Setting Up a Lithium Battery (Lithium Werks Valence) for DC & AC Power

[reg]

A couple of personal lessons...

I'm driving out to West Marine in Port Washington today to get the battery cables made. I should have gotten on the phone to local suppliers in the first place. Instead, I spent a good amount of time trying, unsuccessfully, to organise battery cables over the internet, and ultimately from a supplier on the other side of the continent.

Not only that, but West Marine's own website turned out to be misleading. I learned that by picking up my phone and calling its nearest brick and mortar store - where I spoke with an actual human being who not only solved my problem, but comes from the same mold as the semi-retired guys and ladies who work at L.L. Bean's original store in Freeport, Maine and Lee Valley Tools's flagship store in Ottawa, Canada. Knowledgeable, a bit of a character, solved my problem.

This experience has also reinforced a lesson that I learned a few years ago. For electrical components, I start with manufacturers' sites and specialist suppliers like McMaster-Carr, Mouser Electronics and Newark. For all its strengths, Amazon is a generalist retailer. Its selection, when it comes to electrical components, is limited. Had I not spent some time on Littelfuse's site, I would never have known that its in-line MIDI fuse holder existed. Instead of spending $9 at Newark, I could well have wound up spending $53 on a Blue Sea holder and fuses on Amazon - an offering that is not only ridiculously priced, but is overbuilt to the point of defeating Littelfuse's reasons for creating the MIDI format. On some of the components that I wanted, if I could even find them on Amazon, delivery was from the other side of the Pacific Ocean and weeks away.

The only downside to visiting Port Washington today is that I live in the gridlock capital of the world. The 20mi/32km drive will take an hour, minimum. But I've got a lunch of Blue Point oysters (hey, it's still an "R" month) and Long Island clams to look forward to.

One tip. Don't start a call to West Marine the way that I did. I told the person who answered the phone that I wanted to speak with someone about Ancor cable. This led to an unanticipated, but entirely sensible question: "What kind of anchor do you need a cable for?"

 

[reg]

With the battery cables sorted out, the post above is likely my last substantive contribution to this thread. Most people purchase an inverter that has an AC outlet built in, so there isn’t much point in talking about connecting one to the SureSine.

It isn't what I anticipated, but three days after post #95 the battery continues to read 13.36 volts.

This is a final list of tools that I've used/expect to use, updated from post #51. I've added some comments about tool makers as well as links to sources:

As Needed
Safety Glasses

Electrical Testing
Multimeter Hioki DT4252
AC/DC Clamp Meter Hioki CM4371
I also have a pocket-sized Hioki DT4221 multimeter that I carry on my motorcycle, which is what I used to take the battery voltage readings reported in this thread.

Hioki multimeters, which are made in Japan, are mostly used in industrial settings and are not well-known to consumers. The company has an office in Plano, Texas. I think that Hioki multimeters are as good as Fluke's, but better priced. I first came across them on Test Equipment Depot's website. You can also buy direct from Hioki U.S.A. It wasn't the case when I bought mine, but Test Equipment and a number of other vendors now sell Hioki multimeters on Amazon U.S.

Battery Terminals (M6 Hex Screws)
Wrench Knipex 10mm Insulated Box Wrench (98 01 10)

Amazon itself sells Knipex and Wiha tools, which is not the case with other German tool manufacturers. I mostly use Hazet wrenches, but I was able to get this wrench with next day delivery. Knipex has a U.S. office in Chicago, and Wiha has a subsidiary in Minnesota, which probably explains why their U.S. distribution is more efficient than that of other German tool makers.

Littelfuse MIDI In-line Fuse Holder (M5 Nylock Nuts)
Wrench Tekton 8mm Combination Wrench (18277)

I purchased most of my metric wrenches (Hazet) while living in Europe. U.S. vendors of brands like Hazet charge a significant premium. Tekton is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I think that its wrenches, which are made in Taiwan, are excellent value for money. At $8, this wrench costs half of what U.S. vendors of German 8mm combination wrenches want. Available direct from Tekton (link above) or from Amazon.

