Sailboat lifepo4 2x200A set-up - Schematical drawing and interrogations

[Dijo]

Hello community!


After some long sail trip on some friend’s boats , I've bought recently an old 1978 (picture below) . I'm planning to re-new the boat entirely, then leave the canaries islands to sail around the world. Goal is to live off-grid, going surfing everywhere, trying to be self-sufficient as much as we can..

Picture of the beautiful Valiant 32 with this amazing canoe stern butt

After reshaping the windows, varnishing and renewing all wood , made the hull brand new, made all the plumbing.. I’m now into electricity.. which seems to be the last part before upgrading the living area..

I’ve made the schema below. but I don’t know what I am doing. I’ve learned a lot during my sailing experience. I have even made some upgrading on some boat system. I’ve read a lot and try to understand electricity .. but I’ve never made and design an entire system by myself.


Schema of the new electrical system : (explanation below)



Explination for the all system :
I don’t have a lot of money, so I would like to re-use what I had before when we were roots sailing to test the boat..
I had : -1x Flexible 100W solar panel – solar controller PWM 35A – 1x LA 110ah battery..

to re-use all of this and not mix battery type, I’ve made choice to have 2 différents circuit :

-Circuit 1 : The beautiful Service battery bank  2 pack of 200ah lifepo4 + 2x200W solar panel + 400w Windgenerator

-Circuit 2 : The classic Engine starter  110aH LCA + 1x100W flexible solar panel (panel and PWM are not shown on schema)


Solar panel will be mounted on an arch (which will be made before the electrical installation) and would have a variable positioning orientation.
Flexible solar panel will be or on the side line or on the deck..
Windgenerator will be on a pole above the arch but won’t be mounted directly. just because they are super expensive, I will wait to find a good buying opportunities or even intempting to build-one using the low tech technologie… but for the now, solar panels and alternator will be the only one to charge.. and with my total consumption calculation, it will be enough. I will have some backup days (2) just in case there is no sun , and if solar won’t be enough I will turn the engine sometimes..

Concerning grounding :
i've grounded for both system on the same busbar.. should i separate grounding ? add an extra central negative busbar for Sarter circuit ? or even ground everything dirrectly on the engine chassi ?


Concerning the alternator

I’ve learned there is a gear call “ARGO FET” from Victron, FET isolators allow simultaneous charging of two or more batteries from one alternator (or a single output battery charger), without connecting the batteries together.
this is exactly what I needed, I wanted to be able to charge both circuit with my alternator. So, I integrated in the scheme. is everyone already using this ?

Concerning the alternator. I have a Balmar 100A which seems a good one. It was on the engine already when I bought it.. But it appeared whenever I connected to the battery , it gave 18V.. looks like the regulator is dead, or there is no regulator at all on those model.. (I guess it’s an old model from balmar because I couldn’t find it)
I’ve seen on balmar website , there is some external regulator for those alternator, but they are so expensive, almost 800$ for it. Insane!
I don’t know the ARGOFET, but do the Argo has an regulator integrated for the alternator ? or do I have to put an external alternator regulator between alternator and Argo ? or add an internal regulator ?

After researching on the forum, I’ve found The VSR alternator regulator. (good article on this here http://arduinoalternatorregulator.blogspot.com/) they are much cheaper than Balmar one… Would this regulator be enough and are reliable ? anyone using this ?
Is those VSR alternator would be enough to protect batteries but also the alternator? or Should I put a SERTLING pro protect alternator protection switch to protect any alternator damage ?



Concerning the AC distribution
On a money concern, I’ve made the decision to save some money on the AC-DC charger. I think with this setup of 2x200a lifepo4 , a good solar array working with a good wind generator and alternator, I won’t need to connect to the grid to charge my batteries.. But I could upgrade and put a charger, in the future when I will have the money. or not.
AC circuit will only consist with plugging on the grid and have some working AC plug in the boat while in the marina...



