Setting up a minivan system

[Markw]

Let me preface this by pointing out that I am on a fixed income (SSDI) so expensive components (such as a victron multi-plus) are completely out of the question. I am willing to reasonably replace some components I already have if needed.

The minivan: 2005 Kia Sedona LX (no roof rack so will have to either get one installed or build one)

Components I have already purchased:
2x 100 watt Renogy flexible panels (yes, I know..*smacks forehead*)
Ampere Time 100ah LifePo4 battery (still in box, plan to add a second one)
Epever Tracer 3210an 100/30 SCC
12 volt fuse box
GoWise Power 1000 watt PSW inverter
15 ft MC4 extension cable
2x Two wire daisy chain
80 amp bolt on fuse
Bluetti EB70s 716wh solar generator
30 quart compressor fridge
Genmax GM1200i quiet series gas generator

What I need to power:
The fridge mentioned earlier
Laptop (120 volt, 150 watt input using the brick that came with it)
Phones, led lights etc

At some point I want to add a shore power plug, but it isn't something I have on a priority list or anything.

Currently in Arizona and hope to get used panels from Santan.

Now, I know I need some more components (wire, PV cutoff breaker etc). What I am looking for is advice on which components to add and which I can do without.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

What I need to power:
The fridge mentioned earlier

How much energy will this use daily in kWh?

Laptop (120 volt, 150 watt input using the brick that came with it)

How much energy will this use daily in kWh?

Phones, led lights etc

How much energy will this use daily in kWh?

Once you answer the above three questions, meaningful advice can be given.

If you don't know that information, you need to get it. A kill-a-watt type meter can help you measure energy consumption.

 

[Markw]

How much energy will this use daily in kWh?



How much energy will this use daily in kWh?



How much energy will this use daily in kWh?

Once you answer the above three questions, meaningful advice can be given.

If you don't know that information, you need to get it. A kill-a-watt type meter can help you measure energy consumption.

Fridge: 540 watts max (that's constantly running the compressor all 24 hours)
Laptop: 1 kwh per day max
Phones, light etc: less than 300 watts per day

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Fridge: 540 watts max (that's constantly running the compressor all 24 hours)
Laptop: 1 kwh per day max
Phones, light etc: less than 300 watts per day

When you say watts, I'm going to assume you mean watt-hr.

So, that's 1840Wh/day?

I expect that's high as no fridge is going to run its compressor 24/7, and most laptops consume 60W or less and aren't on for 24 hours. 300Wh of phones and lights is pretty damn high too.

I suggest you refine your usage, so you don't over-spend on a system you don't need, but we'll proceed with your numbers:

Planning for winter with panels flat on a roof, where you typically only get about 40% of your rated array, you'll need about 1000W of solar and 2kWh of usable battery capacity.

I doubt you'll be able to get 1000W of solar on the roof of a minivan, plan for however much 24V panels you can get on the roof (72 cell panels). Use the light flexible panels as a deployable array (2 in series) you could angle on the ground or hang on the side of the van with some homemade PVC frames and have them in parallel with your roof array.

With more realistic consumption numbers, you could probably do with something closer to half that size.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Is it a 12VDC fridge (example below) or an AC-only small cube fridge?


Does your laptop have USB-C charging? I assume your lights are 12V. Going all-DC means no inverter idle consumption or losses. That can help stretch your panels and battery.

I like the Bluetti for all the ports and the ability to charge it from your car. 716 Wh isn't much, but it's likely more than your Renogy panels can feed it in a day (much of their output will immediately go into the fridge and laptop, only the excess is available for charging).

I'd first try to get by with just the Renogy panels and the Bluetti. Especially if your fridge and lights are 12V and your laptop has USB charging. Idle consumption might be an issue. I don't know if you can turn the Bluetti's inverter off while keeping the rest of the unit on.

The biggest issue is probably solar production. Van-mounted panels are typically flat, not tilted. That hurts output, especially in winter. And you obviously have to park in the sun. The van can get uncomfortably hot in winter and deathly hot in summer.

Keep the rest of the stuff for now. If the Renogy/Bluetti approach works you can sell that other stuff later (maybe keep the generator). If Renogy/Bluetti falls short they should both be easy to sell and fund some larger used panels to go with your Epever / Ampere Time system.

 

[Markw]

Is it a 12VDC fridge (example below) or an AC-only small cube fridge?
View attachment 117684

Does your laptop have USB-C charging? I assume your lights are 12V. Going all-DC means no inverter idle consumption or losses. That can help stretch your panels and battery.

I like the Bluetti for all the ports and the ability to charge it from your car. 716 Wh isn't much, but it's likely more than your Renogy panels can feed it in a day (much of their output will immediately go into the fridge and laptop, only the excess is available for charging).

