Signature Solar wins... I lose.

[Solar Guy Richard]

The person who made this post.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Whose order?

The person who made this post.

 

[bertiojones]

I'll try and be as fair here as possible.

When it comes to solar panels, we try to be abundantly clear and post it on our website and in multiple places: DO NOT BUY THE EXACT NUMBER OF PANELS YOU NEED.

I 100% agree here. I wish I had seen this warning in your Learn > Shipping & Returns section. Abundantly clear would be a bit of a stretch but you definitely mentioned it in an offshoot section on your website. I wish I would of done more perusing and seen that.

1) Shipping companies literally are denying almost every claim and forcing hours of time to be invested to finally win a claim.....So it's really a horrible experience for EVERYONE - including Signature Solar.

It is a horrible experience for everyone.

We also need to know about damage ASAP - typically any claim outside of 48 hours of delivery is automatically denied because it could have been damaged by the end user. Again - we specifically point this out, screenshot attached:

Again this is all in one section on your site. I mean this honestly please forward this information to people when they purchase. Even a phone call would be stellar! If it truly is the shipping companies vs SS and the customer we need to be a team.

You notified us 7 DAYS after delivery regarding the damage.

Not everyone has the ability to unpack 22 panels on the spot without it being unsafe. When I did unpack them I had one extra person helping and it was still a little tricky to not drop the stack over on itself.

Dana will make a claim to try to be reimbursed for the 1 panel that was broken, like I said before, there is a very large chance that it will be denied due to how long it took for us to be informed of the damage.

Do you not insure the shipments? Genuine question. Would the fact that I have video evidence of the damage as it came off the truck matter at all?

Some people ignore the warnings, but they inherit the risk when they don't listen to our warnings.

I would agree with you if it were some sort of willful negligence. That is not what this is. This is trusting a company to ship a product, trusting that that company is using vendors that help take care of their customers and then me going out of my way to choose a more expensive delivery company that you recommended thinking that would help me in some way. Maybe I am naïve to think that purchasing something online from a stateside vendor shouldn't be a game of Russian roulette.

but where was this effort prior to the issue? Why didn't you heed the warnings and order a panel or 2 extra, as Signature Solar recommended? Why didn't you follow the LTL shipment inspection advice and verify the shipment prior to accepting it? You could have completely mitigated the issue to begin with.

I missed your offshoot recommendations. I followed the inspection advice thinking that documenting the shipment as it came off the truck with video would protect myself and SS. (I was wrong) I couldn't verify the shipment alone as it would of been dangerous to cut the straps by myself.

I'd be inclined to agree with you - except he SPECIFICALLY AGREED TO EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN ORDER TO EVEN CHECK OUT:

I had a hard time finding this info. When I went back into the checkout page this is what I saw:



Perhaps expanding out the box for future customers would be helpful.

We definitely did. There are like 5 things that people agree to prior to purchasing, and then we also email with the same terms and conditions on the order receipt and the shipping receipt. You really have to go out of your way to try to not be told

I am looking through all emails and not seeing any info in

Thanks for your order email (Order confirmation)

...that's the only email I got. I remember the only way I was even able to get to tracking number was to login and go to the order. I just looked through my spam and I am not seeing any other emails either. (Perhaps you guys have an email issue on your end?)

it's much easier to 'meet in the middle' when the middle is disregarding the numerous warnings

Working with Dana was like working with an adversarial Robot. No solutions but just a "You get what you get and don't throw a fit." I work in Customer Service and what she did was take the "Hardline" She could of refunded part of the shipping, offered a credit on a panel and then get me to buy the 3 others. Even if you guys only broke even you sold more panels and scored more customer service points. I was more heartbroken over dealing with her because I was getting hyped to buy 6 batteries from you guys. Now I feel like I would be an idiot to do that now.

Also with the solution of buying the 3 panels and crediting the fourth I couldn't even get a straight answer that she would provide me an exception to qualify as she kept touting the "4 broken panels only" When I looked online and saw that there was a 10 minimum to buy that threw that solution out the window.

I'm not here to say the situation doesn't suck - for EVERYONE involved.

There needs to be a serious conversation to be had about your business model if the process of getting your product to your customer is this big of an issue. This is a nightmare I am sure for you guys and as you can see it kills customer service. There has to be a better way.

Finally, in my next post, I'll post a few pictures of how we ship panels.

I thought you guys did a phenomenal job on packaging the panels.

