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Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

It is sooooo frustrating to not be able to get an answer for something as basic as this.
Are those EG4 batteries actually UL listed or just TUV certified like their inverters. If so is it the NEC2020 spec UL9450?
 
In the video, he dances around something I have been wondering about since they released the EG4 batteries.

The LiFePower4 battery manual has this:

View attachment 102478

A single 48V 6500W inverter running with 100% efficiency will draw 135A. At a more realistic 95% efficiency that goes up to 143A.

The spec says 100A max so two of them can drive a single 6500W inverter. However, what the heck does the "30A Recommended" mean???
If I go by the recommendation I would need 143A/30A/Battery=4.75 or 5 of the EG4 batteries!!!

I have seen this question asked several times but I have never seen an answer.
Exactly and that is why the only people who seem to have no issue are the ones running 5 to 6 of these batteries.
For other people it is a mixed bag of results.
 
There's more than one way to precharge an inverter.

A resistor across a breaker is the probability the best choice.

Do a forum search for precharge and you'll probably come up with hundreds of options from using an incandescent light bulb, long run of small gauge wire...
People tried that with the EG4 LifePower and it did not work for many of them, it seems to be related to some sort of timing issue. Most people had luck using another battery to Precharge and then switching on the EG4. And another set of people have the batteries tripping out when a sudden load is put on them. Lots of threads on the subject, this one has not made the rounds for awhile.

To answer another question the OP had to battle for his life to get them to exchange them for four EG4LL and even then he had to drive them to their warehouse and then they tried to give him used batteries which he would not accept. So they ended up giving him new batteries.
If he had not been there in person he would have gotten used batteries.
 
So all of this EG4 battery crap was because the batteries didn’t precharge the way the are supposed to? Watched Richard’s video several times.
That is a slight misrepresentation. EG4 does provide a pre-charge resistor, which is a good thing. The problem is that it cannot be tuned for different inverter requirements, and as you stage multiple units the results might vary. You also need a minimum number of batteries (independent of kWh requirements for load) to support the inverter itself.

Part of me wonders if just having a very small 48V lead-acid battery on the line prior to engaging the EG4 batteries is the smartest solution. It wouldn't help if the inverter starts up automatically.
 
It wouldn't help if the inverter starts up automatically.
Once the inverter is successfully connected to the battery and capacitors are charged, the inverter can be turned on and off with no problem. The capacitors are directly on the DC Battery input and will remain charged as long as the battery is left connected.
 
People tried that with the EG4 LifePower and it did not work for many of them, it seems to be related to some sort of timing issue.
I haven't been following this closely, I didn't see anyone attempt an external pre-charge resistor.
I must have missed it. But, I can't understand how the battery could fail a 5-15 amp precharge, but support a 95 amp load.
Most people had luck using another battery to Precharge and then switching on the EG4. And another set of people have the batteries tripping out when a sudden load is put on them.
Yeah, that's a sad one. Some of those at people not reading the spec sheet and expecting to pull more than the max amps. But, definitely a portion when the battery seems to go into protection well below rated current.
Lots of threads on the subject, this one has not made the rounds for awhile.
 
Are those EG4 batteries actually UL listed or just TUV certified like their inverters. If so is it the NEC2020 spec UL9450?
NEC 2020 does not explicitly require UL 9450 (for good reason). Expect it to be explicitly required in 2023 or 2026 code though.

EG4 battery is UL 1973
 
Once the inverter is successfully connected to the battery and capacitors are charged, the inverter can be turned on and off with no problem. The capacitors are directly on the DC Battery input and will remain charged as long as the battery is left connected.
OP had an issue at some point (IIRC) where the inverter was starting up (possibly not supporting load). As I understand it, the XW-Pro has "off" - no power on DC bus; "on" - power on DC bus, capacitors charged, but not inverting; and "enabled" - inverting per settings. Switching to that "on" state caused a low-voltage shutdown on the inverter. [I could be mixing up my threads at this point though.]
 
OP had an issue at some point (IIRC) where the inverter was starting up (possibly not supporting load). As I understand it, the XW-Pro has "off" - no power on DC bus; "on" - power on DC bus, capacitors charged, but not inverting; and "enabled" - inverting per settings. Switching to that "on" state caused a low-voltage shutdown on the inverter. [I could be mixing up my threads at this point though.]
I would be surprised if the inverter can cut the battery input from the capacitors. That would mean it had either a huge contactor or a huge bank of FETs between the battery input posts and the capacitors. It would be the only one I have ever seen that had anything like that.
 