Concerning the control tools
As showing on the schematic drawing I will have 2 app on my dedicated iPad for the boat. Ipad will mainly be use as a plotter and monitoring batteries :
- BMS APP to control the cells charge balance
- Victron smart shunt APP with the coolest feature to monitor 2 different batteries..(as shown in Will Prowse’s video)
-the MT50 + T°C sensor from the EPEVER 40A as a controller in the living area.



Concerning LIFEPO4 BMS
I’m still wondering which BMS I should use on each pack. 2x overkill 120A or 2x Daly 200A? I think with 2 overkill I would be able to draw 260A on a peak discharge. and with a 2000W inverter, those BMS will handle it ?


Concerning the Inverter
the only use of the inverter will be to charge and plug my computer, and charge some camera batteries. for any AC tools, I guess I will always wait to be in the arbor to use it..
I’ve made the choice of 2000W only to oversize it and avoid any heat damage. but maybe only a 1500W will be enough. maybe even a Victron 500W could be enough ? and maybe if I reduce the inverter I could also reduce the BMS and put the money into a good solid BMS like the overkill 120A ..




I know it’s a lot of interrogation, I’ve tried to be as clear as I could be ..

Anyway, i would love to heard what you have to say about this schematical drawing. Where I’ve overlooked, where i could upgrade it.. if I made some mistake in the drawing…
should the system work like that, what could I do better?
What could I do differently to save some money? I don’t want to save some money on good component, but maybe designing the system in another way , will reduce some costs.. let me know.

Otherwise, I will be in the canaries for some time, I guess until mid-October, so if anyone is there and want to catch up to have some nice discussion about the sailboat life, it will be with pleasure !

I wish you all some good time !
Let’s discuss !

 

[DDabs]

First off- sweet Valiant! I am building a nearly identical system for my 50' Morgan sloop. I look forward to following your progress- I think you are on the right path... at least from what I can tell. On my setup I'm going to use a battery-to-battery charger because I'm running a stock 80amp alternator. cheers!

 

[Philtao]

Good looking sailboat and nice drawing! Here are some thoughts and questions that come to mind:

• Wind generator above solar panels can make shade and reduce panels output (I used to have a wind generator on a previous boat, but decided to do without on Tao as we have been sailing in the tropics)
• Single ground for the whole installation: yes
• Yes you will need a regulator for the alternator (I do not know the one you mention). Be sure there is a temperature probe to reduce the output if alternator temperature goes up (will happen with lithium battery that have a low internal resistance and when engine is at low RPM)
• I do not see a fuse on the windlass (straight from the starter battery) I connected my windlass to the service battery (through a fuse) and like that the starter battery is only used to start the engine and does not need to be recharged with solar panel (10 to 15 minutes of motor is enough to replace the energy used to start the engine).

My main concern is about your safety on board. What will happen if the BMS decides to isolate the battery (this could happen if a cell voltage / temperature is too high or low, if the current is too high, if the BMS setting has been changed by error, if the BMS fails)? and what if that happens at night, in bad weather, close to shore...? (send a PM if you want a link to an article I wrote about: "Multi-level Protection" that is applicable to the electrical installation on a boat)

You would need to separate the charge and load buses and have the BMS cut only one of them depending on the fault. If overcharge, just isolate the charge bus so that your loads are still powered / if a cell voltage is low you may want the BMS to isolate the loads, but still allow the charge.

I would also separate the non-critical loads that you will want to be cut-off by the BMS. The critical loads (like navigation lights, GPS, autopilot, bilge pumps...) should not be cut-off (or as a last recourse after a number of warnings and if the situation gets worse).

Before taking any action, the BMS needs to give you a warning (visual and audible at the chart table) to give you time to fix the problem (5 to 10 minutes advance warning would be good).

Your charge systems (mppt, alternator regulator, wind controller) probably have a way to be switched on and off with a remote command (usually connect a wire to 12V or ground / or short two wires). You can set the BMS to activate those remote commands like that you save on relays.

