Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[GVSolar]

My post from another thread:
The new Lifepower4 battery has a different BMS and Rs485 cable setup from the original Gyll batteries - and from the new EG4-LL models. Different software, too. Battery-to-battery communication daisy chain is a no-go between the old Gyll and Lifepower4.

This should have been pointed out in their marketing materials, but as of yesterday, the original PC software was still shown in the Lifepower4 spec sheet. This needs to be changed immediately.

I have asked SSolar to exchange my new Lifepower4 unit for the EG4-LL - in order to be compatible with my previously purchased Gyll batteries. We'll see how that works out - no response thus far, but it's only been a couple of days.

@SignatureSolarUS @Signature Solar @signaturesolarrichard

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Yeah, let me know how it goes. Could be something with my setup, but I've been running with lead acid for 5 or 6 years now without this issue. And if it can't "boot up" my golf cart, it's hard to imagine it would work on most low frequency inverters.

So far so good, powered up my MS-4448-PAE off one Lifepower4.

Here’s the story.

Had a friend come over today and help mount the inverter/load center To the wall. We then mounted one Lifepower4 in the rack and wired it to the load center DC input. We couldn’t wait until Monday to call Signature. We then turned on the battery and then turn on the 175amp breaker to the inverter. The battery immediately illuminated the fault light. Since I also bought the EG4 charger we hooked it up directly to the battery output posts and fired up the generator to the charger. We turned the the battery back on and waited about a minute. We then turned the 175amp load center breaker and BOOM! the inverter fired up and asked for the time. After inputting the time it would let me start the inverter with the power button on the display. It then started searching for loads. It couldn’t find any because we have not wired any of that yet. Turned the power off then the 175amp breaker then the battery.

Headed to the Home Depot in the morning for electrical supplies. Will update tomorrow night with full results off from one battery.

hopefully by this time tomorrow night my house will be running of its new batteries and inverter.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

So far so good, powered up my MS-4448-PAE off one Lifepower4.

Here’s the story.

So your Signature Solar LifePower4 battery has the same issue with your Magnum MS-4448-PAE inverter as reported by others. It will NOT start your inverter with out the help of an external power source.

 

[Hedges]

So your Signature Solar LifePower4 battery has the same issue with your Magnum MS-4448-PAE inverter as reported by others. It will NOT start your inverter with out the help of an external power source.

I think because he turned on battery first, then closed 175A breaker, inrush to charge caps could have been seen as a short.
Alternate sequence breaker first battery second gives the battery chance to precharge, if it has that feature.

Failing that, I would try my "Romex Resistor" to bypass the 175A breaker (through another breaker or fuse/switch), followed by closing 175A breaker.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Yes, i would try turning the 175 amp main breaker on, THEN turn the battery breaker on and report those results. That should engage the pre-charge circuit built into the battery. I expect the same results as others have reported, but it would be a good test.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

So your Signature Solar LifePower4 battery has the same issue with your Magnum MS-4448-PAE inverter as reported by others. It will NOT start your inverter with out the help of an external power source.

Correct.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Yes, i would try turning the 175 amp main breaker on, THEN turn the battery breaker on and report those results. That should engage the pre-charge circuit built into the battery. I expect the same results as others have reported, but it would be a good test.

Turned on the main breaker 175amp then the breaker on the battery. Once again started right up and asked me the time. I think I may have lucked out? Still only one battery hooked up SOC two green lights 50% 52.2v read out at the inverter display. DID NOT need to jumpstart with EG4 charger.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Turned on the main breaker 175amp then the breaker on the battery. Once again started right up and asked me the time. I think I may have lucked out? Still only one battery hooked up SOC two green lights 50% 52.2v read out at the inverter display. DID NOT need to jumpstart with EG4 charger.

Could be that the Magnum held its charge since it was just power on before? Caps didn't need charged... OR could be that the pre-charge in the EG4 battery is working when turned on in that order....

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Could be that the Magnum help its charge since it was just power on before? Caps didn't need charged... OR could be that the pre-charge in the EG4 battery is working when turned on in that order....

It has been sitting hours since you asked me to conduct that test. Also when I shut it down the first time is showed me the voltage as it turned off and they dropped from 52.2 down to 30 or 40 something then the display went black.

 

[Hedges]

Turned on the main breaker 175amp then the breaker on the battery. Once again started right up and asked me the time. I think I may have lucked out?

Maybe that precharge success is robust, or maybe on the hairy edge.
Testing it with two inverters in parallel would double the capacitance, prove margin for that parameter.
Turn-on time for inverter is another parameter you probably have no control over.

 

[merritt2828]

Turned on the main breaker 175amp then the breaker on the battery. Once again started right up and asked me the time. I think I may have lucked out? Still only one battery hooked up SOC two green lights 50% 52.2v read out at the inverter display. DID NOT need to jumpstart with EG4 charger.

Maybe this is the trick? Flip battery breaker(s) last, to activate the precharge circuitry? It would make sense, since the battery breaker has some kind of delay. I don't remember where I read that, been meaning to research the part number. I won't be able to test this till next weekend, but maybe someone with an XW could try this method as well.

My batteries were disconnected for less than an hour while I swapped batteries and the g4ll wouldn't start my inverter. I assume the capacitors discharge within 10 secs.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Yes I would think to utilize the built in battery pre-charge circuit, you would need the inverter connected to the battery BEFORE turning on the battery breaker.

That's been tried with a XW Pro 6848 and the EG4 LifePower4 failed to start it. My EG4 LL battery starts my XW PRO 6848 just fine by turning the battery breaker on with it connected.

