Setting Up a Lithium Battery (Lithium Werks Valence) for DC & AC Power

[reg]

I would not be surprised if Jackery power supplies are also floating systems...

I think that it's helpful to keep this thread focused on the nuts and bolts of putting this portable power supply together. That's why I made "Grounding Basics" Not Basic Enough for Me a separate thread. If anyone wants to get into a detailed discussion about portable power supplies and grounding, that thread is a great place to do it. Here, I just want to draw attention to a new post in the thread that I think is worth mentioning.

The post notes that Pecron is releasing a new 1500Wh portable power supply that is clearly floating system. Pecron's promotional material includes a link to the first video below. The video says that the AC outlets are not grounded, but can be if the power supply is connected to a grounding rod. The power supply has a port specifically for this purpose.

Pecron's other portable power supplies don't have this feature. Nor do Jackery power supplies. I've read the user manuals for two of Pecron's current products and all of Jackery's, including the manuals for the new Jackery Explorer 1500 and Explorer 2000. The user manuals don't even mention grounding.

In the absence of information from the makers of portable power supplies, it's impossible to say anything definitive about these power supplies and grounding. However, none of the participants in the above thread have identified a mechanism that explains how, if at all, current portable power supplies address grounding. One participant has flagged inclusion of an isolation transformer as a possibility. In the thread, both he and I have noted that such transformers are neither small nor light. It isn't obvious how the inclusion of an isolation transformer is consistent with the size and weight of Jackery power supplies, especially the smaller ones.

It will be interesting to see what Pecron says in the new power supply's user manual, which doesn't appear to have been released yet, about the grounding port. In any event, I think that it is unlikely, as a practical matter, that most owners of the new Pecron will use it only with a grounding rod or other grounding mechanism. In the second video below, the presenter muses about grounding the supply with a 6' (2m) copper rod. Right.

@Will Prowse might find that the subject of portable power supplies and grounding is a good candidate for one of his videos.

This is the video that Pecron links in its promotional material. The video talks about grounding at 02:44:

The YouTube channel HoboTech reviews portable power supplies regularly. At 02:55 of this video, the presenter says that the new Pecron is the first portable power supply that he's seen with a grounding port:

 

[reg]

I've decided to stick with West Marine and Ancor for the wiring from the SureSine inverter to the AC outlet. Home Depot, at least where I live, doesn't sell duplex cable by the foot. I couldn't find information on the one brand that Lowe's offers. On price, West Marine was cheaper than ordering marine grade cable via Amazon.

I've ordered 10' (3m) of Ancor 12AWG/3mm² duplex cable. The cable is shown in the first screen capture. Ten feet is quite a bit more than I need for the inverter - I have other uses for it. I ordered Ancor's Safety cable rather than its Regular cable. Having a marine background, I have some sympathy for the distinction that Ancor draws (see the second screen capture), and the price is the same.

The full specifications for this and other Ancor wire and cable are in the .PDF Ancor Wire & Cable Technical Data. The second and third screen captures are from this document.

The choice of 12AWG/3mm² is based on the SureSine AC wiring instructions.

Now all I have to do is find an AC outlet that I like

If anyone is wondering why I ordered duplex rather than triplex cable, please see post #112 and following.



Ancor Safety Duplex Cable



Ancor Safety vs Regular Cable




Ancor Technical Specs (I've outlined the 12AWG/3mm² data in red)

 

[reg]

I'll be using this battery in ways that will require soldering. For example, I'll need cables that run from the battery terminals to this XLR connector, which Neutrik makes for outdoor use.

My searches on the internet suggest that the kinds of cables that I need are one or more of the following: unavailable off-the-shelf, expensive, not the length I want or of doubtful quality. The question is whether I have the cables custom made by a local audio company that I have a high regard for, and that makes cables for me a few times a year, or make them myself. I'm considering the latter, which would mean that I'd want to replace my ageing soldering iron.