Inverter
Phillips #2 Screwdriver (to remove the inverter's cover)
Slotted Screwdriver with ~5.5mm blade (DC & Earth Ground Set Screw Terminals)
Slotted Screwdriver with ~3.5mm blade (AC Screw Terminals)

I use screwdrivers made by PB Swiss and Wiha. I also have some Vessel screwdrivers for JIS (Japanese Industry Standard) screws, which are used, for example, on some motorcycles. PB Swiss screwdrivers are widely available in Europe at reasonable prices. U.S. distribution is limited, and pricing is relatively high. In the U.S., they are available from Count On Tools in Gainesville, Georgia and the Tool Lady in Port Orchard, Washington. Wiha's U.S. subsidiary sells via Amazon and direct from its office in Monticello, Minnesota. JIS screwdrivers are available from Amazon and Vessel Tools in Fair Lawn, New Jersey. Note that Count On Tools is the actual vendor of PB Swiss screwdrivers on Amazon U.S., where its pricing is ridiculous.

Battery Cable to the Inverter
To Crimp the Battery (M6) & Fuse Holder (M5) Ring Terminals: Crimping machine at my local West Marine store.
To Affix the Cables to the Inverter's Set Screw Terminals: Tools listed below for AC wiring plus Knipex Crimping Pliers for Wire Ferrules (97 71 180).

Wiring from the Inverter to the AC Outlet
Wire Cutter Knipex Diagonal Cutter for Electro-Mechanics (76 01 125)
Insulation Stripper Knipex Insulation Stripper with Opening Spring (11 02 160)
Pliers Knipex Electronics Pliers (32 52 145)

Years ago, I purchased a Knipex adjustable wrench, what it calls a Pliers Wrench, and became an instant fan of its tools. As an aside... YouTube reviews of Knipex tools frequently result in debates over the name Knipex. Is the "K" pronounced or silent? There's nothing to debate. In German, it's pronounced. Call Knipex in Chicago after hours and listen to the answering machine message. Indeed, at one time the "K" would have been pronounced in English, too. Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales provides an example. Linguists believe that the "K" in Knyght (the Middle English spelling of Knight) in the following sentence was pronounced: "A KNYGHT ther was and that a worthy man". Same for the English word "Knife"

 

[Ampster]

........ the battery continues to read 13.36 volts.

It settled right where expected. That would be 3.35 volts per cell.

 

[reg]

It settled right where expected. That would be 3.35 volts per cell.

A reading of 13.36 volts is 3.34 volts per cell.

 

[Ampster]

A reading of 13.36 volts is 3.34 volts per cell.

I would be happy with 3.34841678 volts.

 

[reg]

I would be happy with 3.34841678 volts.

There's no rounding involved. As a matter of plain arithmetic, 13.36 divided by 4 yields exactly 3.34

 

[MrNatural22]

Happy Wednesday. ?

 

[reg]

There's a link error in post #102. Here's the correct link for Gainesville, Georgia vendor of PB Swiss screwdrivers, Count On Tools.

A note for people who take photographs or make videos about a very useful PB Swiss screwdriver... FilmTools, a Los Angeles vendor of professional video cameras and equipment, sells a stubby #7 screwdriver made by PB Swiss for the #7 screws that are standard on quick release plates and tripod heads. Like most people, I used to use whatever was handy - often a coin - to tie down my camera and lens. Not the most reassuring, secure method for thousands of dollars worth of gear. This compact screwdriver is a terrific solution.

FilmTools sells this screwdriver for $30. Count On Tools wants $24. PB Swiss vendor Tool Lady sells it for $17.64 here.

 

[reg]

Here's a photo of the battery with the cables set up. I could not be happier with the inline fuse holder. It's going to fit in perfectly with how I intend to use the battery. The distance from the battery terminal may seem a bit long, but it suits my setup.

The people at the West Marine store were great. Their crimper is manual, bolted to a work table. Don't know who makes it, but it's easy to use and effective. Long handle, plenty of leverage, almost effortless.

I was a bit concerned about the TE Connectivity ring terminals. TE offers a couple of sizes for 6 gauge cable, and I opted for 15mm², the smallest. They worked perfectly with the Ancor cable.

A note about the fuse holder... I had to use the box end of my 8mm combination wrench on the Nylock nuts. That's my preference anyway, just want to note that the raised centre of the fuse physically got in the way when I tried the open end of the wrench. The two slots on the bottom of the fuse holder (zoom in a bit on the photo) are for cable ties if you want to tie down the holder.

