Safe Grid Use of the 5000ES and transformer

[bstamper]

Same here


Agreed
I was able to set mine up, with a non US version.
Much easier to do, with the ground relay still intact.


Emidiatly
Any time grid is connected to the loads.
First , it makes the bypass connection. Then, it connects grid to the inverter. After a few seconds (I assume that this is the time required to synchronize) the inverter connects to the load.
A lot of dotted lines, on the display. lol

So does this fix the issue with the safe use of the grid tie needing an isolation transformer or is this something completely different that you found?

 

[Shannonsman229]

Thanks to @timselectric I was able to utilize my system safely with this $550 15 k isolation Transformer. I have three us 5000es inverters in parallel. I will be coming from the grid with 3 50 amp Breakers feeding my three inverters. The two hots for each inverter will go into my AC out panel. From there I will have 3 30 amp Breakers. My two Hots from my AC out panel run into my Transformer. From the Transformer I will power my loads panel. The ground will follow from the grid hit the inverters AC out panel to the Transformer out to the load panel. I will then bond my neutral"created by isolation transformer" and ground in my loads panel.
I did away with the auto Transformer because unfortunately it is not easily if at all possible to Incorporate safely into my system.
Again Big shout out to @timselectric
I know that my situation will not work for everybody as every system is set up differently. I will be creating a video with details on connecting everything. I hope this helps.
Signature solar has been great with providing quality solar equipment. Their technical department was superb. I was able to get ahold of them quickly. The few questions I asked them they were able to answer quickly and we're very knowledgeable on these units.
Now the grid tie safety issues:
Every situation is different. Mine I was able to figure out everything except for the auto Transformer creating a ground Loop and putting everything that walked across my front yard Barefoot at risk. Luckily I had a helping hand in this forum. I was able to read up on other peoples situations and get ideas. For me doing away with the auto Transformer end picking up a used"new" 15k isolation Transformer for $550 was a perfect fix for my system.
Signature solar sales Quality Equipment at a great price. They actually go above and beyond and help do-it-yourselfers like everybody here. The fact that they do not have a solution to every single issue for every single situation is very understandable. They are actually sticking their necks out and helping us. Thanks signature solar.

 

[timselectric]

So does this fix the issue with the safe use of the grid tie needing an isolation transformer or is this something completely different that you found?

Yes
You can see how i done it, here.
Only works on the non US version.

Growatt SPF-5000-ES AT and N/G solutions

First, let's point out the issues with this inverter for use in a split-phase system. 1) this inverter was designed for use in a 230v grounded installation. (European standards) It's input and output are L1 and "N". This input "neutral" is expected to be grounded by the grid, and at the...

diysolarforum.com

 

[bstamper]

Thanks to @timselectric I was able to utilize my system safely with this $550 15 k isolation Transformer. I have three us 5000es inverters in parallel. I will be coming from the grid with 3 50 amp Breakers feeding my three inverters. The two hots for each inverter will go into my AC out panel. From there I will have 3 30 amp Breakers. My two Hots from my AC out panel run into my Transformer. From the Transformer I will power my loads panel. The ground will follow from the grid hit the inverters AC out panel to the Transformer out to the load panel. I will then bond my neutral"created by isolation transformer" and ground in my loads panel.
I did away with the auto Transformer because unfortunately it is not easily if at all possible to Incorporate safely into my system.
Again Big shout out to @timselectric
I know that my situation will not work for everybody as every system is set up differently. I will be creating a video with details on connecting everything. I hope this helps.
Signature solar has been great with providing quality solar equipment. Their technical department was superb. I was able to get ahold of them quickly. The few questions I asked them they were able to answer quickly and we're very knowledgeable on these units.
Now the grid tie safety issues:
Every situation is different. Mine I was able to figure out everything except for the auto Transformer creating a ground Loop and putting everything that walked across my front yard Barefoot at risk. Luckily I had a helping hand in this forum. I was able to read up on other peoples situations and get ideas. For me doing away with the auto Transformer end picking up a used"new" 15k isolation Transformer for $550 was a perfect fix for my system.
Signature solar sales Quality Equipment at a great price. They actually go above and beyond and help do-it-yourselfers like everybody here. The fact that they do not have a solution to every single issue for every single situation is very understandable. They are actually sticking their necks out and helping us. Thanks signature solar.

I'd be very interested in a diagram of this!! If you would be willing to put one together. I'm not against going this route to be able to utilize the grid safely if that is what it takes. My goal up front was just to offset the grid usage with solar and buy battery later until this issue came up. $600 -$800 now for the transformer to kick the can down the road rather than $X,000 right now for batteries to go all off grid.

 

[bstamper]

Yes
You can see how i done it, here.
Only works on the non US version.

Growatt SPF-5000-ES AT and N/G solutions

First, let's point out the issues with this inverter for use in a split-phase system. 1) this inverter was designed for use in a 230v grounded installation. (European standards) It's input and output are L1 and "N". This input "neutral" is expected to be grounded by the grid, and at the...

diysolarforum.com

Ahh k. I have the US version! Very much appreciate your input as always!

 

[timselectric]

I've been trying to figure out an easy way to do it on the US version. Unsuccessfully, so far.

 

[Shannonsman229]

I've been trying to figure out an easy way to do it on the US version. Unsuccessfully, so far.

