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Schneider SW4024 initial review/use with Victron MPPT

Solar Steve

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Jun 5, 2021
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North Carolina
I haven't seen much out there on the Schneider SW4024 recently so I thought I would share my initial impressions after getting it installed. My primary reason (as usual) for a split phase inverter was to be able to start my well pump. This inverter is rated at 3400W continuous but 7000W for a 5 second surge, which I hoped would be adequate, but it's hard to accurately measure the surge current required to start a motor. The pump is a 3/4HP which draws roughly 1500W continuous, but measurements of the inrush current with a clamp meter were all over the place, from 8 A to 27A, the clamp meter is simply not fast enough.

After installation I was happy to discover that this unit had no problems starting the well pump, although at start up it did pull a massive amount of current from the batteries. I'm using 24V 280Ah home built battery (EVE cells) with two separate JBD BMSs, the maximum long duration current on these is 120A, fortunately the surge on the well pump was short enough to not trip the overcurrent protection.

The Schneider is not the cheapest option - to the base price you need to add a connection box of some kind which adds about $300 to the cost. Best option for control is the Schneider Insight Gateway, which in spite of some poor reviews seems to work fine, with both the web connect app and mobile app. The optional DC switchgear (added box on the left below) adds a convenient place for the DC breakers but not much else.

Will post more as I learn more about it.



SW4024.jpg
 
I forgot to mention - does anyone have experience using the Victron MPPT Smart Solar series with the Schneider inverter? I don't really expect that I'll be able to connect the Xanbus (Schneider proprietary interface) to the Victron, just wondering about settings that will allow the built in battery charger of the SW4024 to be used in conjunction with the MPPT without interference - the manual is mute on the point of using a non-Xanbus charge controller.
 
I forgot to mention - does anyone have experience using the Victron MPPT Smart Solar series with the Schneider inverter? I don't really expect that I'll be able to connect the Xanbus (Schneider proprietary interface) to the Victron, just wondering about settings that will allow the built in battery charger of the SW4024 to be used in conjunction with the MPPT without interference - the manual is mute on the point of using a non-Xanbus charge controller.
Congrats on the SW4024. I've been running my off-grid home with one for over 5 years... ac and dc coupled with Schneider SCCs and Enphase m215s. Starts and runs mini-splits, fridges, washer/dryers, toasters, et. al. As to the charging function - you should be fine as long as your various charging parameters are aligned rationally. Untied from xanbus, each unit will react to the battery voltage as individually read - without regard to what the other unit is doing.The setup menus can be complicated, so a careful reading of the manuals is advised. The SW internal charger does not engage unless you are sending utility, generator or AC coupled inverter power to the unit. Best.
 
Thanks - glad to hear that you've been satisfied with long term operation. I assumed I would need to fiddle with the charging parameters to make it work - most likely I will just leave the charger disconnected unless I need it.

Any quirks of operation or failures that you've noticed?
 
Be aware of "bulk termination voltage" - it can be set up to .08 lower than bulk voltage. It affects charging behavior - mostly in context to float/absorption when in combination with a SCC. Different forums have discussions on that interaction. Also, check to see that you have the latest firmware - and follow any firmware upgrade instructions EXACTLY. Read up completely on that process before you attempt it... done wrong, it can brick your unit (thankfully, it's recoverable - don't ask me how I know). Great unit - durable, capable hardware, but the powerful software can be complicated to understand/finesse. Best.
 
After a couple weeks of operation I thought I would share a few more notes on the SW4024. First, the inverter has, so far as I can tell, functioned flawlessly. It starts all the loads I want it to, and for medium to large loads has good efficiency, >90%. I chose this as it seemed to be by far the most well established inverter model that offered split phase operation. I would have preferred Victron but they don't make an easy option for this.

The software, though, is living up to the poor reviews. Using the Insight Gateway I was able to connect to the cloud service, as well as connecting directly to the Gateway through a locally generated WiFi network. The cloud service (Insight Cloud) is pretty much useless. Updates are far too slow and unreliable. The mobile app - (InsightMobile) seems to have somewhat faster updates but frequently shows the wrong values (for current consumption or load, for example). Local access is by far the most useful, and although the software is a bit clunky you can get useful graphs, data, and control. I've attached a screen capture showing minute by minute battery consumption. Easy to see where the septic pump kicks on, but I think the stuff at the top is just noise that doesn't show on other measurements of current consumption.

In general I have found the measurements using the local app to agree well with measurements using a Victron shunt, but of course you need to connect a computer to this locally generated WiFi, which also seems to occasionally drop out for no reason.


Schneider_Insight_screen2.PNG
 
Although I have been critical of the Schneider software and support myself with my SW4048 system my disdain has mellowed over the past year of 24/7 continuous service.

The ComBox and Insight website have been rock solid - for me - over the past year allowing me to keep an eye on things from various places around the US.

I also have a Victron 250/60 MPPT, SmartShunt, and CerboGX on the same system. The CerboGX has disconnected from the VRM portal multiple times over the past year.

AFAIK you can only reconnect the CerboGX locally which I have become adept at. Unfortunately one time it disconnected one day after I hit the road for over a month so I was blind for that time.

And I still haven’t figured out what the problem is with the CerboGX but I am glad to have Insight for the limited information it has consistently provided on a continuous basis.
 