I am not familiar with the BMS that have integrated SSR (solid state relay), but I doubt if they can do what I wrote above? I am sure someone on the forum will know.

Why not have a single pack 2P4S (there are threads that discuss the benefits) with a single BMS that controls external relays and can directly command the chargers? Let me know if that is a route you would like to explore and I can give you more details. I also have a BMS comparison chart with the major players in that field.

 

[wholybee]

Overall it looks good. First, you MUST have a regulator for the alternator, and this isn't an area to be frugal with. You have only 2 options, in my opinion. The Balmar MC-614(or the new 618), or the Wakespeed WS500. Of those, hands down, get the Wakespeed. The Balmar works fine, but the programming is 1980's technology(even though it's been updated with LiFePo4 profiles) and it takes someone with an engineering degree to set it up. The last one I did took too people (myself and a friend) 3 hours to program, and I wasn't confident about it. The new 618 still uses the archaic programming system.

Whatever Regulator you get, make sure it has the temp sensor that bolts to the alternator. LiFePo4 will overheat an alternator, and the regulator can derate it so it will stay at the proper temp.

It looks like you have a temp sensor on the Lifepo4 pack. Lifepo doesn't need temp sensors, and all temp compensation must be turned off on your chargers.

Either BMS is fine. WIth your use, you will probably never use more than 15A-20A. Buy whatever one is easier for you to get. For what it's worth, I have an Overkill on my boat, and with *everything* on, am under 20A. For testing capacity only, I ran a 700W space heater, and still only got to 80A. So using 2x to get 240A or 400A is pointless. Better to just keep the second as a spare in case it fails.

One reason to get a massive BMS, or get one that uses relays like the TAO, is to use your LiFEPo4 as a starting battery. Either as a backup with a combiner switch, or just as a single battery for both house and starting. I like the backup idea, but I know more and more boaters that only have a single LiFePo4 and use it for starting.

Make sure your inverter is true sine wave. Modified sine wave has problems with some computers. A laptop is less than 100W. 3000W is kind of pointless, because that is larger than the AC wiring in your boat can handle.

@Philtao Both the overkill and Daly are capable of a single direction disconnect, cutting of charging but still allowing discharge.

 

[Wibla]

The Balmar works fine, but the programming is 1980's technology(even though it's been updated with LiFePo4 profiles) and it takes someone with an engineering degree to set it up. The last one I did took too people (myself and a friend) 3 hours to program, and I wasn't confident about it. The new 618 still uses the archaic programming system.

Can confirm. I have an engineering degree and even I don't want to deal with these.

I prefer doing DC-DC chargers, because then you can adjust absorb time and such, but I realize that it's not a cheap solution if you want to utilize that 100A alternator properly. I'm more used to smaller VP's with <80A alternators.

 

[Dijo]

Hey everyone !

First of all, thanks for all thoses amazing reply.. i'm gonna try to answer all of you ..

i've been really busy with my work recently , that's why i've been away a bit.. now i'm getting back into it..
i'm into the final step before building and assembling, which is : order everything..
And this is freaking boring , specially when you need to be careful of the money.. so i do a lot a price comparison for every components .. take a long time ..

First off- sweet Valiant! I am building a nearly identical system for my 50' Morgan sloop. I look forward to following your progress- I think you are on the right path... at least from what I can tell. On my setup I'm going to use a battery-to-battery charger because I'm running a stock 80amp alternator. cheers!

Thanks a lot DDabs ! i will update my progress on every step.. specially documenting the building, and where i've struggled to help the community..
when you say use a battery-to-battery charger, do you mean that you're two batery bank (engine + service) are linked ?or they can be isolated like with the Argo FET ?

i've recently heard about the "RENOGY 12V 50A DC-DC on board battery charger" which allow you to charge both battery bank with solar and alternator .. and this only cost 299$.. Is this could replace the ARGO FET (140$) and the MPTT (289$) .. this could be really nice to save some money..
Anyone know this RENOGY ? in description they say :"Isolation of the starting battery and the service battery". is this mean that they're not linked like in the ARGO FET.. and could it handle a 100A alternator ?

