Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Mahendra Gomanie]

To be specific Alex is tech support .
But he was out for the last few calls.
So there was no tech.
I dont mean to bash but i had way better tech support on the forum that is why i keep putting it out here.
I also mentioned i did not turn off the Outback inverter since it was commissioned.
I was forced to attend to it today because it shut down with no warning and is not tur ing on back.
The Xantrex is in a repair shop.

 

[Koldsimer]

When did I imply we weren't aware of his issue? I specifically said that I was aware of his multiple posts but that he hasn't PM'd me with any details about his set up, or called our free tech support line for troubleshooting, or really anything that would allow me to track a ticket in any meaningful manner. I have, quite literally, on multiple occasions, very clearly stated that if someone is having this issue to PM me directly so I could gather more information. I don't know his real name, if it was ordered by him or his friend where it's installed, the order number so I can look it up, or anything until today when he PM'd me and provided the video. Everyone is more than welcome to go through this post (and the others regarding this issue) to see with 100% transparency the many times I've asked for this - I have not and will not ever delete any of my forum posts so I am 100% transparent in what I said and when I said it. I'm happy that we can finally work towards a solution for this user, whatever it may be. Not to mention the multiple other people who have PM'd me and I took care of without coming on here and making a whole public spectacle of it.

If you were aware of his problem, why didn't you take the initiative to create ticket? Maybe if you had done this months ago, when you were aware he was having issues, you wouldn't be here today having to defend yourself and your inaction for mahindra in a thread like this. Call tech support? Laughable. You have admitted they were under staffed and not adequate in multiple ways. I cant count how many times i waited to speak to someone only to be told to leave a message or call back. And you think this is bashing your company and making a public spectacle? It's simply sharing my experience and how horrible it was. Hopefully you guys have gotten better.

I honestly don't know what to say at this point beyond I'm here to help, I'm one of the ONLY suppliers/manufacturers/installers who even care enough to post on the forums, and that will always be the case. Hopefully at some point the bashing of myself and SS as a company stop because we are doing our best to help people, we are one of the few companies that even care enough to be present on this forum, and for every person out there who simply logs in to write a snide comment about me or SS, there are dozens of others who PM me or call in or email me letting me know how much they appreciate the fact that we are present on the forums. I really wish you the best and know the LL batteries will treat you and your system well for years to come.

Surprised to hear you call yourself an installer.

Believe it or not, i do appreciate your presence on this forum. It was the only way i was able to get my situation finally resolved. Emails and phone calls were not able to make progress or resolve anything.

And i appreciate the fact that you and James or whoever finally made the right call and traded my batteries for ones that have never had this issue. Even with the "open box/used battery" swaperoo you tried.

Problem for you guys as i see it is that every week a new user jumps on this thread and details their similar disappointing experience with batteries that wont start their inverter. I wish this thread died long ago but your lifepower batteries just wont let it.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

If you were aware of his problem, why didn't you take the initiative to create ticket? Maybe if you had done this months ago, when you were aware he was having issues, you wouldn't be here today having to defend yourself and your inaction for mahindra in a thread like this. Call tech support? Laughable. You have admitted they were under staffed and not adequate in multiple ways. I cant count how many times i waited to speak to someone only to be told to leave a message or call back. And you think this is bashing your company and making a public spectacle? It's simply sharing my experience and how horrible it was. Hopefully you guys have gotten better.

Surprised to hear you call yourself an installer.

Believe it or not, i do appreciate your presence on this forum. It was the only way i was able to get my situation finally resolved. Emails and phone calls were not able to make progress or resolve anything.

And i appreciate the fact that you and James or whoever finally made the right call and traded my batteries for ones that have never had this issue. Even with the "open box/used battery" swaperoo you tried.

Problem for you guys as i see it is that every week a new user jumps on this thread and details their similar disappointing experience with batteries that wont start their inverter. I wish this thread died long ago but your lifepower batteries just wont let it.

I must say ticket or no ticket.
I feel frustrated disenfranchised angry all at the same rime from my first call to SS since 16th Feb .