One option is a 65W soldering station made by the Japanese company Hakko. The model, FX-888D, is shown in the screen capture below. Street price is US$105. Weller Tools, based in Germany, makes a competing station, the WE1010, that is newer to the market and in the same price category. I don't want to get involved in the debate around the WE1010, but I've discounted it as an option. Those who are interested in the issue can watch YouTube reviews by Dave Jones (EEV Blog) and others.

The other option that I'm considering is one of the portable, compact soldering irons made by Miniware, a company based in mainland China. Miniware's two soldering irons - the 65W TS100 and the 30W TS80P - boast recent heating technology that is available in soldering irons that are significantly more expensive than Hakko's FX-888D. These portable irons can also be powered both from AC mains and a battery.

YouTube reviews of the TS100 and TS80P are uniformly favourable. However, most of the reviews focus on using these irons with circuit boards, which is not my use case. The review below focuses on using them the way that I would, to solder cable to connectors. It's clear from the demonstrations in the video that the 65W TS100 would meet my needs (as cool as it is, I'm doubtful about the 30W TS80P):

Pricing of these Chinese irons is complicated. Vendor NovelLife sells a TS100 package for $74 ($56 if one is prepared to wait 18-45 days for delivery from China). It sells the TS80P, released in 2020 as version two of the TS80, for $103 ($85 with 18-45 delivery). These irons are also available on Amazon U.S. with fast shipping. However, I would want soldering tips other than the ones that Amazon vendors include with these irons. For the TS100, this means that it would make more sense to order from NovaLife, which offers a choice of TS100 tips. For the TS80P, it looks like it means $20 for an additional tip regardless of who I order from.

Another consideration... it looks like Miniware's 2020 release of the TS80 V. 2 may be followed, in the next few months, by V. 2 of the TS100.


Hakko FX-888D

 

[reg]

Further to post #122 (two above), this is what West Marine charged for the AC cable:

Ancor Safety Duplex Cable, 12AWG/3mm² (10'/3m): $13.90 ex sales tax, or $1.39 per foot/$4.60 per metre
Shipping: $9.95
Total: $23.85

Note that most of the 10' of cable will be used for other purposes. It makes more sense for me to pay $10 in shipping than to drive out to one of the West Marine stores on Long Island. West says 5-10 days for delivery; not ideal, but I'm currently using the battery for DC power anyway.

Ancor cable isn't cheap, even by the reel. However, I'm a happy user of it in other contexts, marine grade cable makes sense in my geographic area and I like Ancor cable's flexibility (see the photo in post #109). Also, I intend to use this power supply outdoors a lot, and I'm inclined to believe Ancor's claim that it pays a good deal of attention to the abrasion resistance of its insulation.

I might add that I considered Ancor's shielded duplex cable because of some of the gear that I intend to use with this power supply. Like the subject of grounding, this is a rabbit hole discussion that I don't want to get into in a nuts and bolts thread. Suffice to say that I decided, in part because my inverter won't be grounded, that using shielded cable is unlikely to have a significant beneficial effect. If I run into an "electrical noise" problem down the road, I'll revisit this question.

 

[reg]

I've narrowed the soldering iron options in post #123 (two posts above) to Hakko's FX-888D and Miniware's TS100. These are both 65W irons. I've decided that Miniware's TS80, at 30W, doesn't offer enough power.

My main reservation about the TS100 is that there are only a small number of tips available for it, and I'm only interested in two of them. The TS-D24 tip (chisel shape, 2.4mm wide) is definitely useable. The TS-BC2 (bevel shape) might be, if it isn't largely duplicative. The gentleman who made the video in post #123 used the TS-D24 tip with 10AWG wire. I'm pretty sure that the solder wire in the video is Kester 44 (specifically 2460400053), which has a diameter of 0.05" (1.27mm). In other words, it's very close to 16AWG.

