Seeking Advice: Grid-separated EG4 12000XP using an interior load center

[No-one-&-Not-Important]

I'm just seeing and catching up on this thread. @No-one-&-Not-Important sounds like we have a very near same setup....2x 12000xps, 4x eg4 wallmounts, a pallet of hyperion 400w bifacials... Nice! (I'm loving the heck out of my system and it's overkill for me, but should last a very long time....and I've been grid free for over 50 days now. I would suggest (cause i'm a nerdy engineer too) getting a Sense power monitor or similar as it was eyeopening to me, my loads, daily usage, etc.....and it will likely help you to find places to become more energy efficient.

Nerdy Engineer... Brothers from different mothers! Sense Power Monitor; which one do you have? Love the carport!

I saw @green-river suggest a heat pump dryer which would be more efficient, but take a good bit longer. Heater in my electric dryer is like a 5kw load when its on, so no issues on my end. Now, I do love my heat pump water heater and I have it scheduled to be on only during solar hours...so free hot water (basically).

I am skeptical about the heat pump dryer (Reddit posts everywhere how it's fine at first and then "craps" out over time, with all kinds of issues (smell, condensation accumulating on the exchange coils, etc...); even to the point where LG basically pulled out on some of their models; Samsung recently did the same; Miele is not only too small but even more expensive; why would you even get one?!?). BUT I'm DEFINITELY in for the heat pump water heater.

You can use AC just to charge batteries (based on SOC or voltage for closed vs open loop comms) while still inverting (tested this); and inverter should switch to grid bypass/charge if batteries get low enough (never tested this). See https://diysolarforum.com/threads/12000xp-low-soc-settings-help.97272/#post-1323757

I wired each inverter to handle 100A from grid and to deliver 100A output since it's supposed to be able to bypass 100A from grid through it to loads. Manuals and all were a bit confusing on this...

Are you saying that the inverter can deliver 100A as AC Output? How did you manage this? I could not find this. Which is why I am getting two inverters. Each can only AC output 50A. Or did I misunderstand your comment?

Watch your torque specs in the 12000xp manual; I've email EG4 folks about this with no response that they need to look at these and correct them before someone breaks something. The CHNT breakers call for 31in-lbs. Also, verify the torque on the inverter connections where you can (battery terminals, the ground and neutral bar); I found the inverter neutral barely snug on one of my units and neither torqued anywhere near what Luxpower or EG4 called for in their manuals. The Luxpower SNA 12k is our equivelent, btw; and Eddie/Edwin on here is the US Lux rep too.

Loud & clear!


Why did you bring MC4 connectors down your conduit? Easier to fish or you might expand your array later, or just wanted to be done quickly & will strip later, etc...? BTW, that's one "fat" conduit down your pole! I'd never pass inspection with a non-metal exterior conduit, incl. fill rate, in San Cautious-e, Bureacratifornia... I mean San Jose, California.

Thanks a bunch @killercarver. Good luck finishing the built and look forward to the cleanup! And BTW, "forever remodels" are real...

 

[tastelikechicken]

Hi everyone,

I just put together a single 12000xp and 2 indoor powerpro batteries for peak shaving purposes. My plan was always to use grid to charge the batteries during super off peak times, after using the the inverter for a few days now its been pretty awesome. I think i've severely under estimated my missions critical load. I have a 2 ton heat pump (ACiQ-24-HPB), 2 computers, some networking equipment, downstairs and upstairs lights in the house on a separate loads panel wired to load on the inverter. My battery bank lasted 5 hours with this crazy cold weather in Georgia. But other than that I'm super happy with the system.

@No-one-&-Not-Important I can confirm that it will switch to grid immediately once the battery has depleted to a certain set SOC, mine is set to 15 percent.

I have to replace our second HVAC unit upstairs before the summer (Old unit thats had all its refrigerant leaked out) I'm planning on another ACiQ-24-HPB unit as they're pretty awesome and affordable. My question is the load imbalance. each ACiQ-24-HPB runs at 20A MCA, among other loads adding another HVAC to the load will get me to trip one of the 6000watt max loads per line?
So I would need another inverter and more batteries? I think i generally answered my own question, there really isn't a way to combine L1 and L2 to load balance? I'm not sure panels would help since I live in a pretty shaded house, we have a southern facing roof but it only gets a few hours of direct sunlight before shading occurs from the 120 foot pines.

 

[killercarver]

@green-river @No-one-&-Not-Important
Thanks yall! Carport indeed uses old telephone poles sunk and concreted in; double 2x10 headers, and then a combination of 2x6 "rafters" with unistrut (couldn't get it long enough by itself). I've got a manlift which made the build possible; and since we get everything from snow, hurricanes, and tornadoes around here, I did basic calcs with a nice factor or safety for the loading. If the array disappears, the house will be gone too O I made a decision to maintain the 1 1/2" spacing between panels horizontally like panel mounts (on top and bottom one each panel forces) between panel columns, and haven't found a good way to seal the gap as I'd like to keep the area under the array dry (park things under). I've got some thick clear acrylic tape to try; white RV tape has worked but isn't wide enough without covering the panel mounts and part of the silicon, and foam crack fillers (liked used in concrete work) did ok until it snowed... ~shrug~

Nerdy Engineers FTW!!!