I really think there is room here to salvage this but if I work with Dana I fear zero progress will be made. She is the "You sha'll not pass" of Signature Solar.

 

[Danke]

The person who made this post.

Nope, I order over the phone.

 

[robby]

Signature Solar is definitely not at fault on this one but this is just another case of how modern convenience can bite you in the rear. I am so old fashion that I rarely have this problem but admittedly I did get caught once during this solar system purchase. Yeah you know, "we don't warranty cell voltage only battery capacity"
Making large purchases purely online is against my religion I see those Carvana advertisements and it just blows my mind.

I must have called Sol-Ark, Fortress Power and EcoDirect about 5 times each before I bought anything and a few things that I was not certain about I requested them in writing before pulling the trigger.

If I had bought those panels purely online like the OP I would probably not have scrolled down and seen that 4 Panel message and I would have also been surprised. Luckily by striking up a conversation with the sales people I usually get all the info I need and I am told about things I might not have thought about asking. I never asked EcoDirect the 4 panel question, I just asked what happens if one or more are broken, that lead to "don't sign unless the driver lets you inspect every panel" and BTW we have a 4 panel minimum replacement policy.
Having someone verbally drill it into my head that I am SOL if I do not follow their procedures is much more effective than me just reading something and then moving on to read something else.

 

[No One is Free]

As stated by Signature Solar, he did not buy enough panels, every other business treats its customers like they do (NOT TRUE), didn’t read the fine print, shipping companies deny claims, or they are crappy shippers.

Signature Solar implies, it is just too expensive or takes to much time to make a customer whole. Will that be the same type of service when you need a warranty claim?

Your shipping examples show minimal protection. LEAST amount of damage is not a good goal, no damage is what normal customers expect and receive every day. Signature Solar, all those excuses above are a red flag, future customers take note. It is possible to send one panel or two in a way it will not be destroyed, other businesses have done it. Maybe SS should offer better packaging for a price, for those who want peace of mind on a $10,000+ purchase.

Customers who like SS pricing will continue purchasing their products, as shipping damage is not the norm, likely save money, but not always.

bertiojones: appears it just wasn’t in the cards for you. Thank you for sharing this experience as it will help others still learning.

I wish all DIY solar people the best on their build.

 

[Danke]

They always tell everyone to order extra panels for your build to cover this exact situation.

Not true.

 

[Danke]

As stated by Signature Solar, he did not buy enough panels, every other business treats its customers like they do (NOT TRUE), didn’t read the fine print, shipping companies deny claims, or they are crappy shippers.

Signature Solar implies, it is just too expensive or takes to much time to make a customer whole. Will that be the same type of service when you need a warranty claim?

Your shipping examples show minimal protection. LEAST amount of damage is not a good goal, no damage is what normal customers expect and receive every day. Signature Solar, all those excuses above are a red flag, future customers take note. It is possible to send one panel or two in a way it will not be destroyed, other businesses have done it. Maybe SS should offer better packaging for a price, for those who want peace of mind on a $10,000+ purchase.

Customers who like SS pricing will continue purchasing their products, as shipping damage is not the norm, likely save money, but not always.

bertiojones: appears it just wasn’t in the cards for you. Thank you for sharing this experience as it will help others still learning.

I wish all DIY solar people the best on their build.

Amazing the panels can make it all the way from China to Texas undamaged.

 

[Danke]

Signature Solar is definitely not at fault on this one but this is just another case of how modern convenience can bite you in the rear. I am so old fashion that I rarely have this problem but admittedly I did get caught once during this solar system purchase. Yeah you know, "we don't warranty cell voltage only battery capacity"
Making large purchases purely online is against my religion I see those Carvana advertisements and it just blows my mind.

I must have called Sol-Ark, Fortress Power and EcoDirect about 5 times each before I bought anything and a few things that I was not certain about I requested them in writing before pulling the trigger.

If I had bought those panels purely online like the OP I would probably not have scrolled down and seen that 4 Panel message and I would have also been surprised. Luckily by striking up a conversation with the sales people I usually get all the info I need and I am told about things I might not have thought about asking. I never asked EcoDirect the 4 panel question, I just asked what happens if one or more are broken, that lead to "don't sign unless the driver lets you inspect every panel" and BTW we have a 4 panel minimum replacement policy.
Having someone verbally drill it into my head that I am SOL if I do not follow their procedures is much more effective than me just reading something and then moving on to read something else.