The attractions of the TS100 are its portability and the fact that the tips have so-called "direct-drive" heating. It would cost about the same as the Hakko (street price US$105) when essential accessories are added, unless I was prepared to wait 18-45 days for delivery from China. The downside is the limited range of tips, which is not an issue with Hakko. I also suspect that an upgraded TS100 V. 2 is coming sooner rather than later, which makes me somewhat reluctant to purchase one just now.

So those are my sensible ~$100 options. In the next post, I'll be talking about two other options, both of them a few rungs up in quality, but also in price

 

[reg]

I'm considering soldering stations made by JBC Soldering Tools and Pace Worldwide in addition to Hakko's FX-888D station and Miniware's TS100 soldering pencil.

JBC's CD-B Soldering Station (Model CD-1BQF in North America) and Pace's ADS200 Soldering Station are in a different league. They are in price, too. JBC's CD-B is US$415. Pace's ADS200 has a current street price of $350 ($315 one foregoes a desirable option).*

I have no doubt that the Hakko ($105 street) is adequate for my needs, at least if I use lead-based solder, which needs lower temperatures than lead-free. The Miniware probably is too, despite the limited tip range (see the post just above on the issue with the TS100 tips).

To be honest, I'm considering the more expensive options mostly because I enjoy using high quality tools. Who doesn't? Financially, the JBC and Pace are hard to justify, although I can if I start making my own cables across the board, for which my annual bill is not insignificant. I do like the fact that the JBC and Pace are unquestionably up to handling lead-free solder. I also have a standing discount code with one of the larger U.S. vendors of gear for electronics, which would help with the sting

Except for Miniware, all of these companies have a strong North American presence. I see that as important for support and warranty reasons. JBC, which is based in Barcelona and has been making soldering equipment for over 90 years, has an office in Missouri. Pace is a U.S. company, based in North Carolina. Hakko, based in Osaka, has an office in California. Miniware has some warehouse space here, but that's all. If I run into a problem with its TS100, it won't make financial sense to send it to Guangzhou.

JBC leads on warranty, at two years. Pace and Hakko offer one year. I couldn't find a Miniware warranty, not even in the TS100 user manual. Maybe Miniware is just being honest. A warranty on a $100 item, exercisable on the other side of the Pacific Ocean, is meaningless.

This is a brief JBC promo video on its CD-B Soldering Station. The video reflects some changes that were made to the model for 2021.

This is Pace's promo video on the ADS200. The reference to Curie Point Tips is to a competing technology used by Metcal and Thermaltronics. I probably don't want to go that route, although I'd love to see Thermaltronics's TMT-2000S, which is very attractively priced.

* Hakko makes a soldering station that competes with these, but I prefer the JBC and Pace. Pace makes a less expensive station than the ADS200, but like the Hakko that I'm considering it uses traditional technology. More importantly, with very few exceptions Pace only sells the tips for the cheaper station in packages of five. These aren't variety packs, either. It's five of the same tip, and each pack costs close to $40.

 

[reg]

A Dutch vendor of electronics equipment published this 2019 one minute video. It shows how quickly several soldering stations heat up. The test included the JBC (analogue version, now discontinued), the same Hakko and Miniware's TS80. I believe that the Pace would perform similarly to the JBC. The much faster response time of the JBC helps explain why it and the Pace are priced higher.

On the graph, temperature in Celsius is on vertical axis, time on the horizontal axis.


Comparison of heating time between our best selling soldering stations

 

[reg]

I haven't made a final decision about whether to replace my ageing soldering iron. It only makes financial sense if I'm prepared to start making my own cables generally, not just for this battery.

I have narrowed my options to the JBC and Pace soldering stations discussed above. I believe that the modern heating technology that these stations have is worth the cost. Their soldering handles/tips are much more responsive, and hold temperature much better, than traditional soldering irons.