I got the Sense Solar/Sense Flex, but honestly the plain ol sense monitor would work; the only difference is the Solar/Flex comes with a second set of current clamps. Being off-grid (ish), the solar/2nd set of current clamps won't work because I've never using anything from the utility (so far). For some reason, Sense stopped detecting new appliances; I've reset it and in the last month its "found" only my microwave, so not sure what's going on. I can still see my other loads, most of the surges when things turn on, etc. I've thought about trying out the Emporia monitor...hmm.

Looked at heat pump dryers, and combo washer/dryers and am not impressed at all; reviews are scary! It's pretty clear that designers are not filtering are going to the coil well enough for any manf and its causing big problems. I've got a Rheem hybrid water heater that I keep in heat pump mode year round, and basically only allow it to come on from 10am - 4pm; plenty of hot water for lil ol me. If I need more, it'll sip power (like 400-500 watts) with a COP of 2 or more. Not too shabby.

Looks like you understood my comment....Each 12000XP is supposed to be able to output 50A @240VAC continously; but, will "bypass" the utility through at 100A when in that mode. I know the bypass works (verified and then haven't used it since), and this should correspond to the switchgear in the inverter itself. Because of this bypass capability, I wired inverter supply and its supply to combiner panel to be 100A per inverter... I will add too (thanks to Sense) that with one of these inverters, I was seeing a voltage dip when my 1.5hp well pump was turning on down to ~110VAC; with the two inverters, the lowest dip has been 115 so 2x has made a very nice difference for surges. I don't even notice when my 3 ton heat pump turns on...

MC4's down to my built disconnect on the array? I wanted weather sealed exterior connection in case I wanted to reconfigure strings, had a problem, needed to replace something, etc.; all your same reasons too. And yeah, fat conduit so I could pull up MC4's if i needed too; I used the old pole identifer tags to hold it on for nastalgia... Good ol Cali. I'm working a little combiner/seperator board in spare time that may end up going below this box so that I can tie or disconnect strings based on whats going on outside (or at night) to try to milk more power; though the array really is plenty for my setup even with multiple cloudy days. My worst collection day was when it snowed the whole day and I collected 1.6KWh... The next day made up for it and the array cleaned itself off too, which was very nice.

 

[killercarver]

@tastelikechicken I've been very happy with my Senville unit on an outdoor storage trailer (yes, heated and cooled insulated trailer I put togehter) so much so that I'm dropping mini-splits into the house vs central air; not sure if you're mini-split or using an air handler, but will assume air handler. 2-ton/24000btu should be coming in a 240VAC flavor, thus evenly spread between legs (no imbalance worry), and it should no be using 20A contiously even with an indoor air handler and outdoor unit; likely less than half of that around 7 or 8A. Heat strips? Now they'll be power hungry... You said 2x indoor powerpro (EG4, ~14kwh? capacity) batteries lasted 5 hours? So you were burning ( 2x14kwh * 0.85 discharge / 5hours) = ~4.75kw per hour...almost 5000watts continously for 5 hours?

 

[tastelikechicken]

@tastelikechicken I've been very happy with my Senville unit on an outdoor storage trailer (yes, heated and cooled insulated trailer I put togehter) so much so that I'm dropping mini-splits into the house vs central air; not sure if you're mini-split or using an air handler, but will assume air handler. 2-ton/24000btu should be coming in a 240VAC flavor, thus evenly spread between legs (no imbalance worry), and it should no be using 20A contiously even with an indoor air handler and outdoor unit; likely less than half of that around 7 or 8A. Heat strips? Now they'll be power hungry... You said 2x indoor powerpro (EG4, ~14kwh? capacity) batteries lasted 5 hours? So you were burning ( 2x14kwh * 0.85 discharge / 5hours) = ~4.75kw per hour...almost 5000watts continously for 5 hours?

Yeah it was really cold and the compressor was on quite a bit, house is pretty air leaky built in the 70s. Wife was also using her 1500w electric heater. Yeah I was burning around 5-6000w. On more mild days the compressor doesn't use the full 20 amps. I still want more batteries.

 

[killercarver]

Mo batteries, mo better (and much longer life)

 

[NuDiyr2Eg4]

Hello Everyone,

So... my first solar install, I am installing an EG4 12000XP, and I have a question about the Bonding. So I am aware, that it has an "electronic" N-PE "Bond", that I can "Enable", just by selecting it (from within the menu), but, as important as this is (for safety), I would feel a great deal more comfortable with a "solid" hard wired connection.
While talking to a "Tech", they said I could do that " if I had the proper tools and equipment" (I think they referring to a thing called a "screwdriver" ( I am so blessed, to be one of the few, people that has one).
(Okay stop laughing) I'm sensitive.
Seriously, so is there any reason why, I cannot run a 6 gauge solid copper wire, from the Neutral bar (marked N) and the Ground bar (marked PE...I think this is a tech abbreviation for "Planet Earth" or something), within the 12000XP? After all they are less than an inch from another, I think I have enough "equipment (3" of wire) to do that".
And of course make sure the electronic N-PE "Bond" remains "disabled"

*Note* I did forget to mention (the first time I posted this), that this system is being built TOTALLY separate, from the my existing grid system. I have already installed a new LC (which will actually be the "sub panel", in this instance.

Thanks

 

[TM48]

You should have a bond already in either your meter panel or main load center. You only want one.

 

[NuDiyr2Eg4]

Yes, you are correct, but I am building my solar system TOTALLY separate, with a new LC
(I did forget to mention that), so at this time the only Bond available is the N-PE within the 12000XP (which I'm not really all that keen on).
Thanks