Should I buy one EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra, or seven Delta 3 Plus units for roughly the same amount of $$$?

[Sun Snatcher]

I bought a pallet (36) of solar panels. 405W Hyperion bi-facial Mono PERC 108 Cells. I would like to deploy some of them soon. I didn't realize this solar business was so damn complex and convoluted.

In my ignorance, I thought if a quarter of a panel was shaded, that it would only reduce the output by a quarter. Lesson quickly learned after watching some videos. Then I learned most people recommend wiring panels in series, keeping the voltage high and the amps low, reducing losses. They also said I wouldn't have to use fuses if the panels are wired in series. Nice. I like that. Less parts, no need to spend extra to buy branch connectors, thinner wires are cheaper, etc.

Series is the way to go, they all said!

However, my solar hopes were dashed yet again, when I learned that when the panels are wired in series, they should all be facing the same direction, and to make matters worse, when in series, when one panel gets shaded, it drags down all the others in the chain.

I did buy a Victron SmartSolar 150/45, which is due to arrive shortly, but I must confess, I don't really know exactly how it all works. With the limited amount of knowledge I have, I thought I could run six panels with this SCC, two strings of 3 in series (37.23V VOC x 3 = 111.69, well under 150V limit), paralleled together. I don't know how this is expressed in shorthand, 3S2P or 3S3P or 3S1P or what.

The amp rating of 45 on the SmartSolar, refers to the maximum amount of amps it will pass along to the battery? It has nothing to do with the amount of amps of input it can handle? The ISC (short circuit current) rating on the panels is 13.87A, which times three is 41.61. Does that mean I cannot run 4 in parallel, because it would exceed 45 amps, but I can run three on this controller? Or does the 45 number in 150/45 have nothing to do with that? Could I have gotten by with a 100/35 if I am only running two strings paralleled together of 3 in series (total six)?

I started looking into perhaps going with one of these popular and relatively cheap 48V AIOs (because most everyone recommends doing 48V rather than 12V), but I am really discouraged by all the reports of how loud and noisy they are, plus their notoriety for high idle or self consumption. I do not live in Las Vegas, where I can easily offset this high idle consumption by simply deploying a couple of extra panels. I live in the cloudy Pac NW, where I need to conserve the little amount of sun that I can seize.

To make matters worse, I do not have a property where I can just line up a lengthy string of panels all facing south. I can line up six on the ground at most, and some of those will sometimes get some shade on them from trees and tree branches, which is particularly noticeable right now when the sun is low in the sky.

I have about five different places I am considering placing panels. A few on the second floor upper deck, perhaps a few more on the patio at the ground level getting eastern sun, a few in a nook of the corner of the house facing south, perhaps (after I attach wheels on the bottom of the panels), wheel a few out in the driveway to face south on sunny days, etc.

The point is, I just can't have one or two nice rows of panels all lined up together, facing the same direction.

The EcoFlows (solar for dummies, like me) seem to have the most attractive feature set, and I also like the styling, and the Delta Pro Ultra and Delta 3 Plus are supposed to be very quiet, and of course portable, which gives them an advantage over the AIOs.

I think they likely have a high idle consumption not unlike the cheap high frequency AIOs, however, I imagine that can be greatly mitigated when the inverter is turned off and not being used, and it is only sucking in solar. If someone can cite some figures for no-load idle consumption on the Delta Pro Ultra taking in solar without the inverter turned on, and also with the inverter on, that would be helpful.

So, if only it were so simple, and I had a nice long roof or backyard where I could line up many panels facing south, and they were mostly unobstructed from the shade, I could simply get a Delta Pro Ultra, with its high 450V PV input, and string 10 of my 405 watt panels in series, for a total of 4000W (the DPU's limit on the high input). I could put a couple more in parallel on the low PV input for a total of 12 solar panels.

However, with some panels on the upper deck in the back (east), a few on the ground below in the tiny area of the backyard (east), a handful in the corner nook of the house where by the shed facing south, and the the long portion of the house facing south (can fit six across vertically), a few in the driveway, it doesn't seem feasible to this solar newb to simply string them all in series to one EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra, as much as I would like to.

Furthermore, the main panel in the house is almost 60 years old, and badly needs to be replaced and upgraded to 200A, and there is no available room (circuits) to install a 30A or 50A generator inlet box. So the 240V output on the DPU would only be useful in the future, when I can find a way to upgrade the main panel for a decent price.

So, the Delta Pro Ultra can be had for around $4000 OTD, and the Delta 3 Plus for $541 OTD, so I could buy almost 7 and a half of the D3+ units for the same price as one DPU. The inverter on the DPU is 7200W, and 1800W on the D3+, so four Delta 3 Plus units would give me 7200W of inverter power, or 12,600W if I bought seven. I realize they cannot be paralleled together, so it is not the same as having one big inverter, but 1800W is enough to cover any 120V outlet and most all of my appliances.

The only 240V loads are the electric range/cooktop, and the electric dryer, which is used very sparingly. We do not even use the big 240V oven as much as we used to, because we use out fairly large 120V air fryer (big enough to fit a pizza), because it is just easier. Although we do use the electric infrared cooktop on the range regularly, if not daily. We do not have a well pump or any AC unit that needs a large inverter to run it, because we live in the Pac NW, where it is mostly cooler, where we rarely need AC. If we need the comfort of AC, we can just run a small portable or window unit off of 120V.

