Signature Solar wins... I lose.

[JLBinTN]

I didn't want to make this as I hate playing the "poor me" card. I am hoping that someone who is on the fence with purchasing from Signature Solar might hesitate a bit or at least have a better understanding of what could happen if you are in a similar situation.

I will keep this short.

05/13 - Bought 22 panels from SS. I used their more premium cost of shipping via Fedex Freight. I paid $796.18 in shipping.

05/17 - SS shipped panels.

05/26 - Received a pallet of 22 panels from Signature Solar shipped via Fedex. I recorded the pallet as it came off the truck. It was packaged well and had some minor damage on pallet but no dents or hard knocks on the corners.

06/02 - I unboxed the pallet and found 1 panel to be shattered. It had a forklift style knock on the backside and it was the outside panel. I reviewed my video and sure enough there were 3 puncture holes on the outside of the shrinkwrap. The damage was visible on delivery but wasnt unless you completely unstrapped all the panels.

06/02 - I reach out to SS via their online form to let them know of the damage. It was after hours but I wanted to let them know anyway I could ASAP.

06/03 - I call in to tell someone over the phone as I am seeing shipping claims are time sensitive. I speak with Dana. I let her know I have video of the damage that should help with SS getting their money back with shipping or filing an insurance claim. I tell her I really need a replacement as I can't install my panels unless they match the quantity and brand of the permit that was issued to me by my county. She tells me that there is some new policy that she isn't sure if it is on their website that they can only ship replacements if there are 4 panels or more damaged. She says to fill out a form she emailed me and she would get back to me. I fill out the form and attach photos and links to video right after getting off the phone.

06/03 - I receive an email back with a canned response (some sections were not even filled in) that I would only get a refund for the 1 panel and that is it.

I responded to Dana that without all 22 panels the entire set is useless and unable to be installed. Dana refused to ship the replacement panel as part of an internal policy.

Dana let me know the only way I would get the replacement panel would be to buy a minimum of 4 panels. I would be refunded the cost of one and I would have to pay for the shipping as well for a total cost of $1,112.18
I pressed Dana to confirm that the only way I was able to get a working set of panels was to pay more money to Signature Solar to ship me out more panels than I needed for the set to work. She confirmed that would be the only option. I attempted to file a claim with fedex on SS behalf and Dana asked me to hold off as they want to make sure they are reimbursed for refunding me the one panel.

~~~~~~~~~
So now what?
~~~~~~~~~
I researched everything and Dana is 100% right. They have zero obligation to send me another panel. SignatureSolar wins. My solar build is now being held hostage unless I purchase 4 more panels for $1,112.18.

As Dana says...
" This will conclude our obligations to you ... Signature Solar has fulfilled all ends of this transaction. You have received your shipment, with one damaged panel that we are fully refunding the amount of the panel back to you, as well as the shipment was received by you and that obligation has also been fulfilled."

At this point I am going to reach out to my County and hope they let me finish the build minus 1 panel otherwise I will need to resubmit the permit app.

Let this be a warning if you are buying panels that you buy way more than you need and if they are broken make sure at least 4 of them are broken.

Can you go ahead and complete your build using the broken panel, then replace it once a new panel arrives? It shouldn't be too difficult to swap out a single panel, or not wire it into a series in the first place.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

Here's my take. If I own a business, I ship you something, you receive it damaged, you're getting another one at your door ASAP.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.

 

[wmgeorge]

It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.

Then the Shipper Does not know how to pack and ship! See my post above, Zero damage on 4 Shipment's total. Correction it was Seven Shipments!

 

[BradCagle]

It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.

I did read all the explanations.

Just my opinion of course: It's all cost of doing business. Either your cost is unhappy customers voicing their grievances on a public forum, or the cost of beefing up shipping so the replacement panel gets to the customer.

Which one cost you the most in the long run?

 

[MrNatural22]

It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.

Way too much jibber jabber and useless excuses from shipper.
Blah blah blah seems to be what you offer.
Refund the customers $$ and stop trying to justify very poor packaging by you, the seller.
If this is so common as you assert, it would ultimately be YOUR responsibility to prevent such damage by designing better shipping protection around your fragile merchandise. Or only sell local.

 

[schmism]

I got flat shipped panels from CA to central IL. First set of 16 arrived with the top one busted because the corners weren't well secured together.

The guy I bought them from quickly agreed to ship me a replacement panel and I opted to buy a second "just in case" either there was another shipping issue or I broke it on assembly or whatever. (figured i could use the extra for a portable setup or something)

Second set of 2 came shipped flat entirely encased in a crate. no issues.

so based on what i've personally experienced (as well as all the comercial sites that get truckloads of pannels for megawatt installs) yes shipping flat is 100% doable.

 

[chriscappuccio]

Amazing the panels can make it all the way from China to Texas undamaged.

If you want to order your own container, you can have the same result!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Refund the customers $$

If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Then the Shipper Does not know how to pack and ship! See my post above, Zero damage on 4 Shipment's total. Correction it was Seven Shipments!