Exactly, it is standard practice to be offered a replacement if one receives damaged goods. It is what a customer expects. If solar panels are the exception, it needs to be much clearer, like one of those warning pop-up messages when you hit the order button.

 

[timselectric]

Well, I stand corrected.
It's appears that SS has done everything that was agreed to. If you check the box, without reading what you are agreeing to. You can't blame anyone but yourself.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Again this is all in one section on your site. I mean this honestly please forward this information to people when they purchase. Even a phone call would be stellar! If it truly is the shipping companies vs SS and the customer we need to be a team.

Typically if someone places an order online it's because they didn't want to talk on the phone - and even then, we don't have the resources to make a phone call on every order. I agree - we do need to be a team. That's why we have the notices about what needs to happen for a successful claim.

Not everyone has the ability to unpack 22 panels on the spot without it being unsafe. When I did unpack them I had one extra person helping and it was still a little tricky to not drop the stack over on itself.

I know it's hard. But you took a video, which showed the damage (I'm not sure if you just didn't see it, but we also send instructions to inspect your delivery with our shipping notice and notate damage) and you didn't notate it with the driver and additionally you signed and accepted for the delivery which indicates it was delivered in an acceptable state (this is an agreement between you and the shipping company). This is a big deal and is the problem - you blindly accepted the terms, blindly accepted the delivery, and then are upset when both the delivery company and Signature Solar follows to the letter what you have agreed to.

I had a hard time finding this info. When I went back into the checkout page this is what I saw:

You had a hard time finding the info you agreed to? This is a large part of why this problem exists.

Do you not insure the shipments? Genuine question. Would the fact that I have video evidence of the damage as it came off the truck matter at all?

Yes - insurance is provided to a degree by the shipping companies (this is how you make claims). Third party insurance (which we do work with) refuses to insure glass on LTL shipments, and the companies that do allow it make it so expensive that it's not worth it - it is actually less expensive to simply refund customers for broken panels than to add insurance to every order. Maybe I'll research to see if adding an 'insure' button on checkout makes sense - but I highly doubt it will because for panels it would equate to like 25% of the order total. As far as the video - unless you opened the shipment on the same video showing the damage, all that has to be said is that only the packaging was damaged and the product was damaged after it was released. There is no way to prove either way.

I would agree with you if it were some sort of willful negligence.

I mean, you literally clicked 'I agree' to something that you have made clear that you didn't actually agree with (or read). I don't know what your definition of 'willful negligence' is in this matter but the facts speak for themselves. It's not a game of russian roulette (a game of random chance). It's a game of statistics, and they show that there is going to likely be shipping damage in a certain percentage of shipments and we've done everything we can to mitigate this risk, but in the percent of people who do have damaged goods we have policies created that are agreed to by the customer and we follow those policies. If you didn't agree to the policy regarding damaged panels or had questions, you should have contacted us for further explanation or not clicked 'I agree'.

Perhaps expanding out the box for future customers would be helpful.

I'll look into the code to see if this is possible easily, and if not myself or our developer will hand code it.

...that's the only email I got. I remember the only way I was even able to get to tracking number was to login and go to the order. I just looked through my spam and I am not seeing any other emails either. (Perhaps you guys have an email issue on your end?)

I just verified in the logs that the email for shipping was sent to the email you input during checkout (the same one the order confirmation went to). It 100% left our email server - you may want to verify with your email provider that they aren't preventing emails from us. Much like sending a letter in physical mail - as soon as you drop it in the box you have no control over it and if your mailman is throwing away your mail you need to talk to the post office. I'm happy to pull the email headers and provide them in to assist you if needed.

She could of refunded part of the shipping, offered a credit on a panel and then get me to buy the 3 others.

I will refund a % of the shipping based on the additional cost of 1 panel - but to be fair, it's not going to be a large amount because each extra panel only adds a small amount to the total shipping. A majority of the cost comes in with the first panel due to palletization. The extra weight of each panel is negligible to the total. But I will issue this refund. You can choose to use it towards purchasing 4 panels (which I will absolutely set up for you if you'd like) or not - your choice 100%. (I actually just checked and the difference in price between 21 panels shipped and 22 is the exact same - regardless I'll just issue a refund for 1/22 of what you paid for shipping).

There needs to be a serious conversation to be had about your business model if the process of getting your product to your customer is this big of an issue. This is a nightmare I am sure for you guys and as you can see it kills customer service. There has to be a better way.