​

 

[Dijo]

Thanks for this amazing reply Philtao, i've DM you for the "multi-level protection" doc

Good looking sailboat and nice drawing! Here are some thoughts and questions that come to mind:

• Wind generator above solar panels can make shade and reduce panels output (I used to have a wind generator on a previous boat, but decided to do without on Tao as we have been sailing in the tropics)
• Single ground for the whole installation: yes
• Yes you will need a regulator for the alternator (I do not know the one you mention). Be sure there is a temperature probe to reduce the output if alternator temperature goes up (will happen with lithium battery that have a low internal resistance and when engine is at low RPM)
• I do not see a fuse on the windlass (straight from the starter battery) I connected my windlass to the service battery (through a fuse) and like that the starter battery is only used to start the engine and does not need to be recharged with solar panel (10 to 15 minutes of motor is enough to replace the energy used to start the engine).

1. Windgenerator will be added much later so for the moment it's not a problem..
2. the fuse on windlass has been forgotten, but it will have one.. i think i will go for your option : putting my windlass on my service battery with a fuse.. i will Add it directly on the main Positive Service distribution

You would need to separate the charge and load buses and have the BMS cut only one of them depending on the fault. If overcharge, just isolate the charge bus so that your loads are still powered / if a cell voltage is low you may want the BMS to isolate the loads, but still allow the charge.

I would also separate the non-critical loads that you will want to be cut-off by the BMS. The critical loads (like navigation lights, GPS, autopilot, bilge pumps...) should not be cut-off (or as a last recourse after a number of warnings and if the situation gets worse).

Before taking any action, the BMS needs to give you a warning (visual and audible at the chart table) to give you time to fix the problem (5 to 10 minutes advance warning would be good).

Your charge systems (mppt, alternator regulator, wind controller) probably have a way to be switched on and off with a remote command (usually connect a wire to 12V or ground / or short two wires). You can set the BMS to activate those remote commands like that you save on relays.

I am not familiar with the BMS that have integrated SSR (solid state relay), but I doubt if they can do what I wrote above? I am sure someone on the forum will know.

allright , that's really interesting infos,.. BMS aren't enough smart to understand which one is discharge or charge ? saying there are not, means , as you say, i should separate buses Charge and load.. So i should put the argo + mptt + windcontroller on a bus, connected directly on the service battery with they main fuse ? and in an other bus all the loads , with their own main fuse ?

I've drawing this : what would be the best option ?



on the 2 : this will be the best and cheaper option right ? this will allow BMS to disconnect charge or load whenever it needs ?

Why not have a single pack 2P4S (there are threads that discuss the benefits) with a single BMS that controls external relays and can directly command the chargers? Let me know if that is a route you would like to explore and I can give you more details. I also have a BMS comparison chart with the major players in that field.

I don't know.. i didn't dive into it.. maybe i should before ordered my overkill BMS 120A.. and this will be too small if i use only one BMS for a single pack of 400a.. Anyway , i was thinking to have one overkill BMS 120A and one DALY 200A.. like that as @wholybee says, i will have one as spare just in case one fail..
For the moment i've already ordered 2x 4S 200A LIFEPO4 on 2 different order and shipping.. + 1x overkill BMS 120A + 1x 200A DALY BMS

I will see how i can manage everything with all of this ...

 

[Dijo]

Thanks @wholybee for thoses amazing infos !! loving it

Overall it looks good. First, you MUST have a regulator for the alternator, and this isn't an area to be frugal with. You have only 2 options, in my opinion. The Balmar MC-614(or the new 618), or the Wakespeed WS500. Of those, hands down, get the Wakespeed. The Balmar works fine, but the programming is 1980's technology(even though it's been updated with LiFePo4 profiles) and it takes someone with an engineering degree to set it up. The last one I did took too people (myself and a friend) 3 hours to program, and I wasn't confident about it. The new 618 still uses the archaic programming system.