We average around 16 kwh electricity usage per day, far below the national average. Our biggest draws of juice are our two fridges and a large freezer (a little less than 6k per day, and periodically running the fan on the gas furnace (when running, draws 370 watts). The past two days have been a bit cold, and we used about 6.7 k to run the furnace, or avg. of about 3.35k per day. The big TV and AVR is on for about 5-6 hours in the evening.

I am not looking to go completely off-grid, but simply want to have an elegant backup solution available for extended power outages, like the one we just experienced this past November, when we were without power for 5 straight days. I don't see the value or frugality in buying a portable power station and some batteries and letting them sit there doing nothing for years on end, waiting for a power outage to come along, so it seems prudent to put these power stations and solar panels to use year round, with the goal of lowering monthly electricity costs, with the benefit of having some juice available when the grid is down.

The Delta 3 Plus has two solar inputs of 500W each (11-60V 15A), so it is seems to me that I could hook up two of these large 405 W panels, one in each input, for a maximum of 810W. Times seven, that is a total of 14 panels total I could hook up to the Delta 3 Plusses, wherever I want to lay them out or install them in different configurations.

I am admittedly ignorant about all of this, but it seems to me that the benefit of going the route of using seven D3+ units, is that each of the fourteen solar panels I could potentially plug into the seven D3+s, would have its own dedicated input, and would therefore not deleteriously impact any of the other panels if it was shaded or removed. I can anticipate wanting to sometimes temporarily remove panels, moving them around to different spots, repositioning them or even reconfiguring them.

For example, I have entertained the possibility of installing three panels flat on the 2 x 6 railings of the back deck (very easy to screw down a couple corner of the solar panel onto the wide railing) during the winter months, when more solar is needed, but when the lady of the house wants to do some deck gardening in the spring/summer, I could easily remove the panels, freeing up space to place her vegetables/herbs on that portion of the deck to grow them. It's complicated, but that is the challenge which I have to work with. Some gaps in the trees where the sun can shine unobstructed for a while, some branches from the neighbors trees which will throw a bit of partial shade on panels when the sun hits a certain spot in the sky, etc.

So, what do folks think? Is it feasible or realistic to run up to seven D3+ units, with two 405 W solar panels plugged into each unit, mitigating the shortcomings of running panels in series along with the ill effects of shading, and also not having to worry about fusing parallel runs? Of course I would need many runs of MC4 cables, fourteen in total to use 14 panels. Some of these runs would be reasonably short, and a few would be longer, so I would have to pay a bit for the cables.

There are benefits and downsides, of course. The DPU has the benefit of having 240V in and out, which I could certainly take advantage of in the future, and I would not get this with the smaller D3Plus.

However, one benefit is the redundancy factor. If one DPU goes kaput, my solar set up would be out of commission while the problem was being rectified. If one D3+ unit went bad, I could still use the other six, while the seventh was being repaired or replaced.

The plan would be to have multiple D3+ units strategically located in different parts of the house, near where the loads from the inverter will need to be run. One or two in the garage, to run the spare fridge and freezer, another nearby the furnace, which has already been rewired so it can be unplugged, and run off a generator or power station (I ran the furnace during the bomb cyclone with a generator to keep the house warm), one near the living room (since they are said to be quiet) to run the TV, AVR and router, plug-in and charge my laptop while I watch TV, one or two in the kitchen to run the fridge, air fryer, microwave, coffee maker, blender, mixer, griddle, etc.).

You get the idea. I might have to move or shuffle a few units around, and charge them during the day with solar, only to carry them off to use them somewhere else, but that is not a disadvantage, but actually an advantage. The D3+ is around 27 pounds, the perfect weight to sling around and force me to get some exercise moving them from the downstairs/garage to the upstairs. I don't get enough exercise and wheeling out some 49 pound solar panels and moving around some power stations would be a fun way to force me to get some more exercise.

I just came up with this idea off the top of my head, and probably haven't thought it through thoroughly, so I am prepared to have my solar dreams dashed, and have someone tell me why this is not feasible or practical.

Seven Delta 3 Plus units are slightly cheaper ($3787) for me than one Delta Pro Ultra ($4000), and I would have 7.1 kwh battery capacity vs. 6.1 kwh with the Ultra, and a total of 12,600 watts of inverter power (yes, I realize all separated). I would have access to USB ports wherever I placed a D3+ to run my devices and charge my phone(s), where I wouldn't have that with the Pro Ultra.

If at some point in the future I invested in a new main panel, with a generator inlet box and interlock to run the whole house, and wanted something more elegant and convenient such as the DPU for whole home backup, I could envision giving a few of these smaller units away as gifts to family, or sell them off.

Of course, I wouldn't have to purchase seven exactly, or all seven at once. With just a few, I could cut our electricity usage down quite a bit just by powering off-grid nearly 6 kwh from the two full size fridges and freezer every day, and shave 2 or 3 kwh of electricity from the furnace during the colder half of the year, when the fan runs more frequently.

If I could generate any excess solar during the summer, I would add some portable or window AC for those handful of days when it gets up into the 90s-100. I am even considering getting the EcoFlow Wave 2 portable heat pump, which would cool our smaller rooms down a bit.

