Schneider Battery Monitor and Lifepo4 batteries

[Logsled]

Does anyone know if the Schneider Battery Monitor works with Lifepo4 batteries. In the installation guide there is a note that says: "not compatible with lithium batteries." However, I'm wondering if that's old language. I've have seen systems on YouTube where they are used in lithium systems. I'm wondering is Schneider produced a firmware upgrade to allow the use of these batteries. Anyone know? Thanks

 

[hwy17]

I have heard of them being used. But I think their utility is questionable. Do you already have one? What functionality are you looking for in it?

BMS comms would be better.

 

[pvdude]

BMS comms would be better.

This^^
I have a Schneider battery monitor, it seems to be old school, designed for FLA.

 

[BentleyJ]

Curious about that statement "BMS coms would be better". Not sure how this is true. Dozens of posts on the Forum complaining about poor SoC accuracy from BMS.

I don't have a Schnieder Batt Monitor so cannot recommend it, however, the set up menu has both an efficiency and a Peukert Exponent setting. Would lead one to believe the batt monitor could be "calibrated" quite well and produce excellent accuracy. Am I missing something?

 

[hwy17]

Would lead one to believe the batt monitor could be "calibrated" quite well and produce excellent accuracy. Am I missing something?

Just missing the factor that the Schneider battery monitor isn't good. It's not equivalent to say a Victron shunt. This is my impression, not based one experience.

For me, my BMS SOC is not better because it's perfect at tracking the SOC, but because it can correct and drift the SOC based on cell voltages, so it's SOC triggers can react to a low cell. But an external shunt or monitor has no cell visibility.

 

[Logsled]

So here's the situation. I have a 1000 am/hr RiUxu Lifepo4 rack battery system. It does communicate with my Gateway home insight--I can view SOC and all other data coming from the battery. However, the SOC on the Batt Mon doesn't communicate with the AGS SOC settings. I.e., the AGS doesn't activate at the SOC set point when the BMS show's the battery's SOC it's at that set point. What I'm wanting to do (without having to upgrade to the XWPro) is figure out if the Schneider Batt Mon can accurately read my Lifepo4 battery's SOC and therefore activate my AGS when it hits the SOC setpoint. If it can, I can simply disconnect the CAN communication from the battery and use the Schneider as my monitor. Thank you for all the replies. It's hard to find in-depth knowledge in Alaska.

 

[SniperX]

Just missing the factor that the Schneider battery monitor isn't good. It's not equivalent to say a Victron shunt. This is my impression, not based one experience.

For me, my BMS SOC is not better because it's perfect at tracking the SOC, but because it can correct and drift the SOC based on cell voltages, so it's SOC triggers can react to a low cell. But an external shunt or monitor has no cell visibility.

Do you think a Victron shunt would be good to add to a Schneider system? I have 6 EGlls (v1) and wondered if I should add a shunt. XWPro plus 100mppt (Schneider) I have a battery monitor I picked up from a purchase on FB marketplace but figured it doesn't work with the XWPro.

 

[hwy17]

Do you think a Victron shunt would be good to add to a Schneider system?

I actually wouldn't know. I don't have one and have not considered adding one to my schneider system if that's an answer, but I just know that victron people adore them for victron applications.

 

[hwy17]

I can view SOC and all other data coming from the battery. However, the SOC on the Batt Mon doesn't communicate with the AGS SOC settings

Does your generator accept two wire run signal? Is it possible to just get rid of the AGS and use the dry contact relay on the InsightHome? I don't have an automatic generator so I'm just thinking here, not experienced.

Or I wonder if the AGS is performing starting functions, whether the dry contact relay on the InsightHome could be used to run signal to the AGS.

 

[BentleyJ]

You ask a good question. I have a couple of thoughts on the subject based on the modbus maps I've been using setting up Node-Red recently. Need to do some research. More to follow.

 

[BentleyJ]

After reviewing the Modbus maps regarding the question of "SoC from 3rd party devices not communicating with AGS SoC setpoints". Here are few observations of questionable value.

