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Santan 🚨 Tariff Alert Aug 1st!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. What should happen vs what actually happens... :fp2

It's why I LOVE "gridlock." If either party has control of everything, SOMETHING gets screwed up. When control is split, the ONLY things that get done are the things that everybody agrees on... still not great in most cases, but it beats the crap out of making laws based on extreme ideologies, which are almost always detrimental to all.
 
When have you seen logic and politics align?

This is anti-china, pro-'merca, "protecting 'mercan jerbs," which is what a large chunk of the country wants or can be talked into (mostly because they don't understand). There's also the benefit of getting more taxes from american consumers.

The politicians get to be perceived as doing something meaningful, while raising prices for consumers and generating tax revenue.
I mean the argument that we’re protecting American jobs might be valid if Americans were at least making these products. But we’re not, so…
 
I wouldn't worry about tariffs/double the price in the future. Companies like Sunpower are basically bankrupt as solar installations have slowed considerably, especially under NEM 3.0

There will be a cleansing of excess coming, things will most likely be firesale before prices climb again. This is Wave Principle in action, the group before us is the Innovators, next comes the Early Adopters which we are most likely with LFP ESS (more widespread availability and adoption), then comes Early Majority, then Late Majority.

In between the stages of the bell curve you see some drawback before things move up again. This is due to heavy demand at the peak of each stage, essentially each stage has it's own bell curve.

This principle is also known as Technology Adoption Lifecycle.
 
There is danger in a single country controlling an entire industry. Especially if that country is an "enemy". Political decisions are made for more than purely economic reasons.

I'm not commenting on if the tariffs are right, I'm just saying it's a bigger discussion than simply economics.
 
Oh boy, here we go!
  1. Import tariffs are imposed by politicians according to their beliefs/understanding of how things work and what will work.
  2. This is election year in the US and things are heating up!
Where is this headed?
 
Stated 25% increase.
$100 panel will increase to $125
Remember, only the TARIFF increases 25 to 50% not the retail price.
Say the panel wholesale is 100.00, and our price for the panel is 200.

A 50% tarrif means thw panel now costs them 25% more of the original cost, so subtract 25% from 100 you get 75, add 50% you get 112.50 cost.
Our price goes up to 212.50, and they make same profit.

BUT in all likelyhood, they will just add 50% of total cost and make us pay 250.
 
Remember, only the TARIFF increases 25 to 50% not the retail price.
Say the panel wholesale is 100.00, and our price for the panel is 200.

A 50% tarrif means thw panel now costs them 25% more of the original cost, so subtract 25% from 100 you get 75, add 50% you get 112.50 cost.
Our price goes up to 212.50, and they make same profit.

BUT in all likelyhood, they will just add 50% of total cost and make us pay 250.
Math is hard. See: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/santan-🚨-tariff-alert-aug-1st.87499/#post-1152523

A 25% tariff on a $75 dollar panel is not $100. That would be a 33.33% tariff.
 
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This is anti-china, pro-'merca, "protecting 'mercan jerbs," which is what a large chunk of the country wants or can be talked into (mostly because they don't understand). There's also the benefit of getting more taxes from american consumers.

Exactly. That is why I was asking how the consumer wins if prices will go up no matter where they come from.
 
They might get a few panicked suckers to buy at the above true tariff price but it will show to the smarter of us which sellers are shisters and to avoid. Bottom line, I’m thinking that there’s plenty of margin to actually reduce prices to the level that we are currently paying delivered in a few months.
 
Green energy should be tax exempt in my opinion, but obviously big brother loses in that situation along with the monopolized grid energy companies. They really don't want us to make our own electricity unless we are dumping it into their infrastructure.

They don't want that either unless it can be done for a huge disparity in value, i.e., pay you a couple cents per kWh but charge you 10X.
 
Personally I think all import tariffs should be ZERO for any nation that reciprocates. (See Also historical info about the Common Market and EU).

This is the foundation of the "United States", somewhat lost over time, but a primary objective for the creation of the US constitution was to prevent states from creating tariffs on products from other states. Generally this promotes economic growth all the way around, but actually promotes more growth in the areas that can produce more desired output for less money.

Here's the problem (and one of the things Trump was angry about). You sell me your electronic widgets there is no tariff I get cheap stuff. We make really good widget making tools, I can sell them to you with no tariff but you subsidize your tool makers that make inferior products so because you can get locally made tools so much cheaper you don't buy mine even though they aren't as good.

Pick your product lines going back and forth. All countries even ours do this crap but traditionally the US has been a dumping ground for inexpensive foreign products and our products are blocked through various means by those same nations. Food is a biggie. (See also Japan and Rice tariffs).

The point is, it just isn't that simple. NAFTA was not really as awful as Mr Orange intimates, but USMCA is actually better and much more fair for the US. This is actually pretty important, it's one thing to sell your cheap panels to me, but without some reciprocation, you just bleed off wealth from me to you, and yours is the only pot that gets bigger. And no matter what is done, someone is not going to be happy about it. :ROFLMAO: !
 
I mean the argument that we’re protecting American jobs might be valid if Americans were at least making these products. But we’re not, so…
I mean we've had two fairly large projects start building, it won't see anything until next year, but it is something. It's also probably got more to do with the mega incentives the federal and state governments are throwing at them, than the tariffs themselves. But, hey maybe the tariffs can be used to help fund the incentives rather than spending my social security money.



Part of the tariffs are about signaling. If you're willing to put in tariffs now when they don't make any sense, you're probably willing to keep tariffs after billions are spent on the understanding that there will be support. The US government, like most governments, is pretty unreliable, so anything they can do to show they're serious and committed can help.
 
Instead of "Fair Trade" and "Most Favored Nation", I think we should have "Balanced Trade".

To be allowed to import something into the US, you have to export, or buy the rights to exports.

"Cap and Trade Trade".

So money flow is balanced. Balanced including payments to foreign bond holders.

At the individual level that is enforced by bounced checks, declined credit applications, etc.
 
Sounds like communism.

Ummm... Yeah... Right... Last I heard is communism is NOT profit driven to provide value for share/stakeholders. What do you call it when the government removes regularly guardrails around companies, and they can act however they want? You call that communism?

This is 1000% "free market" greed. The more you get corporation commissions populated by far right "business" advocates that actually REMOVE regulation, the more the utilities are driven by profits with no more reinvestment in maintenance and infrastructure than is absolutely necessary.
 
Ummm... Yeah... Right... Last I heard is communism is NOT profit driven to provide value for share/stakeholders. What do you call it when the government removes regularly guardrails around companies, and they can act however they want? You call that communism?

This is 1000% "free market" greed. The more you get corporation commissions populated by far right "business" advocates that actually REMOVE regulation, the more the utilities are driven by profits with no more reinvestment in maintenance and infrastructure than is absolutely necessary.
Regulated capture.
 
I noticed Santan all the used were below 300 watts sure glad I got my 395W panels back in November when they had the buy 3 get 1 free sale. I don't see the things changing no matter who wins in November. I always thought tariffs were bad for the consumer no matter what.
 
As everyone is aware, it's now August 1st. The entire economy has collapsed due to the tariffs. Solar panels and ramen noodles are the default currency of this post-tariff wasteland.

200w.gif


But, seriously it looks like the tariff increases were already priced in and nothing much has changed.
 
As everyone is aware, it's now August 1st. The entire economy has collapsed due to the tariffs. Solar panels and ramen noodles are the default currency of this post-tariff wasteland.

200w.gif


But, seriously it looks like the tariff increases were already priced in and nothing much has changed.
Haven’t really looked yet.
 

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