Of course, I would add some cheap 48V battery storage to capture and store as much sun as possible, and when the sun goes down and I am not taking in any more solar, I could simply unplug the solar from one or both of the XT60i inputs from a few of the units and plug in a 48V battery to charge up the Delta 3 Plus enough to get it to last through the night, running the loads.

Is this totally crazy, or does it sound like something that is a bit of a challenge, but feasible? Go ahead and make fun of me, I have only been researching all this solar business for a month or so. It will take a while to get up to speed and come up with the most cost-effective and convenient solution, which is also kind of fun as well as a learning process.

 

[quantum`]

Yowsa, lotsa q's.

I bought a pallet (36) of solar panels. 405W Hyperion bi-facial Mono PERC 108 Cells. I would like to deploy some of them soon. I didn't realize this solar business was so damn complex and convoluted.

Must have been during the exemption period for bifacials.

In my ignorance, I thought if a quarter of a panel was shaded, that it would only reduce the output by a quarter. Lesson quickly learned after watching some videos. Then I learned most people recommend wiring panels in series, keeping the voltage high and the amps low, reducing losses. They also said I wouldn't have to use fuses if the panels are wired in series. Nice. I like that. Less parts, no need to spend extra to buy branch connectors, thinner wires are cheaper, etc.

Series is the way to go, they all said!

However, my solar hopes were dashed yet again, when I learned that when the panels are wired in series, they should all be facing the same direction, and to make matters worse, when in series, when one panel gets shaded, it drags down all the others in the chain.

Depends. Most panels these days have bypass diodes, usually 3. If the cells are wired in series longways and you get shade across the bottom, the bypass doesn't help. If the cells are wired top-third/middle/bottom-third, then shading of the bottom will bypass only that area.

In practice, wiring them in parallel isn't done because you are multiplying current rather than voltage, and would end up with a 1"-2" DC cable going to the inverter.

Since shading is a concern, consider microinverters. Enphase is popular, I like Chilicon but can't use them as my panel voltage is too low for it to start. Oops looks like you want batteries. Micros can use AC-coupled ones.

I started looking into perhaps going with one of these popular and relatively cheap 48V AIOs (because most everyone recommends doing 48V rather than 12V), but I am really discouraged by all the reports of how loud and noisy they are, plus their notoriety for high idle or self consumption. I do not live in Las Vegas, where I can easily offset this high idle consumption by simply deploying a couple of extra panels. I live in the cloudy Pac NW, where I need to conserve the little amount of sun that I can seize.

I mount mine on the outside wall. Make sure it's outdoor rated though. If you want to grid-tie, make sure you buy a hybrid inverter, if string.

To make matters worse, I do not have a property where I can just line up a lengthy string of panels all facing south. I can line up six on the ground at most, and some of those will sometimes get some shade on them from trees and tree branches, which is particularly noticeable right now when the sun is low in the sky.

I have about five different places I am considering placing panels. A few on the second floor upper deck, perhaps a few more on the patio at the ground level getting eastern sun, a few in a nook of the corner of the house facing south, perhaps (after I attach wheels on the bottom of the panels), wheel a few out in the driveway to face south on sunny days, etc.

The point is, I just can't have one or two nice rows of panels all lined up together, facing the same direction.

That's a problem. The most MPPTs you're likely to get is 3. These are PV inputs to the inverter -- each is a separate 'island', and each island must have the same brand of panels and be facing the same way in the same area. Microinverters would solve this dispersal problem.

Furthermore, the main panel in the house is almost 60 years old, and badly needs to be replaced and upgraded to 200A, and there is no available room (circuits) to install a 30A or 50A generator inlet box. So the 240V output on the DPU would only be useful in the future, when I can find a way to upgrade the main panel for a decent price.

Gad, either you're making this all up, or you are understanding the situation. You can NOT put solar on this old load center.

So, the Delta Pro Ultra can be had for around $4000 OTD, and the Delta 3 Plus for $541 OTD, so I could buy almost 7 and a half of the D3+ units for the same price as one DPU. The inverter on the DPU is 7200W, and 1800W on the D3+, so four Delta 3 Plus units would give me 7200W of inverter power, or 12,600W if I bought seven. I realize they cannot be paralleled together, so it is not the same as having one big inverter, but 1800W is enough to cover any 120V outlet and most all of my appliances.

In the 21st Century, any inverter that can't be paralleled, should not be considered.


This is cutting into my drinking time...

 

[Sun Snatcher]

Yowsa, lotsa q's.

>> Must have been during the exemption period for bifacials.

Sorry, I don't even know what this means. What exemption? I just bought these panels less than a couple weeks ago. I know if anyone bothers to read this they are probably thinking it was foolish for me to go and buy a pallet of panels knowing so very little about solar, but I got them brand new from a reputable company, delivered on a pallet to my garage, for less than 0.15/w, so they were cheap, and I don't think I will lose any money on them. I could easily sell the ones I don't use for a profit. I won't be able to use all 36. If they work out well and I figure out how to do solar, I have family members in the area who do have large fenced open backyards who could make use of all of the panels I don't want or need. It's a shame that they are not interested in solar, and have yards/properties more suitable for solar, and now I have caught the solar bug but have a challenging environment in which to place them.

The reason I chanced upon on a deal for these panels is from watching some Will Prowse videos over the last several weeks. I never heard of him or this forum until December. I saw a video where he said that his favorite panel for 2024 was the Aptos bi-facial, and then when those were unavailable or the price jumped, he mentioned the Hyperion were almost identical or similar. So I googled Aptos and Hyperion and happened upon a local deal for an entire pallet. If I wasn't so busy with work, and wanted them badly enough, I could have bought a hundred of them.