However that's not how their manual says to do it. Signature solar sure needs to update their documentation, besides this being misleading or wrong, there are many discrepancies in voltages between advertised spec sheet and the manuals also:'

From the manual:

● Step 4. Electrical Commissioning
After all previous steps have been completed, turn ON each battery module (including their respective output
circuit breaker to ON), one at a time, pausing between each to allow the batteries to stabilize. Continue until
all battery modules are ON and terminal voltage is detected on the bus bar. If any battery module does not
start, or the front panel "ALM" (alarm) lights, or the output circuit breaker goes OFF, immediately turn OFF all
battery modules and disconnect the offending battery module from the rack bus bar and remove it from the
rack for further inspection. Once all connected battery modules are deemed functioning properly, then turn
ON or enable power sources and loads, one at a time, while monitoring the battery modules, sources, and
loads for any anomalies. If any battery module front panel "ALM" (alarm) lights, or any circuit breaker trips,
or fuses blow, or arcing, or smoke, immediately turn OFF all battery modules, sources, and loads and correct
the fault before proceeding.

 

[merritt2828]

You're right, the documentation is poor in critical areas. Trying to get a clear understanding of voltages is what brought me to this post.

 

[robby]

So has Signature Solar gotten back to you guys with a solution?

 

[Scott Martinez]

So has Signature Solar gotten back to you guys with a solution?

I never heard back by email. I have a split phase setup with two MPP Solar LV2424's and was able to get my system to start up with my old lead acid bank, temporarily for a few seconds, parallel the new batteries (2 24v EG4's), then switch out the old bank with a DC switch. I've been running for a few days normally. As long as the batteries don't go below the cutoff set in the LV2424, they will stay up as long as I have AC connected to the inverters. If I didn't have a spare 24 volts sitting around, I would be screwed. I hope they come up with a fix for this.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

The pre-charge issue with the EG4 LifePower4 battery seems to affect more inverters than originally thought. I've read of Schneider, Magnum, and now MPP inverters not starting with them. This is the 1st of heard of the 24 volt model, has been 48 volt up to this point.

Hopefully they are focused on finding a fix for everyone.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I believe but not sure all other then the EG4 Lifepower4 are compatible. I also believe that they were trying to make the EG4 Lifepower4 an affordable simple alternative for the masses. Probably never thought they wouldn’t power up certain inverters. Just like the 6 battery rack I just received. It has no top nor a door. They are trying to keep the price down but have a quality product. If they are reading this. Please stock doors and tops for the people that would pay extra for them like me as an upgrade option.

We have been in communication with a few manufacturers to see if we can make this a possibility.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

My post from another thread:
The new Lifepower4 battery has a different BMS and Rs485 cable setup from the original Gyll batteries - and from the new EG4-LL models. Different software, too. Battery-to-battery communication daisy chain is a no-go between the old Gyll and Lifepower4.

This should have been pointed out in their marketing materials, but as of yesterday, the original PC software was still shown in the Lifepower4 spec sheet. This needs to be changed immediately.

I have asked SSolar to exchange my new Lifepower4 unit for the EG4-LL - in order to be compatible with my previously purchased Gyll batteries. We'll see how that works out - no response thus far, but it's only been a couple of days.

@SignatureSolarUS @Signature Solar @signaturesolarrichard

Sorry about the delay, I've been out of the office and just returned. PM me your info and I'll see what I can find out.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

The pre-charge issue with the EG4 LifePower4 battery seems to affect more inverters than originally thought. I've read of Schneider, Magnum, and now MPP inverters not starting with them. This is the 1st of heard of the 24 volt model, has been 48 volt up to this point.

Hopefully they are focused on finding a fix for everyone.

We are researching this issue very heavily to make sure our batteries work with as many inverters as possible. I can assure you we want our batteries to be the best and work for everyone!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

My thoughts on this:

1. Signature Solar stated the EG4 LL "LCD model" and CURRENT EG4 LifePower4 "Non-LCD Model" do NOT share the same BMS, but share the same battery pack.

2. It's REALLY terrible if Signature Solar indeed changed the BMS in the new stock of EG4 "LifePower4" models to one that is incompatible with their other rack batteries. Compatibility of BMS communications on THEIR batteries should be published and disclosed on the website for the products. PERIOD!!!! People will be buying more of these to add to their systems, unknowing they will not talk to the batteries they already bought from them. If this is true, shame on them!

3. Signature Solar REALLY needs to work on their customer relations and communications. I know they are crazy busy right now and covid is not helping anything, but if they continue down this path that problem will fix itself as people start avoiding doing business with them. Reputation AND Support means a lot to the DIY customers! They should have one or more people dedicated to customer communications.

4. Finally Signature Solar has a chance to shine here, they need to fix the startup issue the EG4 "LifePower4" batteries have with some inverters. This needs done ASAP! Whatever it takes, BMS software update, New batteries, whatever it takes!!!

5. I shouldn't have had to spend the extra $$ to upgrade to the EG4 LL battery just to avoid the issue with the LifePower4 models. I chose to out of frustration, because I really needed the batteries and had been waiting so long.

Couldn't agree more. We have been completely slammed and had several people out with illnesses (myself included) but I'm back at the office today. We are in communications with our manufacturers and engineering teams to make sure we can help DIYers as much as possible and figure out what is going on and provide a solution. We have spent a significant amount of time and funds into purchasing the mentioned models in this thread and are awaiting their arrival for further testing. We are working to get a solution out ASAP for this. We know our reputation and support are why people love doing business with us, and plan to maintain that even in light of issues like this.