This is exactly how i was made to feel as and even after trying.
You claim to offer assistance .
I offered info and was willing to give more . I ask what do you need to know from the begining but you did not listened its recorded here on this forum.
And the free call to your support is next to nothing .
I dont know what to say or do at this point because after several investment the issue is still there.How can i not say its the batteries after i redo and replace everything ?

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

If you were aware of his problem, why didn't you take the initiative to create ticket? Maybe if you had done this months ago, when you were aware he was having issues, you wouldn't be here today having to defend yourself and your inaction for mahindra in a thread like this. Call tech support? Laughable. You have admitted they were under staffed and not adequate in multiple ways. I cant count how many times i waited to speak to someone only to be told to leave a message or call back. And you think this is bashing your company and making a public spectacle? It's simply sharing my experience and how horrible it was. Hopefully you guys have gotten better.

Surprised to hear you call yourself an installer.

Believe it or not, i do appreciate your presence on this forum. It was the only way i was able to get my situation finally resolved. Emails and phone calls were not able to make progress or resolve anything.

And i appreciate the fact that you and James or whoever finally made the right call and traded my batteries for ones that have never had this issue. Even with the "open box/used battery" swaperoo you tried.

Problem for you guys as i see it is that every week a new user jumps on this thread and details their similar disappointing experience with batteries that wont start their inverter. I wish this thread died long ago but your lifepower batteries just wont let it.

Create a ticket with what exactly? His forum username? I told him to PM me his info, order number, etc so I could look into it and he never did. Should I beg him to provide me the info? Literally within minutes of him PMing me I started doing research and looking into the issue for him. Yes, we were growing at an exponential rate, and we've fixed that issue for a majority of issues months ago.
I didn't say we were an installer (we definitely aren't). My statement was that of all the manufacturers/retailers/installers and whatever other types of companies related to solar that are out there, I hardly hear a peep out of any of them other than Dexter from Current Connected. In fact, the only time I ever see any of them on this forum they are simply shilling their products which is why Will deleted most of their accounts, but surprisingly my account remains.

I must say ticket or no ticket.
I feel frustrated disenfranchised angry all at the same rime from my first call to SS since 16th Feb .

This is exactly how i was made to feel as and even after trying.
You claim to offer assistance .
I offered info and was willing to give more . I ask what do you need to know from the begining but you did not listened its recorded here on this forum.
And the free call to your support is next to nothing .
I dont know what to say or do at this point because after several investment the issue is still there.How can i not say its the batteries after i redo and replace everything ?

I don't know what more to say man. I asked you multiple times to message me and you didn't, I had no way of knowing you called because the name on your order doesn't match your username here, I had no way of knowing you had already contacted my support. A majority of your posts are you jumping in, saying you have a problem with the batteries and making a comment about me or SS. When you sent me a PM, it took me FOUR MINUTES to respond and get the ball rolling, because I finally had information to start researching. I really don't know how you expected me to know you called on the 16th because you simply never told me. I REALLY do want to help you and if that means refunding your purchase so you can buy a battery that does work with your system, that's what I'll do. I just need a LITTLE bit of help so I can get it done for you. You are right - the MULTIPLE TIMES I asked people to PM me info so I can help, told everyone to send me their order number etc so I could start researching for them are all recorded. And until yesterday, you hadn't. Regardless of all of the comments and ongoing discussions about myself and SS that you made, I'm here to 100% help you. Because, that's who I am - I just want to help people, I just want the solar industry to grow, and I just want to make all our lives easier and better.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

SS EG4 12V 400AH - Disappointing BMS

The EG4 400AH 12V battery from Signature Solar is a beast at first glance. Its well put together but lacks the delivery you would expect with such a big battery. The documentation provided by Signature Solar shows a circuit breaker on the battery face. There isn't one on the battery they...

diysolarforum.com

Is this an extension of these issues?

 

[ChrisG]

Is this video from @RichardfromSignatureSolar the overall issue with the Signature Solar batteries and the Conext inverter:

Seems the inverter shuts down with load, could be BMS related as others have noted.