>>> Since shading is a concern, consider microinverters. Enphase is popular, I like Chilicon but can't use them as my panel voltage is too low for it to start. Oops looks like you want batteries. Micros can use AC-coupled ones.

I only paid $60 per panel delivered, brand new. I could have gotten them for $56 a piece out the door if I had a proper truck to haul them all, but I had to pay $150 for delivery. How much are these microinverters? A couple hundred dollars or more a piece? How many panels does each one control? I am doing this completely on the cheap. It's not that I couldn't afford them, I am just frugal and like the challenge of doing something as inexpensively as possible. I don't necessarily want the most professional or slick solution, I want the most cost effective, and I am not intending to live here on this property for the next two decades, so I am not investing big bucks in a long term 20 or 30 year installation. I will likely move in the next 5 or 10 years. I am not paying to take trees down and getting permits and inspections to put many panels on the roof.

>> Gad, either you're making this all up, or you are understanding the situation. You can NOT put solar on this old load center.

I had no intentions to. The main panel is so old that I could not even get an interlock for it, and I couldn't get an electrician to work on it, because he would insist on a replacement. I realize that the house can never be sold without upgrading the panel, so I know that eventually it will need to be replaced, unless we decide to sell the house to be demoed and a new house rebuilt in its place. Many older homes in our area are being sold and demolished and they just build a much larger newer one in its place. I haven't decided whether it is worth it to invest several thousand dollars in a panel upgrade if the house might be sold for demolition anyway. Obviously if we wanted to sell the house to be lived in by the buyers, the panel would of necessity have to be replaced first.

That is why I am exploring the possibility of using (multiple) portable power stations. They are portable, and therefore not a permanent installation, and hopefully I might be able to get away without having to deal with permits and inspections, and I can take the solar panels and power stations with me if and when I move away from this property.

Also, I don't want only a permanent installation mounted on the wall, tied into the grid. I like the ability to have portable power stations, because some of my family members (and also neighbors) were suffering a bit without power and heat during this last bomb cyclone, and I want to be able to bring some power stations to their house and help them out. If I have seven (just to throw out a figure), I could spare a few during an emergency and still have some to keep things running here. Especially since I have a few portable inverters lying around, and a Honda EU2000i inverter-generator as well.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

Another question I forgot to ask. Does anyone know if the EcoFlow app can handle monitoring/controlling multiple power stations at once? It would be nice if they could. It would be unfortunate if I had several of their power stations and could only connect to one of them at a time to monitor what was going on.

 

[Crowz]

For the kind of money your talking about I would get a 10kw srne asp inverter for $1600 or less and spend the remainder of that money on batteries. You could run for days compared to the eco stuff. I have an eco-flow delta 2. Nice toy but no where in the league of my main house equipment powering things. The srne unit can but paralleled up to 6 units if you need to so it can do 60kw and each one has two mppt solar chargers with 11kw worth of solar input PER unit.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

For the kind of money your talking about I would get a 10kw srne asp inverter for $1600 or less and spend the remainder of that money on batteries. You could run for days compared to the eco stuff. I have an eco-flow delta 2. Nice toy but no where in the league of my main house equipment powering things. The srne unit can but paralleled up to 6 units if you need to so it can do 60kw and each one has two mppt solar
chargers with 11kw worth of solar input PER unit.

I know my post was kind of long, and I can fully understand if you did not read through it all carefully, but did you see the part where I said that the main panel is nearly 60 years old? (the original one that was installed in the house). How am I going to make these AIO inverters that hang on the wall run my house without spending several thousand dollars to upgrade the panel first and also install a generator inlet and transfer switch? I don't think there is any way of connecting or running these AIO inverters through such an old panel, which is too full and has no available circuits as it is. There is no room. So, it won't do much good to have an inverter on the wall in the basement, where the panel is, if I can't tie it into the panel to run the house.

A lot of these AIO units do have a lot of solar input, some of them up to 500V, I see, which is nice, but I don't have the knowledge to know how to make several small strings in different areas of the property all play nice with each other with one of these units. At least all the panels I have are the exact same size and model. But I will have to place panels strategically in different places around the property on the east, south, and west side of the house to make use of many panels. Less than ideal, but the panels are cheap, so the ones on the east side of the house might get a couple of hours of good sun, and then later in the day the panels on the opposite side of the house (west) might get a couple of hours, and some facing south alongside the house might do a little better and get a few. It's hard to tell in the winter, with the sun so low, and plenty of trees in the neighborhood, both on my property and some of the neighbors to the south. Things will get better in the spring and the summer, and I will see how much solar power I can muster.

Only recently have I begun the process of going outside on sunny days to strategically analyze possible locations to place panels to maximize exposure and output.

I know you said the Delta 2 is just a toy, but the Delta 3 Plus is obviously much improved and more capable, as far as I can tell. Double the solar input (can run two of my 405W panels on each unit), and I read reports that the Delta 2 fans were quite loud and obnoxious under load. The newer Delta 3 Plus is said to be far quieter.

Obviously I can't have multiple of these units running in different rooms of the house running things locally (via extension cord) if they are obnoxiously loud. If they weren't quiet units, I would have dismissed the possibility I am considering from the get go.