From my perspective, these are the main differences between the JBC and the Pace:

JBC CD-B Compact Soldering Station
Model: CD-1BQF (this model code is for the 2021 upgraded station)
Street Price: US$415 ex sales tax
Number of Soldering Tips Available: 150
Warranty: 2 years
Origin: Spain (Canada/U.S. Office in Missouri)

Pace ADS200
Model: ADS200 with SetBack*
Street Price: $350 ex sales tax
Number of Soldering Tips Available: 40
Warranty: 1 year
Origin: U.S.A. (North Carolina)

Both stations are sold with a soldering handle, but without any tip cartridges. JBC offers over 150 different tips, Pace offers 40. I'm interested in certain JBC tips that don't have a Pace counterpart. There is a significant difference in tip price. JBC tips cost $29, Pace tips cost $15. However, I only need a few, which makes the price difference less significant. I also think that the cost of JBC tips is a brake on tips becoming the soldering equivalent of stamp collecting. I'd be asking "Do I really need this?" rather than thinking "It's only $15"

I think that the choice between these stations, especially for people who don't solder for a living, is mostly about preference in industrial design. This comes through in discussions on the EEVblog forum. Dave Jones, an electrical engineer who owns the forum and likes both stations, has referred to this as "the vibe". It is most apparent in posts made by Pace owners, some of whom have characterised the JBC as a sports car, overkill if one is going to the grocery store. The analogy, especially given JBC's 90 year history, is inadvertently revealing of the authors' own design preferences.

My own industrial design preferences? Of the cameras that I own, my hands-down favourite is a 65 year old Leica M3

* SetBack improves tip life. Built into JBC's design, but an option for the Pace, it lowers tip temperature when the handle is at rest.

 

[reg]

JBC CD-B Compact Soldering Station
Model: CD-1BQF (this model code is for the 2021 upgraded station)
Street Price: US$415 ex sales tax
Number of Soldering Tips Available: 150
Warranty: 2 years
Origin: Spain (Canada/U.S. Office in Missouri)

Pace ADS200
Model: ADS200 with SetBack
Street Price: $350 ex sales tax
Number of Soldering Tips Available: 40
Warranty: 1 year
Origin: U.S.A. (North Carolina)

Correction. The JBC warranty turns out to be three years. That pretty much settles it. Nice to see a company stand behind its products. Competitors, including North Carolina's Pace Worldwide, offer a year.

 

[reg]

West Marine's warehouse lost track of the order that I made last Friday (posts 122 & 124), but West's support team on Chat has fixed the problem. Tomorrow I'll have the cable (photo below) for the wiring from the SureSine inverter to the AC outlet.

I figure that West must have warehouse space on the east coast, but according to FedEx the order has been shipped from Hollister, California, not far from the company's headquarters. Maybe it's because it's an order for cable by the foot.

Now I just need to decide on an AC outlet

Very happy with how the battery is performing on DC, but it's about time that I got the inverter going.

 

[reg]

The FedEx driver with my West Marine cable decided that I wasn't home, so we're going to try again on Monday

I've been meaning to say something about voltage as an indicator of remaining capacity with lithium batteries. Will Prowse's voltage chart, which Battle Born has endorsed, came up in post #22 and one or two times subsequently. I don't want to overstate things, but I do want to provide a concrete example of a situation where voltage, leaving aside the theorising, is in fact a very useful indicator.

For those of us who shoot video, it's obviously important to know how much longer the battery will run the camera. Because of that, when I purchase a new lithium-ion battery I do two tests, one to find out how long the battery will run my camera on idle, and one to find out how long it will run the camera with my typical settings when filming. My camera's display shows the battery's voltage, and I make notes on that too. The display shows battery voltage precisely because people who shoot video, almost all of whom use lithium batteries, find it useful as an indicator of remaining runtime.

The table below shows tests that I did a few months ago with a new 50Wh lithium-ion battery. It's a V-mount battery, widely used in digital film production to run cameras, monitors, lights and sometimes sound recording gear.