 

[merritt2828]

I tried powering up in the opposite order than the manual suggests, and the EG4 successfully started the magnum 4448 and classic 150 at the same time.

While I had power down, I did some investigating. Way earlier in this post, someone asked about the resistor. It is a 10.3 ohm (measured) 200 watt resistor. View attachment 83541The precharge circuit is enabled by a separate board with a 12v relay, and yes, there is full battery voltage on that board...(SS, you want to explain?)View attachment 83540

It appears that the precharge circuit is in parallel with the FETs. I measured the resistance during boot up between the battery negative and negative post, expecting to see 10.3 ohms, followed by 0 ohms. Instead, after a 4 second boot up with high resistance, it read 0 ohms for about 4 seconds, then 3 ohms....and stayed that way. I would think that the 0 ohms would be causing some people's problems, but mine booted up good by turning on the battery last. So I'm little confused.

Anyway, here's an overall shot.View attachment 83539

Seems like changes are being made to the battery in the last couple of months. Note my photo of the precharge resistor control board above, as well as my note about SS using a 12v relay. If you watch the teardown from LithiumSolar on YT that was posted 3 days ago, you'll notice the relay has been replaced by 2 FETs. Makes me wonder about configuration management and different results people will see with the "same" battery.

I will also say, my EG4 is still performing fine.

 

[robby]

Is this video from @RichardfromSignatureSolar the overall issue with the Signature Solar batteries and the Conext inverter:

Seems the inverter shuts down with load, could be BMS related as others have noted.

Wow I never noticed that part of the video, it tripped off twice!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Wow I never noticed that part of the video, it tripped off twice!

1st trip: He started the dryer before the additional 2 batteries turned on fully so it was trying to pull too much from a single battery.
2nd trip: I don't remember off the top of my head as it's been such a long time, but I'll see if I can get them to set up the experiment again to see what had happened. I do recall that after we looked at the specs there was an issue with the inrush current or something along those lines, it's just been too long for me to remember off the top of my head.

 

[robby]

1st trip: He started the dryer before the additional 2 batteries turned on fully so it was trying to pull too much from a single battery.

1800W heater is about 32Amps. That should not trip the battery.

2nd trip: I don't remember off the top of my head as it's been such a long time, but I'll see if I can get them to set up the experiment again to see what had happened. I do recall that after we looked at the specs there was an issue with the inrush current or something along those lines, it's just been too long for me to remember off the top of my head.

That second test you may have had about 3000W of load in the Inverter and it tripped!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

1800W heater is about 32Amps. That should not trip the battery.

That second test you may have had about 3000W of load in the Inverter and it tripped!

I'll go back and research this further. That being said, the original purpose of the video was showing the battery would start the inverter because at the time that was the issue being reported. I'll get with my team next week and see if we can put some solid numbers down about what is going on regarding the shut down and other issues. The heater plus the dryer did exceed the maximum amps from a single battery I believe but again, it's been a long time so I'll have to verify and get back to you.

 

[Koldsimer]

Just wanted to update this thread and let everyone know that i had the chance to try the new SOK 48v 100ah battery on my system. Long story short, one battery fired my system right up and it even powered a 5kw load with no problem.

I couldn't be more impressed with this battery. The build quality is by far the best in the industry and it has some really nice, unique features- better bms interface with more info, better cell packaging, end user serviceable cells, post style terminals that offer more thread engagement for less susceptibility to stripping threads, factory inspection sheet, etc..

Not to mention the obvious- it fires up my system perfectly with zero issues.

Even if it had issues with the pre-charge timing, i'm confident that @HighTechLab has the ability to change these and other parameters to suit any system.

 

[ChrisG]

Just wanted to update this thread and let everyone know that i had the chance to try the new SOK 48v 100ah battery on my system. Long story short, one battery fired my system right up and it even powered a 5kw load with no problem.

I couldn't be more impressed with this battery. The build quality is by far the best in the industry and it has some really nice, unique features- better bms interface with more info, better cell packaging, end user serviceable cells, post style terminals that offer more thread engagement for less susceptibility to stripping threads, factory inspection sheet, etc..