Recall, my main goal is not necessarily to run every single circuit or light or outlet in the whole house. I simply want to identify the biggest load draws which I can transition to powering off-grid with solar + batteries/inverters/power station(s). The spare fridge and freezer in the garage, and the gas furnace in the basement, would be an obvious place to begin, especially since I could route wire from the solar panels easily into the garage. The upstairs fridge butts right up next to the pantry, and on the floor in the back of the pantry is a nice little corner spot where I could set another Delta 3 Plus which could power the upstairs fridge, and the microwave above the stove is kitty corner to the pantry as well, and I could probably rig a short extension cord so I could run it off the same unit.

The two fridges, the large freezer, and running the fan for the furnace account for about half of our daily electrical usage. LED lights and efficient laptops don't use a whole lot of power. Cooking dinner on the 240V electric range and oven, or with the air fryer, and using the microwave does consume lots of power for shorter periods of time. We don't do laundry very often, like some households, who are running their washer and dryer practically every day. We only turn on the big TV and the AVR in the evening, when we sit down to eat dinner. I could place another Delta Pro 3 in the corner of the living room and power the internet modem/router, the TV, and AVR with it.

The short-term goal is to cut our power usage down in half or little more, and save like $400 a year on electricity. Over the course of 5 or 10 years, that would justify the cost of these power stations, which are convenient to have when the grid is down. I just can't justify spending thousands of dollars on power stations and batteries to sit around collecting dust for possibly years, as insurance, in case an extended power outage occurs. I already have a generator for that, but it is a dirty and noisy solution. I need to put the power stations to use on a regular basis, to lower the utility bill and justify their cost.

I would much rather try to make solar work, if I could manage it somehow.

Once I become more knowledgeable and experienced making solar work, I can begin to convince my extended family (and some friends) that they can do it too.

I suppose I will just have to buy one of these Delta 3 Plus power station "toys" and play with it, plugging it into a couple panels here, and a couple there, on different parts of the property, to determine how many photons I can expropriate from out of the atmosphere, and whether or not it will be worth it to buy several more.

I will also try to figure out how to hook up the Victron MPPT when it arrives. Although I will need a LiFePO4 battery to get it up and running, and I haven't bought one (or more) yet. Waiting to pounce on just the right deal.

Since I do not have much in the way of high current loads to run (for example, we use a cordless vacuum with a battery), and most of my energy usage consists of smaller loads of 100-400 watts (fridge, freezer, furnace fan), but which cycle on and off 24 hours a day, I am also considering a strategy of running a couple smaller efficient Victron inverters to run the aforementioned, perhaps buying a cheap Chinese 2500W 48V to run higher current loads like microwave and air fryer for briefer periods.

The only challenge, is how to best fill up the battery bank so as to run these inverters 24/7. Perhaps several smaller Victron MPPTs, one for each group of a couple or few panels at various points on the property.

The side of the house facing south is pretty tall (but the roof facing south is a small triangle and could only hold 3 panels), and I could run two rows on top of each other of six panels, for a total of twelve. That would be ideal, but I would have to build a wall of solar panels along this side of the house. I would design it so it could slide out a bit and tilt. I would love to do it, and it wouldn't cost much, but I am sure something so bold would get some curious stares from the neighbors, and the city would probably harass me and say I need permits, inspections etc. and maybe make me take it down.

I don't live out in the rural country, where you can get away with a lot of stuff on your property. I live in suburbia, where the city government loves to dictate to everyone what they can and can't do. I probably have to get a permit just to change an outlet.

 

[Crowz]

I would suggest looking at will's videos for making portable power systems. Anything you can plug into the eco-flow can be plugged into an all in one.

 

[quantum`]

OP you are not getting around upgrading that load center, if you're going to solar. And it sounds like you don't have the skills to upgrade the panel yourself.

Time to accept that, or sell the house, or sell the panels.

You haven't been making the best decisions, at every step. Success is 90% preparation, 10% perspiration.

 

[Brucey]

Another question I forgot to ask. Does anyone know if the EcoFlow app can handle monitoring/controlling multiple power stations at once? It would be nice if they could. It would be unfortunate if I had several of their power stations and could only connect to one of them at a time to monitor what was going on.

Yes, the ecoflow app allows you to monitor multiple units from an overview page which shows soc levels and then drill down into them.

I ran baseloads of my house (fridge/freezer, two other freezers, internet/nas/TV etc on a single delta 2 max for quite awhile.

The issue you may run into is that they don't support solar pass thru, in my experience they will microcyle from 100% down to 98%,then enable the mppt ports, charge up to 100%, then repeat.

I got sick of that nonsense so got a 48/1200 and then run the ac out into the ac in of the d2m, that way it's just passing through the ac without needlessly discharging the battery.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

I would suggest looking at will's videos for making portable power systems. Anything you can plug into the eco-flow can be plugged into an all in one.

From the videos I've seen, Will doesn't seem to worry too much about the noise these things make. Many of the AIOs (like the EG4 3kw) he throws onto a hand truck or cart are notoriously noisy, are they not? Some of the earlier EF Delta units are also noisy (no thanks), but the more recent models, e.g. the Delta 3 Plus, Delta Pro 3, Delta Pro Ultra, are said to be very quiet. The Delta Pro 3 is claimed to operate as low as 30 dB under 2000W. They claim the Delta Pro Ultra is completely silent for the first 30 minutes under 2,000 watt load.