Whatever Regulator you get, make sure it has the temp sensor that bolts to the alternator. LiFePo4 will overheat an alternator, and the regulator can derate it so it will stay at the proper temp.

good info ! thanks a lot ! i've check the wakespeed.. it's so expensive almost 500$.. would it be easier and simpler to just replace my internal regulator inside the balmar, and connect directly to the argofet.. instead of having an external regulator..
The only problem i have with mine, i don't really know if there is a damaged internal regulator or no regulator at all.. (even no internal regulator possible at all) ..can't find this alternator doc at all...
And i'm not in the boat now, so i can't do some test.. the only thing i know , when i tested it, it was 18V shown on my displays..

For the T°C sensor , i take note !

It looks like you have a temp sensor on the Lifepo4 pack. Lifepo doesn't need temp sensors, and all temp compensation must be turned off on your chargers.

that was just to keep an eye on T°C in the battery storage ..i keep in mind that all temp compensation should be turned offon my charger.

Either BMS is fine. WIth your use, you will probably never use more than 15A-20A. Buy whatever one is easier for you to get. For what it's worth, I have an Overkill on my boat, and with *everything* on, am under 20A. For testing capacity only, I ran a 700W space heater, and still only got to 80A. So using 2x to get 240A or 400A is pointless. Better to just keep the second as a spare in case it fails.

One reason to get a massive BMS, or get one that uses relays like the TAO, is to use your LiFEPo4 as a starting battery. Either as a backup with a combiner switch, or just as a single battery for both house and starting. I like the backup idea, but I know more and more boaters that only have a single LiFePo4 and use it for starting.

Allright , i guess i like the combiner switch for back up.. specially because i have two different type of battery... but maybe one day when my new lead acid battery will be dead, i will upgrade an use only lifepo4 for everything...

As i said in previous reply.. i've finally orderer one 120A overkill BMS and one 200A DALY.. like that i could also compare them..and i will either working on different pack or either on for the all pack..

 

[Dijo]

Can confirm. I have an engineering degree and even I don't want to deal with these.

I prefer doing DC-DC chargers, because then you can adjust absorb time and such, but I realize that it's not a cheap solution if you want to utilize that 100A alternator properly. I'm more used to smaller VP's with <80A alternators.

Hey @Wibla ! thanks for your answer.

I think i would have been for the cheapest solution, but i have to deal with some stuff that are already on the boat. like this 100A balmar..I assume that changing everything to go for the cheaper solution will finally cost more if you add new alternator cost.. So i guess i'm stuck with this 100A balmar with no regulation..

 

[Pim57]

How did you decide to have 2x 200 = 400 AH of LFP?

LFP loves to cycle, so your LFP must be able to survive the night and one rainy day without solar.
And to have some reserve calculate with 48 hours on battery only.

I can’t believe that you burn 400 AH in two days?

Unlike lead acid, LFP has no problem being discharged to 10% SOC State of Charge.

 

[Bubba1]

What engine do you have. My universal M18 could not handle a 100 amp alternator. It is just enough to push the boat. I removed it and went with the stock 35 amp alternator.

 

[wholybee]

good info ! thanks a lot ! i've check the wakespeed.. it's so expensive almost 500$.. would it be easier and simpler to just replace my internal regulator inside the balmar, and connect directly to the argofet.. instead of having an external regulator..
The only problem i have with mine, i don't really know if there is a damaged internal regulator or no regulator at all.. (even no internal regulator possible at all) ..can't find this alternator doc at all...
And i'm not in the boat now, so i can't do some test.. the only thing i know , when i tested it, it was 18V shown on my displays..