Not to mention the obvious- it fires up my system perfectly with zero issues.

Even if it had issues with the pre-charge timing, i'm confident that @HighTechLab has the ability to change these and other parameters to suit any system.

That’s great to know. Are these batteries UL Listed and can they be BMS integrated with Xw? The recent SS if XW integration and UL listing is appealing once they fully appreciate the issues with their batteries.

 

[HighTechLab]

Just wanted to update this thread and let everyone know that i had the chance to try the new SOK 48v 100ah battery on my system. Long story short, one battery fired my system right up and it even powered a 5kw load with no problem.

I couldn't be more impressed with this battery. The build quality is by far the best in the industry and it has some really nice, unique features- better bms interface with more info, better cell packaging, end user serviceable cells, post style terminals that offer more thread engagement for less susceptibility to stripping threads, factory inspection sheet, etc..

Not to mention the obvious- it fires up my system perfectly with zero issues.

Even if it had issues with the pre-charge timing, i'm confident that @HighTechLab has the ability to change these and other parameters to suit any system.

In testing, I had my tesla model 3 plugged into a Sol-Ark 5k fed with 1 battery and set the input current limit bang on 5kw. From there, I did a 1c full discharge, immediately after discharging, hooked Sol-Ark to grid, did a .8C charge, then immediately another 1c drain. No thermal issues whatsoever. 5kw per battery should never be a problem.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

That’s great to know. Are these batteries UL Listed and can they be BMS integrated with Xw? The recent SS if XW integration and UL listing is appealing once they fully appreciate the issues with their batteries.

I think the cells are listed, they use cells likely from the same manufacturer we use. I don't know of any other server rack batteries that are fully UL Listed as a complete unit like ours are. Also, fun fact, Signature Solar just partnered directly with Schneider after several months of working together - they just finished training on site this last week at SS offices and showing the staff there all about their products, and I had the pleasure of working alongside them for demos with our batteries and connecting to about 10 different units (there were no issues in startups at all). SS now offers Schneider products directly from their website.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I think the cells are listed, they use cells likely from the same manufacturer we use. I don't know of any other server rack batteries that are fully UL Listed as a complete unit like ours are. Also, fun fact, Signature Solar just partnered directly with Schneider after several months of working together - they just finished training on site this last week at SS offices and showing the staff there all about their products, and I had the pleasure of working alongside them for demos with our batteries and connecting to about 10 different units (there were no issues in startups at all). SS now offers Schneider products directly from their website.

Congrats to Signature Solar for picking up a Professional line of Solar equipment, Schneider. So with this new partnership, when can we expect the EG4 LL and EG4 LifePower batteries to have closed loop communication with the XW PRO line of inverters? Surely that is a top priority, now that you are selling Schneider inverters and bragging about them working with your batteries..

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Congrats to Signature Solar for picking up a Professional line of Solar equipment, Schneider. So with this new partnership, when can we expect the EG4 LL and EG4 LifePower batteries to have closed loop communication with the XW PRO line of inverters? Surely that is a top priority, now that you are selling Schneider inverters and bragging about them working with your batteries..

There are tons of factors that go into play for closed loop comms (who changes programming parameters, settings, etc) plus the time it takes to remanufacture updates and develop a firmware package as necessary. It's work we are investing in though.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Just wanted to update this thread and let everyone know that i had the chance to try the new SOK 48v 100ah battery on my system. Long story short, one battery fired my system right up and it even powered a 5kw load with no problem.

I couldn't be more impressed with this battery. The build quality is by far the best in the industry and it has some really nice, unique features- better bms interface with more info, better cell packaging, end user serviceable cells, post style terminals that offer more thread engagement for less susceptibility to stripping threads, factory inspection sheet, etc..

Not to mention the obvious- it fires up my system perfectly with zero issues.

Even if it had issues with the pre-charge timing, i'm confident that @HighTechLab has the ability to change these and other parameters to suit any system.

Thats is what lithoum is suppose to since most have a 2c rating

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Don’t know if this helps. But look what Will does with the reset button.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

And WOW! Almost 50 pages now.