Folks just don't seem to understand the specifics of my situation. One large AIO doesn't seem suitable to run my house if I can't run the loads through the panel. I require small and quiet portable solutions which I can place in a few different areas of the home, near where the loads need to be run. I am not going to be wheeling hand trucks with massive 48v LiFePO4 batteries and AIOs strapped to them up and down the stairs of this split level home, and I am not going to be tripping on long extension cords everywhere.

The Delta 3 Plus units are light and easy to move around, supposedly quiet, powerful enough to run any of my 120V loads (although I imagine using the microwave or air fryer on one for an extended period of time will get the fan noise to ramp up quite a bit), and they have two 500W PV inputs that might work well for a pair of my 405W panels.

I have nothing against Anker, Bluetti, Jackery, etc., as I've never owned a power station. However, the Anker C1000 is a year older than the Delta 3 Plus, the Bluetti AC180 is a year and a half older, and these all have gimped solar inputs, are noisy, etc. like the older Delta models.

The EcoFlow Delta 3 Plus is only a few months old, so it has leapfrogged the others, with the latest and greatest advancements.

I wish Anker, Bluetti or some other company would come out with something new in the next couple of months to catch up or outdo the EcoFlow, and they would all start adding additional and more flexible PV input options.

Anyway, I know this is a DIY solar forum, so folks are going to be biased toward building their own system from scratch, with separate components, getting some satisfaction from that, and they are going to shy away from slick pre-packaged plug and play solutions like these portable power stations.

One possible downside to my plan is that the Residential Clean Energy Credit requires 3 kwh of battery storage to qualify. These Delta 3 Plus are only 1 kwh a piece. I don't know if I could get away with buying three at a time and claiming that counts as 3 kwh of battery storage.

All these folks on the forum who are buying multiple 12V 100AH or 48V 50 AH batteries (both under 3 kwh capacity), are they not trying to claim the 30% tax credit? Or are folks who bought a four pack (totaling over 3 kwh) claiming this credit and getting away with it?

If I can't claim three Delta 3 Plus units (totals 3 kwh) against the taxes, that would put a damper on my plans a bit. It would be better to buy a larger unit with minimum 3 kwh.

 

[Brucey]

I added up all the batteries I had purchased last year and that were put into service powering house loads from solar. That was well beyond 3kWh of capacity. That included 12v in series, 24v in series and 48V 50Ah amongst others.

You should go with your tax advisors advise not anyone on the internet.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

Yes, the ecoflow app allows you to monitor multiple units from an overview page which shows soc levels and then drill down into them.

I ran baseloads of my house (fridge/freezer, two other freezers, internet/nas/TV etc on a single delta 2 max for quite awhile.

The issue you may run into is that they don't support solar pass thru, in my experience they will microcyle from 100% down to 98%,then enable the mppt ports, charge up to 100%, then repeat.

I got sick of that nonsense so got a 48/1200 and then run the ac out into the ac in of the d2m, that way it's just passing through the ac without needlessly discharging the battery.

Thanks a lot Brucey, that's good news to know that in the EcoFlow app, there is an overview page where I can pull up and monitor multiple units on the fly. That adds to the feasibility of my plan of using multiple units with two 405W panels hooked up to each unit.

When it gets dark in the evening and the solar goes away, I would think the D3+ units would be fully drained by the morning from running the fridge/freezer/furnace overnight and the TV/AVR also for a handful of hours at night, plus we do our major cooking at night, which will also drain the unit(s), so they would mostly all be at an empty state of charge by morning, and then they would be plugged into the solar and all filled back up during the day. Rinse and repeat. I think I would run most of the solar cables from the various panels scattered about the property into the garage, and line all the units up in a row, on a rack. The panels on the back deck off the kitchen could be fed into one or a couple of D3+ units in the kitchen/living room area to power the upstairs fridge and microwave, air fryer, etc.

I also am looking to pick up a deal on some small and efficient (and I assume quiet) Victron 48V inverters, like the 1200VA. I already have a 12V 375VA that I picked up for $70. But I don't have any 48V Victron inverters.

If I could just line up all my panels in a row and lay them out, like I see Will do (on his roof?) in his videos, I would likely just get one large Victron MPPT SCC, run them all in series, and feed a large battery bank, with efficient Victron inverters to run my base loads, coupled with a cheap Chinese 2500W inverter to run things like microwave, air fryer, griddle, coffee maker, etc.

What do you think of this 2500W 48V inverter for $200? The reviews don't seem too bad, and it's got a nice screen, comes with 4 AC outlets, USB outs, some cables.

Amazon.com

 

[JustHank]

I have done some of the same research you have. My own mission is to have limited power when our electricity goes out. A couple of observations:
1. There are some excellent Victron experts on this forum. However, you may also want to visit the Victron user forums:
community.victron.com
2. If you don't have a Kill-A-Watt or some other way to measure actual usage beyond utility bills, get one before you buy anything else and start measuring.
3. Figure out your actual power needs. Someone suggested three steps:
a. how many kWh for everything, including the Margarita-Master-3000 (hat tip to rednecktek)
b. bare bones needs, maybe a 7 Watt night light and a fan.
c. then work out what you really need - and for how long. Do you *really* need two refrigerators and a freezer?