Judging from the photo, I still have some Scotch tape residue to remove from the battery

Cable: Ancor Marine Grade (4'/1.2m, tinned copper, 6 American Wire Gauge) Ancor Wire & Cable Technical Data
Battery terminal hex screws: M6 (1/4"), coarse thread, 16mm/0.63" long (brass). Plain washers: M6 (copper)
Fuse holder and fuse: Littelfuse MIDI inline, 100A fuse (specs in post #54)
Battery ring terminals: M6 (1/4"), TE Connectivity, Solistrand series (specs in post #63)
Fuse holder ring terminals: M5 (1/5"), TE Connectivity, Solistrand series (specs in post #63)

 

[reg]

Glad I purchased an insulated wrench. The first post in a new thread today says:

"Read a hundred times in every thread to be very careful with a wrench. But it was late at night and in my exhaustion forgot about it . While tightening a bolt on one of the cells the wrench accidently touched + and - for half a second."

See post #88 for ReBel Batteries's entertaining video demonstrating short circuits. I'd probably find it less entertaining if I managed to do it by accident.

 

[reg]

This will be the last post on voltage readings as I start using the battery in Active Mode instead of Park Mode. Post #74 explains the battery's Modes and contains info about draw by its built-in battery management system and light-emitting diode. Except for the first, all readings have been made at about 8:00 a.m. Readings in brackets are my multimeter's reading divided by four to get "per cell" voltage.

In the first 11 days, the battery dropped from 14.05V (right after charging) to 13.37/13.36V. The battery has read 13.36V (3.34 per cell) every day for the last 10 days.

These are voltage numbers, I assume averages, that a participant in this thread provided in post #29:

Here are some voltage references that I have found helpful for LFP cells. I am listing the cell voltage as well as the equivalent 4S for reference.

Maximum charge voltage 3.65 14.6
Resting voltage after charge 3.30 13.2

Week One
Monday afternoon, post-charge: 14.05 (3.51)
Tuesday: 13.64 (3.41)
Wednesday: 13.49 (3.37)
Thursday: 13.45 (3.36)
Friday: 13.41 (3.35)
Saturday: 13.39 (3.35)
Sunday: 13.38 (3.35)

Week Two
Monday: 13.37 (3.34)
Tuesday: 13.37 (3.34)
Wednesday: 13.37 (3.34)
Thursday: wavering between 13.37 and 13.36 (3.34)
Friday: 13.36 (3.34)
Saturday: 13.36 (3.34)
Sunday: 13.36 (3.34)

Week Three
Monday through Sunday: 13.36 (3.34)

 

[reg]

Notwithstanding what I said in post #102, I've decided to talk about setting up the battery with the SureSine inverter. I'm doing it in a non-standard way that may be of interest to others.

My objective is to have a power supply that, like a Jackery, is highly portable. I intend to use it both outdoors and indoors, and I want to keep it light and lean. That's why I chose to use an in-line fuse holder rather than a bolt down holder. The remaining question was what, if anything, to do about grounding.

I started a separate thread on this question titled "Grounding Basics" Not Basic Enough for Me . I noted that a Jackery doesn't require grounding, indeed that Jackery manuals don't even mention grounding, and asked for views on my intended setup. There are a variety of opinions in the thread over two pages of posts.

This morning, I raised the question directly with Morningstar, the manufacturer of the SureSine. Our exchange is discussed in this post in the thread and in the two that follow it.

The result is that I'll be using the battery and inverter as a "floating system" without reference to earth ground, and that I'll be making a change from the manual's AC wiring diagram. I'll ensure that 120V AC equipment is in good working order, with no frayed electrical cords, etc. When possible, I'll also use what are known as double insulated appliances that do not require grounding. These have plugs with 2 prongs instead of 3. Double insulated devices are in widespread use.

I would not be surprised if Jackery power supplies are also floating systems, and that the above paragraph also represents good practice with them.

I'd like to stress that I'm acting on advice from the manufacturer of my specific inverter. If I were using a different inverter, I'd get advice from its manufacturer.

 

[reg]

I'm now using the battery to power DC devices, so the inverter wiring isn't holding me up too much.

The change that I'll be making to the SureSine AC wiring diagram below is that I'll omit the earth ground green wire referred to in Step 4.

Morningstar has suggested that I stick with the recommendation to use a GFCI (Ground-fault Circuit Interrupter) AC receptacle. A fault in the system will still trip the GFCI device if an unbalanced load is detected.

I'm now scouting around for an outdoor-friendly GFCI receptacle.