The Agrofet is not a replacement for an alternator regulator, they are completely different.
The cheap(er) way, if you want to avoid an expensive regulator, is to use a DC-DC charger. This could replace the agrofet and eliminate an external regulator will work with a cheap alternator with an internal regulator, but it would change your drawing substantially. It will also limit your charge current to about 30A typically.

Some people do get away with using an internal regulated alternator without any special considerations. But it is risky, and could damage not only the alternator but other electronics as well.

 

[mikefitz]

I may have missed the comment in an other reply, but the alternator charge circuit is not correct.

The Balmar is a good quality alternator and will be the main source of charging, you cannot rely on solar or wind. Solar is poor on sail boats because much of the time there are shadows from the rigging or sails on the panels reducing the output considerably.

There is an advantage in using the expensive Balmar regulator but there is a low cost alternative,

Balmar ERS Economy Voltage Regulator - e Marine Systems

Balmar ERS Economy Voltage Regulator is ideal as an emergency back up and mounts easily to an alternator case bolt, and can be used with any externally regulated P-type alternator.

www.emarineinc.com

You must have a regulator of some sort with the alternator. Do not consider the VSR alternator regulator in your link

The Victron Argo is not what you need. It does not provide the correct charge profile for lithium and will not limit the charge current.

With the lithium batteries, if in parallel use the same BMS on each, the JBD is one I would recommend,

4S or 3S 12V Li ion or Lifepo4 Battery smart BMS with Bluetooth function UART and RS485 communication with 60A to 120A constant current – LLT POWER ELECTRONIC

Your complete electronics and chargers need to be quality items. With my marine installs I only use Blue Sea for fuses, switches, breakers, buss bars. All chargers , inverters and monitors from Victron.

For alternator charging you need to have control of current and voltage to the lithium battery. The easiest method that does not stress the alternator or require complex alternator control is a battery to battery charger, you must use a lead acid battery for engine starting ( a lithium battery of the DIY type considered, cannot deliver the starting current, in addition it could damage the alternator. (Ignore the label on the charger in the picture, for a 12v systen the 12 12 30 would be used)


I cannot be sure but I think you have posed before asking a similar questions. It was suggested you consider a maximum of 100Ah cells for the batteries. This gives a much more robust battery pack suitable for the conditions you will encounter.

There is the subject of electrical safety and earthing in a marine installation. This will offer guidance,

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

It's too late now you have embarked on the lithium route but for a newcomer to sailing with modest electrical requirements, there is an argument for the install of deep cycle lead acid, such as four off Trojan T105 in a series parallel format to give 450 Ah at 12v.

Mike

PS sorry wholybee to repeat your advice, i was typing as you posted.

 

[Wibla]

Solar is poor on sail boats because much of the time there are shadows from the rigging or sails on the panels reducing the output considerably.

You'd be surprised at how much energy you can collect with solar on a sailboat

 

[wholybee]

You'd be surprised at how much energy you can collect with solar on a sailboat

Indeed. I've not needed to run my engine for charging in well over a year, and I do not have shore power or a genset either.

 

[Philtao]

Thanks for this amazing reply Philtao, i've DM you for the "multi-level protection" doc

1. Windgenerator will be added much later so for the moment it's not a problem..
2. the fuse on windlass has been forgotten, but it will have one.. i think i will go for your option : putting my windlass on my service battery with a fuse.. i will Add it directly on the main Positive Service distribution

allright , that's really interesting infos,.. BMS aren't enough smart to understand which one is discharge or charge ? saying there are not, means , as you say, i should separate buses Charge and load.. So i should put the argo + mptt + windcontroller on a bus, connected directly on the service battery with they main fuse ? and in an other bus all the loads , with their own main fuse ?

I've drawing this : what would be the best option ?
View attachment 58442


on the 2 : this will be the best and cheaper option right ? this will allow BMS to disconnect charge or load whenever it needs ?