We use standard LTL carriers - this isn't a Signature Solar issue - it's an issue across the board for solar panel companies. And as others have pointed out in the comments, it's an issue that is being addressed by all these companies in pretty much the exact same manner: Refund broken panels and don't ship less than 4 panels at all. Acting like this is something unique to Signature Solar is misleading to others at best.

Signature Solar is definitely not at fault on this one

Thanks bud!

If I had bought those panels purely online like the OP I would probably not have scrolled down and seen that 4 Panel message and I would have also been surprised.

Don't tell me you are the kind of guy who clicks 'I agree' to stuff you don't read when buying expensive stuff....I don't believe it! Not for a minute!

it is just too expensive or takes to much time to make a customer whole.

We did make him whole - we refunded the entire cost of the damaged goods, and in fact I've also refunded him a prorated amount for his shipping (even though adding 1 panel doesn't change the cost)

Your shipping examples show minimal protection. LEAST amount of damage is not a good goal, no damage is what normal customers expect and receive every day.

If you start a shipping company that guarantees no damages, ever, on deliveries, and can back it up (without being significantly overpriced) - you will be a billionaire by the end of the year. I'd urge you to start this business today and I'll ensure Signature Solar is your first customer.

Amazing the panels can make it all the way from China to Texas undamaged.

We literally have about 2000sqft of warehouse space dedicated to damaged panels. They definitely don't make it here undamaged. We inspect every inbound shipment for damages and set aside anything that is damaged. It is never included in our inventory for sale - we have a damaged goods buyer who visits on site to haul it away.

Well, I stand corrected.
It's appears that SS has done everything that was agreed to. If you check the box, without reading what you are agreeing to. You can't blame anyone but yourself.

Thanks Tim. Your logic is spot on.

 

[Zwy]

Well, I stand corrected.
It's appears that SS has done everything that was agreed to. If you check the box, without reading what you are agreeing to. You can't blame anyone but yourself.

Yes, he agreed to it.

I wouldn't have bought from SS from the get go after numerous reports of the problems members have reported with ordering panels from SS.

I bought mine from San Tan, they use a shipper that doesn't damage the panels.

 

[labeeman]

Amazing the panels can make it all the way from China to Texas undamaged.

A forklift operator would have a hard time putting a fork through a steel container that the panels come in from China.

 

[Brett V]

I know this is a DIY forum and I'm very much a DIY'er myself. These kinds of occurrences are frustrating but go with the territory. If you had hired a solar contractor to do this, they would have been responsible and absorbed the cost of replacing a broken panel. As a DIY'er, you assumed that responsibility but didn't prepare by ordering an extra panel or two. That was poor planning, especially when dealing with ultra strict permitting and inspection state like California.

 

[Danke]

A forklift operator would have a hard time putting a fork through a steel container that the panels come in from China.

Oh, I didn’t know they don’t use forklifts in China.

 

[Danke]

I know this is a DIY forum and I'm very much a DIY'er myself. These kinds of occurrences are frustrating but go with the territory. If you had hired a solar contractor to do this, they would have been responsible and absorbed the cost of replacing a broken panel. As a DIY'er, you assumed that responsibility but didn't prepare by ordering an extra panel or two. That was poor planning, especially when dealing with ultra strict permitting and inspection state like California.

I repair my cars and do general installation, maintenance and construction. A DIYer. When I order a tool or product, if it is damaged, I get another one for no additional costs. Amazing.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Your tools are also not fragile pieces of glass strapped to a pallet.

Yes the shipping companies should take better care of things, I agree. But some things are always going to be inherently more prone to damages.

 

[wmgeorge]

Amazing, I have ordered panels from Renogy both orders came very well packaged, via Fed Ex and zero damage so it can be done. Two of the panels were packaged as singles..... zero damage.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Yes it can be done. It has been done. But it sucks when you get that guy who just doesn't care.

One FedEx driver just shoves our packages out the back end of his truck in the middle of our driveway and drives off. Or complains he can't back in our driveway far enough to do so and just won't deliver. Everyone else just stops on the road and carries the package to the garage or front door.

 

[BradCagle]

I've been watching these Signature Solar experience threads.

Here's my take. If I own a business, I ship you something, you receive it damaged, you're getting another one at your door ASAP.

That would be my policy. I would jump hurdles to make sure these unsatisfied customer threads are not popping up like this.