Safe Enclosure recommendations?

[OffGridForGood]

Be advised that I was one of the first to buy the 280ah EVE kits, so the price I paid may be different now. They are worth the money though. Their BMS's are also one of the best I have found so far. The ability to connect them together and load share is pretty cool. (Although I have yet to test all seven of mine together).

yes i got a quote and the price (like everything) has gone up some.
i am playing with a design for one unit to be on casters on the back panel, so it can be rolled around on a concrete floor or transport to my cabin in my truck.

 

[x98myers7]

this is a great thread! I will be building a double-wall 5/8" drywall box for my lifepo batteries and installing a smoke detector above the inverter. both are in the service room next to the water tank and concrete. If upgrade to a larger system in the future, it's all going in a dedicated exterior vented fire cabinet in the garage.

 

[Honuz]

I would say .. the easy and cheap way is "aerated concrete", cost nothing.. easy to cut and glue together, highly resistant to fire.

Box cost me 20€ for a 10cm thick box, for a 16S, 280A pack.

Box

 

[rhino]

I would say .. the easy and cheap way is "aerated concrete", cost nothing.. easy to cut and glue together, highly resistant to fire.

Box cost me 20€ for a 10cm thick box, for a 16S, 280A pack.

Box

I don't think you can get that stuff easily in the USA.

 

[Honuz]

I don't think you can get that stuff easily in the USA.

Ho really ... strange, cause it's a pretty interesting material, thought there would be a market for that in the US.

 

[rhino]

Ho really ... strange, cause it's a pretty interesting material, thought there would be a market for that in the US.

I would agree but there is a lot of the cool environmentally friendly/cheap/useful materials like that that are not readily available in the USA.. triple pane windows (many order from manufacturer in Europe), wood fiber board, glass foam, ground screws, etc, etc.

 

[SparkyJJO]

You can get a ground screw here in the USA (I used them to set fence posts) they also have larger ones that beed equipment to install.

Americangroundscrew.com

 

[Shimmy]

Aerated concrete is available in the US too, but it is harder to find. Check with https://www.aerconaac.com/ for local distributors

 

[J.H.]

I have seen a couple of completely burned homes in this forum caused by the battery/inverter/etc... I can't help but wonder if anyone out there has fire-proofed the crap out of their set up. I have a neighbor that put all of their inverters and batteries in their master closet in the house. I think personally, I am thinking of building a "solar shed" that will house my batteries, inverters. I want to make a fire wall between the two (minimize destruction in case one side starts burning).

Any one else thinking about this and what specifically have you done?

My whole system is 20 ft from any structure… .all electrics and all panels are outside …I don’t need a firewall . When complete the only thing touching my dwelling will a 30 ft 6 ga shore power cord plugged into a recepticle.. Obviously I think your idea is great.. good luck.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Check this thread out ... we talked a lot about shelves and cabinets ... (with pics and videos and ...)

Shelves for 3x 280Ah 48v LiFePO4 Banks?

My 48 280Ah cells arrived a few weeks ago, but I have yet to unpack all of them for balancing due to other projects taking priority. I would like to have a storage shelving solution for the cells and would like some input. I was going to have a cabinet custom made, but a price-tag of over $3500...

diysolarforum.com

LFP can’t go on fire anymore then any high current device. Won’t be spending too much money on housing theM

 

[mrzed001]

LFP can’t go on fire anymore then any high current device. Won’t be spending too much money on housing theM

You have to protect LFP cells too ... from fauna, flora, mechanic damages, short circuit, moisture, heat, cold, ...
And for that you need some box or cabinet.

 

[freedomlives]

Aerated concrete is available in the US too, but it is harder to find. Check with https://www.aerconaac.com/ for local distributors

I find a lot to critique over here in Europe, but building houses out of nonflamable materials is not one of them!

 

[OffGridForGood]

My whole system is 20 ft from any structure… .all electrics and all panels are outside …I don’t need a firewall . When complete the only thing touching my dwelling will a 30 ft 6 ga shore power cord plugged into a recepticle.. Obviously I think your idea is great.. good luck.

I put my entire system in a metal building (my workshop) 100 feet away from the house, used direct-buried 3C6AWG to the house for my critical loads panel and another line beside it to feed utility power back to the system for the short cloudy days we get in Nov-Feb. Part of the reason was to keep the solar off my house, and part was to keep my wife off my back! LOL
Seriously, though, the inverter-fans, the space it all takes, wiring and upgrades, it just made sense to keep most of it out of the house for me.
I used 100A T-class fuses & MCCB breakers between my tower 600A buss bar and each rack battery, I put a 2P 300A MCCB breaker between the buss bars and the terminal blocks supplying the two inverters so I have a single breaker handle that will cut all DC battery power in one device, and I put 300A T-class fuses between each inverter-positive and the terminal blocks.
On the PV side I put DC fuses on each string, an Exterior Disconnect that cuts off all PV to the building, and Interior Fused Disconnect between the Inverters and the incoming PV. I followed all the CEC (similar to the NEC you guys have) for grounding of the PV system and fusing. The only item I am not 100% sure of is the required DC Arc-Fault detection/interruption which is not a simple breaker you can buy like AC AFDD. DC arc-fault is hard to find, and generally we mostly rely on the Inverter to have this internally. Does it? and is it compliant? not sure. I asked the folks at Tomzn (who supplied my MCCB's) if they had or could come up with a DC rated AFDD DIN-rail mounted breaker for a combiner box mounting between the inverters and the PV - guess we will see.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Google throws up several arc fault devices

 

[Sanwizard]