I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

yes shipping flat is 100% doable

I agree - it is doable. It simply costs an exorbitant amount of money and our entire business model is around minimizing costs for DIYers. It is for this reason we have a policy (that is agreed to by the end customer) that they will receive a refund of damaged panels and that we strongly recommend purchasing a spare or 2 during the initial order. And again, I'd like to emphasize - this is not just our company that follows these policies (in fact, we are one of the few that will refund single damaged panels) it's a large amount of the industry.

 

[MrNatural22]

If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.

Shipping safely and securely is your job.......Not the customers...

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Shipping safely and securely is your job.......Not the customers...

When did I say that it is the customers responsibility? However, I 100% believe it is his responsibility to read the terms he clicks to agree to that explicitly state that less than 4 damaged panels will be refunded, not reshipped. We literally followed the terms of the sale that he clicked and agreed to exactly as they are spelled out without any deviation. I simply explained how we ship panels - again - because it seems like you didn't read it or see the pictures before you commented.

 

[chriscappuccio]

Way too much jibber jabber and useless excuses from shipper.
Blah blah blah seems to be what you offer.
Refund the customers $$ and stop trying to justify very poor packaging by you, the seller.
If this is so common as you assert, it would ultimately be YOUR responsibility to prevent such damage by designing better shipping protection around your fragile merchandise. Or only sell local.

Or, sell nationally with a notice that damages of 4 panels or less will only be refunded? And then, follow through on that? (edit: facetious, richard, facetious)

 

[Cyanlite]

let me know what you would change specifically.

I think there's 2 issues at play here:

1. Customer accepted terms and conditions and didn't fully read them all. I agree that it is the customer's responsibility to read all T&Cs and it appears the customer is at fault here for not doing so. However, the customer still has an unresolved issue--he needs 22 panels, not 21. I hope @RichardfromEG4 understands that there's a difference between "right" and "dead right". At the end of the day, SS is the one that will lose a customer if the issue here isn't resolved for the OP. You're literally forcing your customer to support your competitor. If OP says he's willing to buy $10k worth of batteries, then maybe you can ship out that single panel alongside those batteries, or work something out like that.
2. Shipping glass across the country is a tough problem to solve, but it can be solved. But I ordered a Renogy panel off of Amazon, and it came in a thick form-molded styrofoam-like material that gave it absolutely no room to move. If you've ever ordered a 4-pack of EVE LiFePo4 cells online, you'll know the material I'm talking about. But the panel arrived safely from normal Amazon UPS delivery. And it was a PITA to even get out of the box. Also in bulk, you could do a wooden crate or metal steel container. It would raise the costs on shipping, but it's being done though. Folks have been shipping glass in containers like this for decades.

 

[chriscappuccio]

Hey Richard maybe offer a shipping option that reflects the costs of shipping < 4 panels flat in a crate...

 

[Shimmy]

When did I say that it is the customers responsibility? However, I 100% believe it is his responsibility to read the terms he clicks to agree to that explicitly state that less than 4 damaged panels will be refunded, not reshipped. We literally followed the terms of the sale that he clicked and agreed to exactly as they are spelled out without any deviation. I simply explained how we ship panels - again - because it seems like you didn't read it or see the pictures before you commented.

Signature Solar was perfectly within their rights to resolve the situation as they did. It is a logical economical decision.

Or, sell nationally with a notice that damages of 4 panels or less will only be refunded? And then, follow through on that?

Bingo. Make the terms easier for the purchaser to factor in the risk. Sell more panels at the same time.

Really though, it seems like better packaging and handling is what is needed because breakage is wastage.

 

[chriscappuccio]

Bingo. Make the terms easier for the purchaser to factor in the risk. Sell more panels at the same time.

I'm being facetious. That's what they already do.

 

[Koldsimer]

It's laughable that Signature still hasn't learned how to handle these issues. This thread, and many others, never would have been started if they would simply learn to say 'we are so sorry that you are not satisfied. What can we do within reason to make it right?' Sure it may cost you some money in the short term but it avoids the nearly daily critical thread concerning your company's customer service. As many others have said, what does that end up costing? But hey, it's your business.

I wonder why we never see any threads about wholesale solar, santan or Northern Arizona etc.? It's almost like other company's know how to avoid these embarrassing threads from starting.

 

[Rennit]

Imagine this. Signature Solar takes up all these keyboard warriors "advice" on shipping, then price goes up to reflect the extra cost. 1 year later we all find each other in a similar thread titled "Signature Solar prices are too high!"

C you guys in a year, maybe.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Or, sell nationally with a notice that damages of 4 panels or less will only be refunded? And then, follow through on that?

Dude, this is EXACTLY what we did and do. Seriously - go read the previous posts.

 

[Cyanlite]

It's laughable that Signature still hasn't learned how to handle these issues. This thread, and many others, never would have been started if they would simply learn to say 'we are so sorry that you are not satisfied. What can we do within reason to make it right?' Sure it may cost you some money in the short term but it avoids the nearly daily critical thread concerning your company's customer service. As many others have said, what does that end up costing? But hey, it's your business.

I wonder why we never see any threads about wholesale solar, santan or Northern Arizona etc.? It's almost like other company's know how to avoid these embarrassing threads from starting.

Exactly.