I don't claim to speak for everyone, but I think this forum deals better with posts containing numbers.

Regarding the Delta fan noise, I had one (2 with spare battery) charging in my dining room last night. I could hear when the fans came on, just like I can hear the refrigerator come on. I would suggest listening to one yourself rather than reacting to what someone posted somewhere.

I think your plan of having a Delta as a local backup is probably workable - depends on how you perform step 3-c above. My initial impression is that 7 is too many, and having a couple of larger units may be better. But you need to focus on one mission - whole house coverage at all times, no matter what the power company does? Minimal coverage for a temporary condition? Switching to full solar? (That last one is probably not in your budget if I understand your situation correctly.). But have a specific goal and stick to it.

Regarding the panel - have you looked at a Generlink? That would provide a transfer switch. If it would meet your power needs from step 3-c (40A limit IIRC, but check it out), you should next *go to* your local building department and ask if they are approved for use in your location. Don't call and don't rely on the internet - personal touch is better IMHO. Then find out if your power company will allow them. Then assess if you can protect the unit with a cage or something, since they stick out further than the current meter.

Generlink is not necessarily the best option, but if you can't find an electrician who will install a transfer switch without replacing the panel ($$$), it may be your best choice. As others have said, you should consider a panel upgrade when you can afford one.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

I have done some of the same research you have. My own mission is to have limited power when our electricity goes out. A couple of observations:
1. There are some excellent Victron experts on this forum. However, you may also want to visit the Victron user forums:
community.victron.com
2. If you don't have a Kill-A-Watt or some other way to measure actual usage beyond utility bills, get one before you buy anything else and start measuring.
3. Figure out your actual power needs. Someone suggested three steps:
a. how many kWh for everything, including the Margarita-Master-3000 (hat tip to rednecktek)
b. bare bones needs, maybe a 7 Watt night light and a fan.
c. then work out what you really need - and for how long. Do you *really* need two refrigerators and a freezer?

I don't claim to speak for everyone, but I think this forum deals better with posts containing numbers.

Regarding the Delta fan noise, I had one (2 with spare battery) charging in my dining room last night. I could hear when the fans came on, just like I can hear the refrigerator come on. I would suggest listening to one yourself rather than reacting to what someone posted somewhere.

I think your plan of having a Delta as a local backup is probably workable - depends on how you perform step 3-c above. My initial impression is that 7 is too many, and having a couple of larger units may be better. But you need to focus on one mission - whole house coverage at all times, no matter what the power company does? Minimal coverage for a temporary condition? Switching to full solar? (That last one is probably not in your budget if I understand your situation correctly.). But have a specific goal and stick to it.

Regarding the panel - have you looked at a Generlink? That would provide a transfer switch. If it would meet your power needs from step 3-c (40A limit IIRC, but check it out), you should next *go to* your local building department and ask if they are approved for use in your location. Don't call and don't rely on the internet - personal touch is better IMHO. Then find out if your power company will allow them. Then assess if you can protect the unit with a cage or something, since they stick out further than the current meter.

Generlink is not necessarily the best option, but if you can't find an electrician who will install a transfer switch without replacing the panel ($$$), it may be your best choice. As others have said, you should consider a panel upgrade when you can afford one.

Thanks for the input. I have a Kill-A-Watt meter, which is why I was able to quote specific figures for electricity consumption of the gas furnace, my two fridges and freezer, etc. Of course I want two fridges and a freezer. The downstairs spare fridge is a side by side with freezer, and then I have an upright freezer also. So, basically three freezer sections. One chest style pull out on the French door Kitchenaid upstairs, plus the two freezers downstairs. We find all sorts of good deals on food at the grocery store and freeze things. For instance, I bought around 100 pounds of various types of sausage recently for under a dollar a pound. Nice tasty sausage from Hill Meat Company in Pendleton, Oregon. I got some Jimmy Dean 1 pound sausage rolls for 99 cents a piece at the store not long ago. I bought around 15 of them, if I recall. We just got some turkeys marked down after the holidays for 29c a pound.

Having a fridge/freezer downstairs is also useful for convenience, so the upper fridge in the kitchen does not get too crammed and overloaded. I keep jugs of bottled water and such in the fridge and such to keep them mostly full, so they run more efficiently. If I have a lot of stuff I bought and I need more fridge space, I just take the bottled water out. The upright freezer was so crammed full of stuff when the power went out for 5 days this past November, that it was just one big ice cube, and I barely even had to power it, to keep it cool. A well-stocked freezer can stay cold for a couple of days in an outage if you don't open the door. You could also wrap blankets around it as well for extra insulation. If you hear on the news that a wind storm is coming and you think it might knock out the power, you can freeze some bottles of water ahead of time, and then place them in the refrigerator after the power goes out, to keep it cool for longer.

Of course, having a couple freezers and a spare fridge stocked full of food in it is also a useful thing to have in case of emergencies. So, no, I don't want to give up my fridges and freezer.

>>> I would suggest listening to one yourself rather than reacting to what someone posted somewhere.

How am I going to do that? I just know from all the reviews that the Delta 2s were considered quite noisy, although I seem to recall the Delta 2 Max was an improvement. In any case, I have no interest in a Delta 2, since it doesn't have two PV inputs.

Yeah, sure, I probably do not need to rush out and buy seven Delta 3 Plusses. It made for a catchy thread title, however. I do not need that much inverter power.