I put my entire system in a metal building (my workshop) 100 feet away from the house, used direct-buried 3C6AWG to the house for my critical loads panel and another line beside it to feed utility power back to the system for the short cloudy days we get in Nov-Feb. Part of the reason was to keep the solar off my house, and part was to keep my wife off my back! LOL
Seriously, though, the inverter-fans, the space it all takes, wiring and upgrades, it just made sense to keep most of it out of the house for me.
I used 100A T-class fuses & MCCB breakers between my tower 600A buss bar and each rack battery, I put a 2P 300A MCCB breaker between the buss bars and the terminal blocks supplying the two inverters so I have a single breaker handle that will cut all DC battery power in one device, and I put 300A T-class fuses between each inverter-positive and the terminal blocks.
On the PV side I put DC fuses on each string, an Exterior Disconnect that cuts off all PV to the building, and Interior Fused Disconnect between the Inverters and the incoming PV. I followed all the CEC (similar to the NEC you guys have) for grounding of the PV system and fusing. The only item I am not 100% sure of is the required DC Arc-Fault detection/interruption which is not a simple breaker you can buy like AC AFDD. DC arc-fault is hard to find, and generally we mostly rely on the Inverter to have this internally. Does it? and is it compliant? not sure. I asked the folks at Tomzn (who supplied my MCCB's) if they had or could come up with a DC rated AFDD DIN-rail mounted breaker for a combiner box mounting between the inverters and the PV - guess we will see.

You can build your own combiner box if you like. Very inexpensive using Aliexpress and home depot parts.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Google throws up several arc fault devices

DC rated?
if so please share!

 

[OffGridForGood]

You can build your own combiner box if you like. Very inexpensive using Aliexpress and home depot parts.

yes, however did you ever find an AFDD DC-Rated breaker? The AC-Rated ones are very common as these are required for bedroom plugs etc, but DC and AC are not equal and (I am told) not available. Tomzn design and make breakers for a living, and were unable to offer a DC-rated Arc-Fault Detection Disconnect breaker to meet NEC 690.11 (we have similar requirement in Canada under CEC 64-216)

 

[OffGridForGood]

For those who have the SMA sunny boy units, you may be protected already - see article from SMA on their approch to NEC 690.11 compliance.
I have seen references to Eton and Schneider DC-rated AFDD breakers, but have been unable to actually source any. If you know where to get them speak up i am all ears.

 

[Sanwizard]

yes, however did you ever find an AFDD DC-Rated breaker? The AC-Rated ones are very common as these are required for bedroom plugs etc, but DC and AC are not equal and (I am told) not available. Tomzn design and make breakers for a living, and were unable to offer a DC-rated Arc-Fault Detection Disconnect breaker to meet NEC 690.11 (we have similar requirement in Canada under CEC 64-216)

Looks like midnight solar may have a solution. https://www.altestore.com/store/enc...c-gfp-63-amp-dc-ground-fault-protector-p2413/

 

[OffGridForGood]

Looks like midnight solar may have a solution. https://www.altestore.com/store/enc...c-gfp-63-amp-dc-ground-fault-protector-p2413/

A ground faul - short to ground is not the same as as Arc Fault: ie detection of an arcing current jump either in series (pos to pos) or parallel between pos/neg.
The Arc Fault detector is intended to monitor changes in the current to detect an arc, and shut down the circuit if detected.
Say you install your PV system and later some rodent chews through the insulation of the pos and neg wires, and an arc starts to jump between these lines on your roof. It has been show that this type of 'leakage' often does not increase the current in the circuit but at the point of the arc high heat is generated and can cause a fire.
Another example, say you didn't crimp one of the MC4 connectors very well, and later the wire pulls out of the MC4 furrel a bit, not enough to break the circuit, but enough that the current jumps (arcs) from the end of the wire to the MC4 furrel, again not raising the amperage, but generating excessive heat and causing a fire.
The purpose of the arc fault detection and disconnect is to sense for these arcs and when detected shut down the circuit.
Here is a 2-minute video from Eaton to explain:

Yeah I was not able to actually get one.

 

[Maitake]

Tell me how the DC arc fault circuit can protect against a + to - arc fault from the array??? Or any arc fault in the array?
The wire arcs, the inverter turns off, and the wire keeps on arcing because it's sourced from the panels.

I must be missing something.
If there is a DC relay to the array, I can see how it could stop an arc to ground fault by opening the relay....

 

[Sanwizard]

Tell me how the DC arc fault circuit can protect against a + to - arc fault from the array??? Or any arc fault in the array?
The wire arcs, the inverter turns off, and the wire keeps on arcing because it's sourced from the panels.

I must be missing something.
If there is a DC relay to the array, I can see how it could stop an arc to ground fault by opening the relay....

I thought most newer panels are fused.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Tell me how the DC arc fault circuit can protect against a + to - arc fault from the array??? Or any arc fault in the array?
The wire arcs, the inverter turns off, and the wire keeps on arcing because it's sourced from the panels.

I must be missing something.
If there is a DC relay to the array, I can see how it could stop an arc to ground fault by opening the relay....

If i am reading the regulation correctly, the Arc Fault breaker is 2P and will cut both pos and neg, so the arc would stop, whether series or parallel arc.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I thought most newer panels are fused.

a fuse will not do anything if the current doesn't rise above the fuse rating. I have been watching some of these lab tests and they show in some cases the current drops! during an arcing situation, and the fuses do not cut the circuit. This seems to be the reason for this requirement.

 

[BillSF]

I live in fire country (everywhere these days?) So I'm building a concrete shed to put my inverters and batteries in. Primarily to protect them from a wildfire (along with routine maintenance of brush), but also to avoid risk of any fire from this equipment as well.

Maybe I'll even order some extra panels and wiring to keep in the shed. If everything else burns down, I can throw 4 to 6 extra panels on top / near the shed and have power