 

[Ampster]

Outdoor GFCI receptacles are only different from indoor GFCI receptacles by the covers over the slots. They are more expensive but are wired the same. They both use three wires. I do not know if they test for a ground wire, so maybe they will work with only a hot and neutal wire. Let us know what you find out.

I am curious how a GFCI receotacle works without a bonding wire between Neutral and Ground on the inverter?

 

[reg]

Outdoor GFCI receptacles are only different from indoor GFCI receptacles by the covers over the slots. They are more expensive but are wired the same. They both use three wires. I do not know if they test for a ground wire, so maybe they will work with only a hot and neutal wire. Let us know what you find out.

I am curious how a GFCI receotacle works without a bonding wire between Neutral and Ground on the inverter?

What I said is that I'm on the lookout for an outdoor-friendly GFCI receptacle. That understates things a bit. I've looked at dozens of them. I'm not talking about the wiring, which is obviously the same. I'm talking about ruggedness and protection and two sockets vs one, where there are indeed differences. The standard receptacles for indoor and outdoor residential use are not all that's available.

I questioned whether there is any point to a GFCI receptacle given that the power supply will not be grounded, and indeed I wondered whether one will function properly. Morningstar has suggested that I stick with GFCI. Basically, it's making the point that GFCI receptacles are not just about grounding, which if I recall is one of the reasons why a different term is used in the U.K. I'm likely to try GFCI, but there are non-GFCI receptacles that are very "outdoor-friendly" that I would otherwise use. Right now, I'm looking for a happy medium.

I may save myself some time if I just go to a couple of big box hardware/renovation stores and have a look.

 

[Ampster]

I questioned whether there is any point to a GFCI receptacle given that the power supply will not be grounded,

Good question. My understanding is that it would not do anything to protect you. If you only hook up the Hot and Neutral it would not be possible to have a Ground Fault since there is no ground wire. A brief Google search confirmed that a ground fault is defined as an imbalance between Hot and Neutral. That could only occur if some of the current is divided between the neutral wire and the ground wire. No current is supposed to flow on the Ground, hence the name Ground Fault.

 

[reg]

Good question. My understanding is that it would not do anything to protect you. If you only hook up the Hot and Neutral it would not be possible to have a Ground Fault since there is no ground wire. A brief Google search confirmed that a ground fault is defined as an imbalance between Hot and Neutral. That could only occur if some of the current is divided between the neutral wire and the ground wire. No current is supposed to flow on the Ground, hence the name Ground Fault.

Let's get something straight. I am following the advice of the technical experts at the company that made the inverter, which has been in production for 14 years. I am not interested in debating that advice with a self-described "Renewable Energy Hobbyist" whose mission throughout this thread has been to debate anything and everything.

I would suggest that people who are interested in the AC wiring read post #113 and the whole of the second paragraph in post #115.

 

[MrNatural22]

WOW. ?

 

[Ampster]

Debate? I said it was a good question.

My mission has been to provide useful information for other readers. Nothing I said contradicted the technical experts at Morningstar. The reality is there is no serious shock hazard with a 300 Watt inverter in a portable set up like you have described. There is no risk of Ground Fault if there is no ground wire or earth ground. They clearly say the two outputs are isolated from ground, I will let the readers draw their own conclusion about the value of a GFCI in an installation where there is no earth ground. I think you missed the point that I agreed with your question about. "any point to a GFCI receptacle given that the power supply will not be grounded." In that situation it is a waste of money.

Of interest to other readers, If one were to install an earth ground then the technical experts and I would agree that a GFCI would be highly recommended. If installed in certain locations in a residence a GFCI receptacle would be required by code. I am a self proclaimed Renewable Energy Hobbyist and my modesty in choosing a title has not been an issue in the past. I have worked for a General Contractor and try to be familiar with building codes in general, since my retirement. I have successfully managed construction projects over the past 40 years totaling several hundred million dollars in value. It all depends on where you are standing.

 

[reg]

I will let the readers draw their own conclusion about the value of a GFCI in an installation where there is no earth ground. ... If one were to install an earth ground then the technical experts and I would agree that a GFCI would be highly recommended.

Luckily for me, on the first question I have the opinion of the highly-regarded designer and manufacturer of the very inverter that we're talking about. So do the readers of this thread, because I've posted it.

I'm sure that Morningstar's technical staff would be chuffed to learn that you agree with at least part of their advice on GFCIs, advice that they've been giving on this inverter since 2006.