I'd first try to get by with just the Renogy panels and the Bluetti. Especially if your fridge and lights are 12V and your laptop has USB charging. Idle consumption might be an issue. I don't know if you can turn the Bluetti's inverter off while keeping the rest of the unit on.

The biggest issue is probably solar production. Van-mounted panels are typically flat, not tilted. That hurts output, especially in winter. And you obviously have to park in the sun. The van can get uncomfortably hot in winter and deathly hot in summer.

Keep the rest of the stuff for now. If the Renogy/Bluetti approach works you can sell that other stuff later (maybe keep the generator). If Renogy/Bluetti falls short they should both be easy to sell and fund some larger used panels to go with your Epever / Ampere Time system.

This is my fridge:

F40C4TMP Portable Refrigerator, 30 Quart (28L) 12 Volt Freezer, (-7.6℉~50℉) Compressor Fridge For Car with 12/24V DC & 110V AC, Suitable For Van, Truck, Vehicles, RV, Road Trip, Camping, Outdoor, Home https://a.co/d/0aEr24R

The Renogy/Bluetti setup isn't even keeping the fridge going all the time (I think one of the panels may have gotten damaged when they blew off the roof a couple weeks ago...yeah, I have made mistakes) even at midday I am only seeing about 75-80 watts. Although if I keep the fridge turned off during the day the panels do seem to give the Bluetti a full charge...then again I can't open the fridge much during that time.

As for lights, I don't have those yet but yes they will be 12v. I will look around and see if I can find a 12v for the laptop (which is currently the only thing that will use the inverter).

 

[sunshine_eggo]

from:

Portable Car Cooler/ Freezer for 30 Quart (28L) (Japan)

Only ship to Japan！ Description:With the F40C4TMP, you have control of your outdoor experiences like never before. With a strong compressor, it only needs 15 mins from 77℉ to 32℉.You can store fresh food and cool drinks for your camping, picnic, road trip, and also can store skincare and facial...

www.f40c4tmp.com

Consumes 1KWH Per Day: The 12v fridge has different modes for options including Max (fast cooling) and Eco (Energy Saving). The rated power is 45W, which means the travel refrigerator consumes less than 1KWH every day. You can plug in overnight without worrying about it will drain the car battery.

That's pretty terrible. Apparently, it does run all the time. It's worse than I thought. This is a pretty absurd energy hog. We have an apartment sized fridge that holds more and uses about 500Wh/day average over the last 5 months (log it on a smart wifi plug).

RV type LED lights are 4W and pretty damn bright. Phones and tablets usually only use 10-30Wh/day.

 

[Doggydogworld]

The fridge looks fine. I'm sure it doesn't use a constant 45W in refrigerator mode, things probably got mangled in translation. You could measure it. The optional insulating blanket is a good idea, if not too expensive. Or you could rig one up, just wouldn't be as pretty.

What laptop is it? Do you have a link to description / specs / manual?

You're correct, 75-80W from your Renogy panels won't cut it. And damaged panels have low resale value. Oh, well. Can you measure each panel individually? Maybe one is pulling the other down. If so you can discard the bad one and maybe find a used 100W replacement. Doesn't have to be Renogy, as long as the voltage curves match.

But it probably makes more sense to sell the Bluetti and the (presumably) good Renogy panel. Buy a couple of these 250W panels for $80 each or similar to plug into your Epever. EDIT - these 300W Renogy panels might be an even better deal. Caveat emptor on Craigslist, measure before paying. You have everything else, minus a couple of wires/fuses/adapters. I've seen claims of low idle consumption for your Gowise inverter, but I'd want to test that myself. Or just run 12V and keep the inverter powered off except when you want to run a microwave or something.

It's generally better to run the fridge when the sun is up and put it into a low power mode once the panels stop producing. Even better if you can lower the fridge temp just before sunset then let it slowly drift back up overnight. The best approach is to make ice while the sun shines, but I don't think your fridge can do that without also freezing your food.

 

[Markw]

The fridge looks fine. I'm sure it doesn't use a constant 45W in refrigerator mode, things probably got mangled in translation. You could measure it. The optional insulating blanket is a good idea, if not too expensive. Or you could rig one up, just wouldn't be as pretty.

What laptop is it? Do you have a link to description / specs / manual?

You're correct, 75-80W from your Renogy panels won't cut it. And damaged panels have low resale value. Oh, well. Can you measure each panel individually? Maybe one is pulling the other down. If so you can discard the bad one and maybe find a used 100W replacement. Doesn't have to be Renogy, as long as the voltage curves match.