I would not say unsuccessfully maybe with the auto Transformer Incorporated. Although in my situation you set me up for success. I believe the auto Transformers are $399 in my situation I paid $150 more and was able to have a safe system install. You rock!

 

[bstamper]

I would not say unsuccessfully in my situation you set me up for success. I believe the auto Transformers are $399 in my situation I paid $150 more and was able to have a safe system install. You rock!

Exactly my thought. While its not "native working" its a safe solution. I'm fine paying the extra and trying to sell the Growatt. If the Growatt was $600 up front.. I'd still have bought it thinking it was what I needed.

 

[timselectric]

I would not say unsuccessfully in my situation you set me up for success. I believe the auto Transformers are $399 in my situation I paid $150 more and was able to have a safe system install. You rock!

Yes, you will have a safe and robust system.
But, I'm still trying to make it work for others with the US version and auto transformer. Every time I come up with a possible solution. I push it to the extreme and find a flaw.
So far the options are still......
Don't connect to the grid.
Or use an isolation transformer.
(Or use the non US version)

 

[Shannonsman229]

Yes, you will have a safe and robust system.
But, I'm still trying to make it work for others with the US version and auto transformer. Every time I come up with a possible solution. I push it to the extreme and find a flaw.
So far the options are still......
Don't connect to the grid.
Or use an isolation transformer.
(Or use the non US version)

Thanks again. I'm sure you're going to crack The DaVinci Code of the u.s. version and auto Transformer grid tie use. If There's anybody that can it's you

 

[timselectric]

So far only one solution has a good shot.
Haven't been able to test it. But, I wouldn't call it easy. Because, it requires complete disassembly and soldering wires onto the back of the main board.
Not something that I would recommend.

 

[Shannonsman229]

So far only one solution has a good shot.
Haven't been able to test it. But, I wouldn't call it easy. Because, it requires complete disassembly and soldering wires onto the back of the main board.
Not something that I would recommend.

Does not sound to simple then again anybody connecting their own setup should be able to comfortably disassemble and solder wires onto the back of the main board with your step-by-step instructions. Now whether that voids the warranty really does not matter if you are not having it installed by license insured trained solar company per signature solar policy guidelines

 

[Hedges]

I have three us 5000es inverters in parallel. I will be coming from the grid with 3 50 amp Breakers feeding my three inverters. The two hots for each inverter will go into my AC out panel. From there I will have 3 30 amp Breakers. My two Hots from my AC out panel run into my Transformer. From the Transformer I will power my loads panel.

Do the inverters report AC power/current from the grid? Please tell us how much current each of them carries, when powering a load. If not displayed, then will need to put a clamp ammeter around each.

I had to jump through some hoops to get parallel currents balanced to within a few percent. Initially it was something like 3:1

 

[Shannonsman229]

Do the inverters report AC power/current from the grid? Please tell us how much current each of them carries, when powering a load. If not displayed, then will need to put a clamp ammeter around each.

I'm gearing up for install but I will definitely report back on this I'm looking forward to testing the current each of them carries when powering a load.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

This forum is an amazing resource. Ya'll are great.

 

[timselectric]

Do the inverters report AC power/current from the grid? Please tell us how much current each of them carries, when powering a load. If not displayed, then will need to put a clamp ammeter around each.

I had to jump through some hoops to get parallel currents balanced to within a few percent. Initially it was something like 3:1

Yes
These show on the display.
You can choose to view either kw or amperage.

 

[ajccmc]

Greetings,

Based on all the help I have received thus far, here is a diagram of my plans for review. I'm using the US version and the autotransformer. Since White wires don't show up on white background, all Neutral wires are shown in blue. Questions, comments? Thanks!

 

[timselectric]

Greetings,

Based on all the help I have received thus far, here is a diagram of my plans for review. I'm using the US version and the autotransformer. Since White wires don't show up on white background, all Neutral wires are shown in blue. Questions, comments? Thanks!

That seems overly complicated.
But, looks like it will do the job.
I can't read the print, and it's black and white for me.
But, it looks like you have put a bond screw in every neutral bar. If so, then that's creating several ground loops.

 

[ajccmc]

That seems overly complicated.
But, looks like it will do the job.
I can't read the print, and it's black and white for me.
But, it looks like you have put a bond screw in every neutral bar. If so, then that's creating several ground loops.

Greetings,

Sorry about the colors. It's a bit complicated I think mainly because I want to have 3 load centers. But I am considering have only 2, house and barn...in the case long period of no sun and no grid, I could just flip some breakers off in the sub panel. My concern has been how will the inverter perform on all the house loads, cause normally I should well below 5000 watts. My thinking was I'd rather support part of the load from the inverter than none of the load. I guess I could always get another inverter and stack it on. Or I could move breakers over in phases until I understand the limits. Only ground and neutral bonded will be in the first panel after the meter, after that always isolated.

 

[timselectric]

My thinking was I'd rather support part of the load from the inverter than none of the load.

This is good thinking.

Or I could move breakers over in phases until I understand the limits.

Also a good idea.

Only ground and neutral bonded will be in the first panel after the meter, after that always isolated.

Excellent

What you have drawn is fine.
And, it will evolve like everything else.
I know that what I currently have, is not what I originally designed. And, will probably not be the final system.