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I also have a Victron 250/60 MPPT, SmartShunt, and CerboGX on the same system. The CerboGX has disconnected from the VRM portal multiple times over the past year.
Curious if you are using wifi or ethernet connection for the CerboGX?
 
Maybe my expectations for the online software were too high. It does an adequate job of reporting daily totals for load and battery consumption, but is not useful for showing me instantaneous details. I wonder if the CerboGX (when the connection works) does a better job of minute by minute updates.
 
I will note that the Insight website seems to be primarily set up for installers instead of the DIY market.

For example, I could set up 100 different sites to monitor from one login but unfortunately, I only have one :( .

IF you did have 100 sites you probably wouldn't want to use the bandwidth to have them all report real-time. Also, given that many sites might be truly off-grid the customers might not want to pay for the required cellphone charges associated with it. I am just guessing though.

I cannot recall when I did my initial setup via the ComBox if I could set how often my inverter reports into Insight but I will try to find time this weekend to connect locally and look for a setting.

I just left the Insight website on for a while and noticed that my inverter reports in every 10 minutes which is more than adequate for my needs.

I vaguely recall I may have set it that way.
 
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I wonder if the CerboGX (when the connection works) does a better job of minute by minute updates.
The online VRM portal has a configurable log interval with statement in manual:
Set to anything between 1 minute and 1 day. Choose longer times on systems with an unreliable connection. Note that this setting does not affect reporting problems and state changes (bulk → absorption) to the VRM Portal. These events initiate an immediate transmission of all parameters.
If you connect to the server directly on the CerboGX the browser window appears to be updating with new values every second.
 
Ok, so I have a pair of SW4024`s and I cant get them to do what I want them to do. I replaced a pair of Trace models with these newer models.
I have grid power attached. The way I had the old units set up was when the batteries got low, 23.8, it would switch to the grid. I cant figure out how to make these new units do that.
Any help would be appreciated
 

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This may be an issue relevant to some of the things that @GXMnow has been experiencing with his XW setup. Since I am off grid and using a single SW4024/Combox/Schneider solar charge controller, I'm not exactly sure what your particular setup would require. Recharge voltage is usually the most relevant setting - and I don't use grid/load support features... Thanks for the heads up on the stacking fix.
 
You're welcome. I`ll have a look at the recharge voltage. I`m shure this will work the way I want it too... I just need to fine tune it
 
btw, I have a 20yr-old Trace SW4024 that runs my well pump; Built like a tank and still runs like a clock.
 
I haven't seen much out there on the Schneider SW4024 recently so I thought I would share my initial impressions after getting it installed. My primary reason (as usual) for a split phase inverter was to be able to start my well pump. This inverter is rated at 3400W continuous but 7000W for a 5 second surge, which I hoped would be adequate, but it's hard to accurately measure the surge current required to start a motor. The pump is a 3/4HP which draws roughly 1500W continuous, but measurements of the inrush current with a clamp meter were all over the place, from 8 A to 27A, the clamp meter is simply not fast enough.

After installation I was happy to discover that this unit had no problems starting the well pump, although at start up it did pull a massive amount of current from the batteries. I'm using 24V 280Ah home built battery (EVE cells) with two separate JBD BMSs, the maximum long duration current on these is 120A, fortunately the surge on the well pump was short enough to not trip the overcurrent protection.

The Schneider is not the cheapest option - to the base price you need to add a connection box of some kind which adds about $300 to the cost. Best option for control is the Schneider Insight Gateway, which in spite of some poor reviews seems to work fine, with both the web connect app and mobile app. The optional DC switchgear (added box on the left below) adds a convenient place for the DC breakers but not much else.

Will post more as I learn more about it.



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I'm not sure how I didn't see this post when you posted it. Sorry for coming in late.

First off: My nickname became "Solar Steve" in my family when I was put in charge of doing the design and most of the install of our Schneider-based system. Anyway, I like you handle @Solar Steve.

In 2016 I purchased an SW4024, an SCP, and the MPPT60-150. They all got installed at our Colorado mountain cabin in the summer of 2017. We've been using it since then.

On the plus side: We were originally worried about our well pump too. It's a 120V, 1/2hp pump that is now almost 50 years old. We had always used a 5500W Honda generator before, and it had really sagged when the pump turned on. The SW4024 doesn't even miss a beat. The humming gets a little louder briefly, but we never even get the fan to turn on. It has really been rock solid. All of their equipment is built better than I could have expected, and at a reasonable cost.

On the downside: Schneider made a decision some time ago that they were really not interested in DIYers, or even consumers with their products. I think they decided that it made more sense for them to deal only with certified (by them) installers. That means if you have a question and need some help, you are SOL. This is also reflected in their engineering, where they are essentially the "anti-Victron". I can't imagine them ever providing a Bluetooth access to any of their devices, much less an open source, Linux based central control and monitoring. It'll never happen.

I had a period a couple of summers ago where if we ran the generator while the SCC was cranking out power as well, the inverter transfer switch would go back and forth and never actually charge the battery. This sounds somewhat similar to what @GVSolar described in post #5 above. I tried everything I could to get some help from Schneider, but it was useless. Another user eventually suggested that I set the SCC bulk/absorption voltage a bit lower than the charger, and somehow that fixed it. That does sound like what @GVSolar said, doesn't it?
 
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