I don't know.. i didn't dive into it.. maybe i should before ordered my overkill BMS 120A.. and this will be too small if i use only one BMS for a single pack of 400a.. Anyway , i was thinking to have one overkill BMS 120A and one DALY 200A.. like that as @wholybee says, i will have one as spare just in case one fail..
For the moment i've already ordered 2x 4S 200A LIFEPO4 on 2 different order and shipping.. + 1x overkill BMS 120A + 1x 200A DALY BMS

I will see how i can manage everything with all of this ...

It seems that you are going the integrated BMS route (the ones with integrated switching devices). I understand some can control charge and loads separately, but do not have experience with those and wish you to find what you need.
I am used to BMS that control external switching devices (relays), that have many more features and can be used as a complete energy management system that controls all its environment... and this is what I need on my boat where blackouts are not an option.

 

[Dijo]

What engine do you have. My universal M18 could not handle a 100 amp alternator. It is just enough to push the boat. I removed it and went with the stock 35 amp alternator.

My engine is a Yanmar 3GM30 .. this one handle my alternator , i mean i've not seen any problem with it except that my alternator is producing 18V..

How did you decide to have 2x 200 = 400 AH of LFP?

LFP loves to cycle, so your LFP must be able to survive the night and one rainy day without solar.
And to have some reserve calculate with 48 hours on battery only.

I can’t believe that you burn 400 AH in two days?

Unlike lead acid, LFP has no problem being discharged to 10% SOC State of Charge.

i've made my calculation and i've found that i will use 2000W on an average day .. i don't have the exact calcul with me , but i've made different calcul on : normal sailing day - cloudy sailing day - anchorage sunny day - anchorage rainy day -
I'm always between 2000W and 3000W ... one of my big load are my computer when i'm on a rainy day.. when i can't surf or paragliding, i like to spend ages on my computer editing some videos.. sometimes i can work on it for 10hours.. and i never want to be limited because of not enough batteries.. so i took large on packs.. i guess with 400A , i will never be bother about electricity.. and after many expreiences on boat is really something i'm clear about... as i've seen many people struggling to charge their phone or their computer because batteries was a bit low..

So my calculation was 2000W/24h at max usage, with 2 days of backup it's 6000W.. which will require banks up to 500A..and i took a bit less, in therms of price , and also because i know that i would never use all of this.. So i guess 400A it's more than enough and finally good quality/price for beiing in lithium , and beiing setup for at least 5 to 10 years ..
2x200A LIFEPO4 (aliexpress) + 2x120BMS (overkill) = 460€ each pack..

 

[Dijo]

Hey @wholybee !

Nice suggestion here :

The Agrofet is not a replacement for an alternator regulator, they are completely different.
The cheap(er) way, if you want to avoid an expensive regulator, is to use a DC-DC charger. This could replace the agrofet and eliminate an external regulator will work with a cheap alternator with an internal regulator, but it would change your drawing substantially. It will also limit your charge current to about 30A typically.

Some people do get away with using an internal regulated alternator without any special considerations. But it is risky, and could damage not only the alternator but other electronics as well.

I know the argofet is not a alternator regulator replacement.. but i've asked if it could have any kind of regulation .. but apparently not..

Do you mean that without any regulator in my alternator connected directly to the DC-DC charger, this will be able to charge my engine battery and my service battery without linking them ?
If that is, i would go for a DC-DC charger.. like that i avoidto buy an argofet and an expensive outside regulator..

 

[Dijo]

Hey @mikefitz , yes i do had an "new comers introduction" somewhere where you already replied me.. but work have know some good improvement.. I want know moove everything in this thread..

The Balmar is a good quality alternator and will be the main source of charging, you cannot rely on solar or wind. Solar is poor on sail boats because much of the time there are shadows from the rigging or sails on the panels reducing the output considerably.