But it probably makes more sense to sell the Bluetti and the (presumably) good Renogy panel. Buy a couple of these 250W panels for $80 each or similar to plug into your Epever. EDIT - these 300W Renogy panels might be an even better deal. Caveat emptor on Craigslist, measure before paying. You have everything else, minus a couple of wires/fuses/adapters. I've seen claims of low idle consumption for your Gowise inverter, but I'd want to test that myself. Or just run 12V and keep the inverter powered off except when you want to run a microwave or something.

It's generally better to run the fridge when the sun is up and put it into a low power mode once the panels stop producing. Even better if you can lower the fridge temp just before sunset then let it slowly drift back up overnight. The best approach is to make ice while the sun shines, but I don't think your fridge can do that without also freezing your food.

This is my laptop:

HP Mobile Worstation ZBook 15 G3 15.6 inches FHD Laptop, Core i7-6700HQ 2.6GHz, 16GB RAM, 512GB Solid State Drive, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, CAM, NVIDIA Quadro M1000M (Renewed) https://a.co/d/0IRCeCM

Power brick that came with it says 150 watts (input:100-240v ~25 amps, output: 19.5v 7.7 amps)

I plan to get solar panel(s) from Santan Solar once my SSDI check hits on the 3rd as well as a few other parts. I'd rather go there than trust Craigslist.

 

[Doggydogworld]

This is my laptop:

HP Mobile Worstation ZBook 15 G3 15.6 inches FHD Laptop, Core i7-6700HQ 2.6GHz, 16GB RAM, 512GB Solid State Drive, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, CAM, NVIDIA Quadro M1000M (Renewed) https://a.co/d/0IRCeCM

Power brick that came with it says 150 watts (input:100-240v ~25 amps, output: 19.5v 7.7 amps)

I plan to get solar panel(s) from Santan Solar once my SSDI check hits on the 3rd as well as a few other parts. I'd rather go there than trust Craigslist.

Unfortunately your laptop doesn't seem able to charge from USB-C. This app note says it's possible with HP ZBook 15 G5 and G6.

Here's a thread by someone with your laptop. He bought a 90W car adapter. Your laptop needs 150W, but 12V cigarette lighter circuits are usually fused at 10A so 120W max. His 90W adapter will slowly recharge the laptop when he's not using it, but won't run it indefinitely when he is using it for video editing and such. He later tried to wire up a custom 150W 12V to 19.5V converter, but struck out because couldn't trick the laptop into thinking it was a genuine HP adapter. You might message him for ideas.

I'd pay extra for SanTan peace of mind. But not too much extra.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

like the Bluetti for all the ports and the ability to charge it from your cah

expensive components are completely out of the question

That answered that!

Did you see Will’s latest vid on a home brew power station? Way less money and more power. And a 1200W Giandel psw inverter is only like ~27W idle. And you can buy 12V-to-19.2V car adapters on the amazonian book stop.

I’d go to straight DC as much as possible, and just turn on the inverter when necessary.

Another option is the MPPSolar 1012LV-MS at $432 which can use Solar with the inverter off and has provision for the someday shorepower input. Great little machine.

 

[Doggydogworld]

That answered that!

He already has the Bluetti. The question is whether to use it or try to sell it.

And you can buy 12V-to-19.2V car adapters on the amazonian book stop.

Which ones put out the 150W his laptop can draw?

Another option is the MPPSolar 1012LV-MS at $432 which can use Solar with the inverter off and has provision for the someday shorepower input. Great little machine.

Yes, it has some nice features. Especially when grid power is available.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

He already has the Bluetti. The question is whether to use it or try to sell it.

Right. Sell it was the obvious point.

Which ones put out the 150W his laptop can draw?

There’s another thread that identifies options, but I’d read the specs and buy the appropriate one.

Yes, it has some nice features. Especially when grid power is available.

For $432 it’s a bargain with the onboard charger and basically no wiring to install it. The grid input option just makes it that much better. Of course you need battery and solar cables, but it’s not much more money than a decent mppt, inverter, and cabling.
It’s limited as to solar and inverter output, but any place you’d select this for isn’t likely to have a ton of panel space or need 5000W output.

 

[Doggydogworld]

There’s another thread that identifies options, but I’d read the specs and buy the appropriate one.

I read multiple threads and looked at dozens of specs. I never found one above 120W. I thought maybe you knew of one.

For $432 it’s a bargain with the onboard charger and basically no wiring to install it. The grid input option just makes it that much better. Of course you need battery and solar cables, but it’s not much more money than a decent mppt, inverter, and cabling.

Yeah, Watts247 sells it with 200Ah of LifePO4 and 2AWG battery cables right now for $999. Add a couple of used 250-300W panels and for ~$1200 you've got a plug-and-play low power standalone system that also works with grid power or generator. Pretty hard to beat.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

never found one above 120W. I thought maybe you knew of one.

I wish I did. Sorry.

There’s got to be one! It’s not uncommon