I haven't been following this closely, I didn't see anyone attempt an external pre-charge resistor.
I must have missed it. But, I can't understand how the battery could fail a 5-15 amp precharge, but support a 95 amp load.
Because of the way the EG4 works it of course puts it's own Precharge resistor inline first, so your external resistor ends up being in series with it which then lowers the current. Then the second issue is that in several cases it seems to shutoff the power before the Inverter bank can charge up enough. It's like a timer is set and when it ends the Inverter measures the terminal voltage and if is not high enough it just goes offline. It's been awhile so I might have gotten some detail wrong, but bottom line is that people tried it with no luck and Signatur Solar never could produce a method for changing the timing in the menu.
 
I would be surprised if the inverter can cut the battery input from the capacitors. That would mean it had either a huge contactor or a huge bank of FETs between the battery input posts and the capacitors. It would be the only one I have ever seen that had anything like that.
The FETS on the BMS are not switched on until a separate relay going directly from the batteries to the Precharge resistor times out. The issue seems to be that the BMS monitors the voltage on the terminals after the timeout and if it is not high enough the FETs never get switched on.
 
The FETS on the BMS are not switched on until a separate relay going directly from the batteries to the Precharge resistor times out. The issue seems to be that the BMS monitors the voltage on the terminals after the timeout and if it is not high enough the FETs never get switched on.
I understand that..... I was replying to @Shimmy
As I understand it, the XW-Pro has "off" - no power on DC bus; "on" - power on DC bus, capacitors charged, but not inverting; and "enabled" -
(The XW-Pro is an inverter from Schnider).

I was saying that to have a state where the inverter is hooked up but no power on the capacitors, the XW-Pro would need a big relay or a big bank of FETS between the Battery inputs and the capacitors..... and I would be very surprised if it did.
 
I was saying that to have a state where the inverter is hooked up but no power on the capacitors, the XW-Pro would need a big relay or a big bank of FETS between the Battery inputs and the capacitors..... and I would be very surprised if it did.
I'm just referring to a dead (common) DC-bus state as "off." What one troubleshooting step suggested was that the when @Koldsimer (or another person posting on this thread) was that the inverter was actually starting up into its standby state and that somehow disqualified the DC input and threw an error, presumably without enabling the inverter.

At the time, it was postulated that the only way that would happen is if the pre-charge resistor was still engaged.
 
OP had an issue at some point (IIRC) where the inverter was starting up (possibly not supporting load). As I understand it, the XW-Pro has "off" - no power on DC bus; "on" - power on DC bus, capacitors charged, but not inverting; and "enabled" - inverting per settings. Switching to that "on" state caused a low-voltage shutdown on the inverter. [I could be mixing up my threads at this point though.]
The inverter would not start under any conditions with the lifepower 4 batteries. I tried every possible combination multiple times to no avail. The xw pro requires dc power to fire up and the lifepower couldn't deliver. No problems starting with SOK, Discover and Crown batteries. Signature never could figure it out and it tool them 6 months to even answer how the pre-charge is initiated. Still not convinced they have any real clue.
 
I hadn't seen than either.

Immediate stumble:
"To start your precharge you need an open electrical connection to your inverters" he then proceeded to describe the opposite of an open...
Yes yes I've been decimated in the comments on Youtube. I immediately realized the error I made and explained what I meant on the video.
 
In the video, he dances around something I have been wondering about since they released the EG4 batteries.

The LiFePower4 battery manual has this:

View attachment 102478

A single 48V 6500W inverter running with 100% efficiency will draw 135A. At a more realistic 95% efficiency that goes up to 143A.

The spec says 100A max so two of them can drive a single 6500W inverter. However, what the heck does the "30A Recommended" mean???
If I go by the recommendation I would need 143A/30A/Battery=4.75 or 5 of the EG4 batteries!!!

I have seen this question asked several times but I have never seen an answer.
Ya, I've actually asked the engineers this at one point but it was overlooked. I'm going to press them more on this.
 
Also - I'd like to point out the Schneider actually partnered with Signature Solar as an authorized retailer. They had several Schneider reps on site for a week and they ran our batteries through the ringer on their inverters and never had any issues. But, we are also working with our engineering team on some firmware things to make the batteries happier for longer until some of these units with a longer startup process can get into a ready status. Lots of movement on this in the last few weeks.
 
Also - I'd like to point out the Schneider actually partnered with Signature Solar as an authorized retailer. They had several Schneider reps on site for a week and they ran our batteries through the ringer on their inverters and never had any issues. But, we are also working with our engineering team on some firmware things to make the batteries happier for longer until some of these units with a longer startup process can get into a ready status. Lots of movement on this in the last few weeks.
Any hope of closed-loop BMS communication and UL9450?
 
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