There is an advantage in using the expensive Balmar regulator but there is a low cost alternative,

Balmar ERS Economy Voltage Regulator - e Marine Systems

Balmar ERS Economy Voltage Regulator is ideal as an emergency back up and mounts easily to an alternator case bolt, and can be used with any externally regulated P-type alternator.

www.emarineinc.com

You must have a regulator of some sort with the alternator. Do not consider the VSR alternator regulator in your link

I definetly know that i need an alternator regulator for my balmar..and also i know that this balmar is a good one.. i just try to find the best solution/price for it..i do really like the price of this alternative balmar regulator..it will just cost me two times the price on shipping , but it's still less expensive that any other regulator..

But i don't want to rely just on my balmar to charge my service battery.. this for me is just the main charge of my engine battery , and an extra charge for my service whenever i need it .. but o've seen in the past that solar is really reliable to charge the battery on a boat.. specially coupled with wind generator.. on of my friend had 7 lead acid battery of 110A and never had to use engine or grid to charge his batteries .. only sun and wind..

Your complete electronics and chargers need to be quality items. With my marine installs I only use Blue Sea for fuses, switches, breakers, buss bars. All chargers , inverters and monitors from Victron.

Agree +1, i've some budget limit, but i will never put some random material for my system.. i will always use good qualities wires, fuse etc..

For alternator charging you need to have control of current and voltage to the lithium battery. The easiest method that does not stress the alternator or require complex alternator control is a battery to battery charger, you must use a lead acid battery for engine starting ( a lithium battery of the DIY type considered, cannot deliver the starting current, in addition it could damage the alternator. (Ignore the label on the charger in the picture, for a 12v systen the 12 12 30 would be used)
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I will use an lead acid battery 110a for my engine as i already have it.. for the DC-DC charger Same question as wholybee.. do the DC-DC charger won't link my batteries (service and engine) ? and do this will be able to avoid alternator regulator ?

It's too late now you have embarked on the lithium route but for a newcomer to sailing with modest electrical requirements, there is an argument for the install of deep cycle lead acid, such as four off Trojan T105 in a series parallel format to give 450 Ah at 12v.

i think you've got it wrong i'm not a newcomer into sailing.. i've sail many differents boat with many differents set up.. i'm a newcomer into building an entire lithium system for sure..
also we've sail this Valiant boat almost 1000miles , only to test the boat. We've leaved for 4 month with just the basics : one light, almost no water going out the tap, an engine we built ourself and we had to fix the engine while sailing.. we had no safety feature except a stolen liferaft which fell from the grounded boat we steal..
on this set up we had only 1 110Ah Lead acid with an old 60W solar panel with an PWM.. and this was enough for all .. so i know that i could go for only lead acid blablabla.. but as it's the first boat i own , and as i rebuild it like it his my own house, i want what is best for me. and after some consideration building a lifepo4 system is what i wanted..
And also building an entire system using cheap lithium cells, make me learn about all of this , and that's what i love about doing this : learning..

hope it help you to understand the whole picture

 

[wholybee]

Hey @wholybee !

Nice suggestion here :


I know the argofet is not a alternator regulator replacement.. but i've asked if it could have any kind of regulation .. but apparently not..

Do you mean that without any regulator in my alternator connected directly to the DC-DC charger, this will be able to charge my engine battery and my service battery without linking them ?
If that is, i would go for a DC-DC charger.. like that i avoidto buy an argofet and an expensive outside regulator..

Not quite. You *always* need a regulator of some kind for an alternator. The alternator simply will not work without one. But, you could use a cheap alternator with an internal regulator, or a cheaper external alternator. You wouldn't need an expensive regulator that is safe for Lithium. The alternator would be connected to the Lead Acid starting battery as if it were the only battery you had. Then the DC-DC charger would charge the Lifepo4 from the Lead Acid battery. So the Lithium battery is isolated both from the other battery and from the alternator.

This is a common and recommended setup for a number of reasons. The downside is that you will only be able to charge your Lithium Battery at the rating of the DC-DC charger - typically 30A.