As I said, the appeal for me is that they can easily make use of (simply plug and play) two of my 405W panels. Seven D3+ units would allow me to plug-in up to fourteen 405W panels in whichever fashion I want, including the ability to add and remove panels with ease and face them whatever direction I want.

Trying to run multiple strings facing different directions, some in series, and some in parallel, with shade sometimes hitting some of the panels at certain times dragging down the output of the other panels, or wiring everything into a complicated combiner box, with a cut-off switch, into multiple charge controllers, sounds like quite the headache to me.

I think I can use the Victron 150/45 to hook up to six of these 405W panels, and then I could buy four Delta 3 Plus units to hook up 8 more (two per unit). Since I might be moving panels around, taking some in and out of commission (like I can fit three on the back deck and leave them up all the winter, to generate more output, but then remove them in the spring/summer when we want to go out and use that portion of the deck), it seems like the plug and play approach of these small portable Delta 3 Plus units might be the way to go.

It's just an idea I am kicking around. I have not made any rash decisions yet.

As for the larger power stations you suggested, they don't seem to have the flexibility of the Delta 3 Plus. Sure, you can hook up a large string of 10 panels to the Delta Pro Ultra high PV input, but as I said, wiring 10 panels in series for *my particular circumstance* doesn't seem very feasible, unless I end building a solar wall about 12 feet high, of two rows of six panels, one stacked above each other. The panels are nearly 6 feet tall (68 inches). I took the cardboard template (from the pallet) which is almost identical to the size of the panels, and determined that I can fit six panels across the side of the house, facing south.

There is a tree in the yard with a thick branch about 20 feet up, that was shading this side of the house where I would put that second row of panels. I went out there when the sun was reflecting off the side of the house and the whole thing was glowing, bathed in sunlight. So, that big branch will be coming down shortly, which will remove a shading obstruction to my array.

It's chilly out (high of 45 degrees today), so no hurry to go out and get that branch. My Victron 150/45 (it was only $150) has not arrived yet, and I still do not have 48V batteries or any 48V inverters or any power stations to play with yet. All I have is my pallet of panels, and I ordered a couple 50 foot rolls (red + black) of Temco solar cable (10% off if I bought two items) terminated with MC4, along with some branch connectors in case I need to parallel some panels or strings.

What do you think of this 2500W 48V inverter for $200? The reviews are pretty good, most people saying it's fairly quiet, it's got a nice screen, comes with 4 AC outlets, USB outs, some cables, etc.
https://www.amazon.com/OLTEANP-Inverter-Outlets-Vehicle-Control/dp/B0CYZCSX1V?th=1

The reviews on the WZRELB inverters on Amazon are not all that great. At least in the last couple of years. Perhaps the older ones were better, and the newer versions they are cutting corners or cheaping out. Many people complaining about the loud and annoying fan noise as well.

 

[Sun Snatcher]

I added up all the batteries I had purchased last year and that were put into service powering house loads from solar. That was well beyond 3kWh of capacity. That included 12v in series, 24v in series and 48V 50Ah amongst others.

You should go with your tax advisors advise not anyone on the internet.

Ok, good to know. Let us know if you get audited, and how it goes.

 

[Brucey]

Thanks a lot Brucey, that's good news to know that in the EcoFlow app, there is an overview page where I can pull up and monitor multiple units on the fly. That adds to the feasibility of my plan of using multiple units with two 405W panels hooked up to each unit.

When it gets dark in the evening and the solar goes away, I would think the D3+ units would be fully drained by the morning from running the fridge/freezer/furnace overnight and the TV/AVR also for a handful of hours at night, plus we do our major cooking at night, which will also drain the unit(s), so they would mostly all be at an empty state of charge by morning, and then they would be plugged into the solar and all filled back up during the day. Rinse and repeat. I think I would run most of the solar cables from the various panels scattered about the property into the garage, and line all the units up in a row, on a rack. The panels on the back deck off the kitchen could be fed into one or a couple of D3+ units in the kitchen/living room area to power the upstairs fridge and microwave, air fryer, etc.

I also am looking to pick up a deal on some small and efficient (and I assume quiet) Victron 48V inverters, like the 1200VA. I already have a 12V 375VA that I picked up for $70. But I don't have any 48V Victron inverters.

If I could just line up all my panels in a row and lay them out, like I see Will do (on his roof?) in his videos, I would likely just get one large Victron MPPT SCC, run them all in series, and feed a large battery bank, with efficient Victron inverters to run my base loads, coupled with a cheap Chinese 2500W inverter to run things like microwave, air fryer, griddle, coffee maker, etc.

What do you think of this 2500W 48V inverter for $200? The reviews don't seem too bad, and it's got a nice screen, comes with 4 AC outlets, USB outs, some cables.

Amazon.com

No idea on that inverter. The main thing with fridge or freezer is when they go into defrost, the power util gets much higher than regular running. I had our main French door bottom freezer in the kitchen, and then in the basement a 21 cuft upright and 7 cuft chest freezer. Nas, internet, tv etc. On the 48/1200. Which was fine steady state at 350W or so but when something went into defrost I'd be overloading the 1200 output at 1400+W and it would eventually shutdown. With a couple of units you should have plenty of capacity for various loads. Just run a bunch of extension cords.

The only downside of the 48/1200 is it can't run a full 15A for a microwave, air fryer etc.