage of your choosing? If you could Guage how many amps you'd need you could slow charge it just to the perfect voltage and then with an active bms all the parts slowly gell to ideal... unless I'm missing something. I hope to have this setup someday with the mower hooked up to a sol ark 15k. I hope it's charge settings allow me to do this so I don't need another charger. Then during a power outage I'd switch the settings to faster fuller charge and push the batteries harder.
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Hi Guys
I am deep down a bad rabbit hole trying to convert my 54" Ryobi Mower from SLA to LiFePo.
I got the new batteries (Chins 100Ah 12V) Charged them individually, and installed them in the mower. I can confirm the series voltage is about 54V.
I turn the key on, get on click out of the main relay on the mower, then it turns off. Battery string voltage is instantaneously down to about 2.5 volts.
First time, I pulled everything out of the mower, disconnected the batteries from each other, and they all measured about 14V. Strung them back together got 54+volts. Put them back in the mower, hook everything up, still 54+ volts. Turn the key on one click, no power, back to 2 volts.
A couple of questions : When a LiFePo BMS shuts off due to will it automatically reset after a time (as long as no permanent damage has been done?
This seems to me to be an inrush issue with the mower, which sounds like really bad news for me. The batteries that came out of the mower are 115Ah AGM type. Have I made a stupidly horrible and expensive miscalculation here?
Appreciate any help at all.
I am deep down a bad rabbit hole trying to convert my 54" Ryobi Mower from SLA to LiFePo.
I got the new batteries (Chins 100Ah 12V) Charged them individually, and installed them in the mower. I can confirm the series voltage is about 54V.
I turn the key on, get on click out of the main relay on the mower, then it turns off. Battery string voltage is instantaneously down to about 2.5 volts.
First time, I pulled everything out of the mower, disconnected the batteries from each other, and they all measured about 14V. Strung them back together got 54+volts. Put them back in the mower, hook everything up, still 54+ volts. Turn the key on one click, no power, back to 2 volts.
A couple of questions : When a LiFePo BMS shuts off due to will it automatically reset after a time (as long as no permanent damage has been done?
This seems to me to be an inrush issue with the mower, which sounds like really bad news for me. The batteries that came out of the mower are 115Ah AGM type. Have I made a stupidly horrible and expensive miscalculation here?
Appreciate any help at all.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
It may depend on the BMS in those batteries. It may reset or it might take a small charge to reset it. The BMS protected the batteries so no worries on damage.
I think that is exactly what you are seeing. If you can reduce the inrush by using a resistor as a prestart circuit that might do the trick. It is probably the capacitors in the motor controller if you have one. Otherwise the start up current for the motor if it has no motor controller. I had a similar problem with a chipper shredder. Thanks to advice I got here, I just reduced the voltage from 60 volts to 30 volts and it did not trip my 200 Amp BMS. I was reminded by a user here that a motor presents to the battery like a big resistor and the higher the voltage, the more current will flow in the circut.
No, I think it is recoverable in a number of ways. It depends on whether it has a motor controller of is a direct connection. keep us informed on your progress.
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Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
It all depends on the voltage. I prefer to set the voltage on my pack to about 3.45 volts per cell. That way the BMS only has to respond to individual cell voltages and the charging will go into Constant Voltage mode and Amps will taper before the pack gets even close to the High Voltage Disconnect of the BMS. Lithium charging can be very simple and often I have used inexpensive Meanwell power supplies as chargers. If I can not find one in the range of the pack I am charging I use and adjustable buck converter with LED that lets me control both Volts and Amps.
Thanks for the info and encouragement.
This mower has a bunch of motors (2 drive and 3 blade). They are all brushless variable speed so no "direct connection" between batteries and motors. The blades are definitely soft start. I assume the drive motors are also. Each motor has its own controller.
Not sure how I would wire up a precharge resistor, If I bypass the mowers on switch with a resistor, it seems like the motor controllers would be always on. That would worry me from a safety standpoint.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
You are correct, they should not be wired such that the controllers are always on. Search for Precharge resistor circuit. There are several discussions on this forum, Most of those only use the resistor for the few seconds needed to precharge the motor controller capacitors. Some are automatic with timers. Many of those type of controllers use pretty big capacitors which create huge surges for a second or two. Your bstteries can probably handle the momentary surge but the BMS typically can't unless it can be programmed for a short duration surge. A resistor will also reduce the wear on the contactor.
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I wish to say thanks to everyone in this forum, my 54" is so much better after the upgrade and I dont know if I would have been able to do it without the help here. I went a little overboard as I did not know how much more power my 54 in would draw compared to the others that were completed here
230 Ah (16S EVE cells)
200A Daly BMS
350A Shunt with monitor
Compression with aluminum angle iron and HDPE ends, threaded rod and PEX to keep the cells from the threads
Aims charger with 20 ft charging cord (I hated how short the stock one was)
It runs so much better and I can now mow for 5 hours. It maintains power and I almost never hear it get bogged down.
Thanks Again
Zach
230 Ah (16S EVE cells)
200A Daly BMS
350A Shunt with monitor
Compression with aluminum angle iron and HDPE ends, threaded rod and PEX to keep the cells from the threads
Aims charger with 20 ft charging cord (I hated how short the stock one was)
It runs so much better and I can now mow for 5 hours. It maintains power and I almost never hear it get bogged down.
Thanks Again
Zach
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Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,535
Battery terminals extend as high as painted metal frames. Is it physically possible for batteries to shift enough to contact? If the mower tips on its side?
If so, how about a tough enough insulator around the frame parts?
I used split heater hose as an insulator, discovered it is actually conductive enough to get interesting. It would reduce current far below dead short, but may start to burn so I would suggest measuring your tubing for resistance (or current flow at 48V) rather than making assumptions.
If so, how about a tough enough insulator around the frame parts?
I used split heater hose as an insulator, discovered it is actually conductive enough to get interesting. It would reduce current far below dead short, but may start to burn so I would suggest measuring your tubing for resistance (or current flow at 48V) rather than making assumptions.
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