1) I'm reasonably sure upgrading to the XW Pro will not solve your problem. Reason: I'm currently running a ComBox and an InsightHome on the same XW+ inverter. What I've observed is the Modbus functionality is actually happening inside the gatway device itself, whether it be the ComBox or InsightHome. Somewhat long explanation available upon request. Has to do with Xanbus vs. Modbus functions.

2) The newer Schneider Battery Monitor System Modbus map documentation 990-913448, specifically lists Li-ion batteries in the title. This strongly suggests that Xanbus generated SoC values from the Batt Mon would in fact be useful to trigger Auto Start functions on the AGS.

3) Legacy Modbus Maps from the ComBox at port 502 were moved to port 503, (appears to be entirely verbatium based on non-exhaustive review) on the InsightHome and Port 502 on InsightHome is now used for all new functionality dealing with UL1741SB grid interactivity/functionality and 3rd party Battery BMS data. Its likely that the new Modbus registers that hold SoC values from BMS coms may not be backwards compatible with the AGS and Battery Monitor which as far as I can tell use Xanbus exclusively. Reason: While Legacy systems do have a ModBus register specifically for SoC values that were transferred over from Xanbus, it is a different register than the ones being used for BMS coms on the new systems.

4) Bad news: All the Modbus registers having to do with SoC values seem to be read only so there would be no way to even Write a value to the necessary Modbus SoC register.

 

[Logsled]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Bentley. After researching, I've decided to integrate the BattMon with my system. I will let you know how it works out.

 

[Rossman]

Thanks for the in-depth reply Bentley. After researching, I've decided to integrate the BattMon with my system. I will let you know how it works out.

As a fellow legacy XW owner I am fairly certain an upgraded XW is required. When I had the Conext Battery Monitor set up with my FLA battery bank, the SoC triggers in the AGS would not start the generator properly. It doesn't work any better without the Conext Battery Monitor but with Lithium BMS communications (SoC reporting).

The XW seems to be the key device that needs to also understand SoC.

If your research proves this incorrect please do post back with an update!

 

[extrafu]

I just want to pitch in my findings... I have a XW+6848 (*not* a Pro), Conext MPPTs, AGS, BattMon and InsightHome.

The SOC triggers available from the AGS do work for starting and stopping the generator. Since I don't have closed-loop communications with my BMS, it relies on the SOC calculated by the BattMon.

On the BattMon, you can set the Peukert exponent to 1, increase charge efficiency to 100%, disable temperature impacts, etc. and from what I've seen, the BattMon (with its shunt being used) shows virtually the same SOC that my BMS shows - the difference has been no more than 1% in the past few days.

The new BattMon literature suggests settings for Lithium-based batteries.

 

[robbob2112]

I just want to pitch in my findings... I have a XW+6848 (*not* a Pro), Conext MPPTs, AGS, BattMon and InsightHome.

The SOC triggers available from the AGS do work for starting and stopping the generator. Since I don't have closed-loop communications with my BMS, it relies on the SOC calculated by the BattMon.

On the BattMon, you can set the Peukert exponent to 1, increase charge efficiency to 100%, disable temperature impacts, etc. and from what I've seen, the BattMon (with its shunt being used) shows virtually the same SOC that my BMS shows - the difference has been no more than 1% in the past few days.

The new BattMon literature suggests settings for Lithium-based batteries.

So, if you had it to do over again would you do the BatMon with LFP batteries? Is there a benefit equal to the high cost?

I have an XW Pro system on the way, currently have a 2524 system.... the BatMon is something I have waffled on - I can get the SOC from the victron shunts I already have... so the only thing the BatMon would add is the ability for the Inverter to know what the SOC is

 

[extrafu]

If I would do it over again today, I would have like you have, an XW Pro which supports closed-loop communications with BMS. My XW+ does not so getting the SOC from the BattMon is my only option for now.

I plan to use a Raspberry Pi and monitor the SOC from all four JK BMS and see how it deviates from the BattMon, and potentially react (like start the generator, easy to do over modbus TCP with the Conext InsightHome).

An other idea I had with the Raspberry PI was to monitor the individual SOC of each pack. Since I have four, they seem to slight drift apart. I could turn off over modbus the discharge feature of the lowest SOC BMS overnight (and the 2nd one after and so on), to keep things balanced. Might be a very nice feature to utilize all cells from the four packs correctly.