I don't want to get into a debate about this, but the manufacturers of cameras like mine, and people who use those cameras, have a view that differs from the generalising that goes on on this subject. I might as well add that I also think that Watt hours are what's meaningful when it comets discussions about capacity. For me, this kind of testing is more useful than using such devices as a shunt. It was not a surprise to me when Will Prowse said in one of his videos that he relies on experience and doesn't use a shunt. I want hard numbers that I can rely on, and this kind of testing gives me those numbers. That said, I realise that people who are running several devices off one battery may find that assessing remaining runtime is more difficult.

I have this table with me on my phone every time that I shoot video. The references to a CFast Card are to a kind of memory card, in this case a 250GB card, that some cameras use to record video.

 

[reg]

I hope to receive the Ancor 12 gauge duplex cable today (post #130) on FedEx's second try at delivery

In the past, I've used a Knipex X-Cut Diagonal Cutter (73 05 160) to cut this kind of cable. However, I'm going to try Knipex's new StepCut Cable Shears (96 11 160). Amazon U.S. sells the version with a plain plastic handle, which I've purchased, for $36.

The cable shears should give me a cleaner cut than the diagonal cutter.

Because these shears were introduced only recently, there isn't a lot about them on the internet. This YouTube video briefly demonstrates them as cable shears and as insulation strippers at 2:51:

This longer discussion compares the new StepCut shears to Knipex's standard Cable Shears (96 11 165):

 

[reg]

Very impressed with Knipex's new StepCut Cable Shears. Cutting the Ancor duplex cable, which has finally arrived, is effortless, and leaves a clean cut with no deformation of the cable.

 

[Ampster]

I do want to provide a concrete example of a situation where voltage, leaving aside the theorising, is in fact a very useful indicator.

Yes, in the case of NMC chemistry with more of a sloped charge discharge curve voltage can be a useful tool. That is especially true for an application where one is using most of the capacity.
With LFP chemistry the curve is much flatter. However at 3.0 volts per cell one can be fairly certain that they are near the bottom with about 10% left.

 

[reg]

Yes, in the case of NMC chemistry with more of a sloped charge discharge curve voltage can be a useful tool. That is especially true for an application where one is using most of the capacity.
With LFP chemistry the curve is much flatter. However at 3.0 volts per cell one can be fairly certain that they are near the bottom with about 10% left.

Luckily for me, I'll be doing the kind of concrete testing shown in post #131. It ain't rocket science; and it means that I'll have actual numbers for my actual battery and don't need to pay attention to generalities and endless theoretical discussions about shunts and how many coulombs there are on the head of a pin.

I would be interested in what you're asserting if you had posted the kind of detailed table shown in post #131. That table shows the results of real life, practical tests in terms of both runtime and voltage. As Will Prowse said in one of his videos, he figures out runtime from practical experience. Not hard to do.

 

[Ampster]

I would be interested in what you're asserting if you had posted the kind of detailed table shown in post #131

I am only suggesting that each individual will pick a method and data type depending on the battery type and the use case. There is no universal standard and it may also depend on what data is available. For example when I am driving an EV, I think in terms of miles of range. When I look at the pack powering my home I look at percent SOC. You are free to use voltage as your method.

 

[reg]

You are free to use voltage as your method.

As should be clear from the table in post #131, I use both time and voltage. When I do the tests for this battery, I'll find out exactly how useful voltage is, or isn't.

Because I need this battery to be highly mobile, and because it has several uses, I'll be using a pocket-size multimeter to read voltage, specifically a Hioki DT4221. This is the compact, quite robust multimeter that I carry on my motorbike, where it is definitely not babied

50 second overview:

More technical:

 

[Ampster]

Time works well if the load is always the same. In my examples the loads are always different so I let the sensors do the math. It is easy enough for you with a small battery or two that might last a few hours (512 Watthours) . In my case my system is designed to cover my loads for days (42 kilo Watt hours}. The EVs are even more variable. Sometimes I could go a week before needing a charge (90 kWhs). It all depends on where you are standing.

 

[JaneczkaKad-DSF]

Guess I can do some sort of DIY with infos like this post, thanks, folks