diy solar

diy solar

Signature Solar wins... I lose.

If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.
Richard, you might as well just quit while you are behind. I deal with shipping truckloads every day with common carriers. Packages get lost and or damaged all the time. it does not matter how you protect or secure them. There is no merchandise supplier or common carrier that exists that will guarantee "0" damage. Do items get to the destination undamaged, yes. The largest percentage of the time there are no issues. But you can ship a 1000 pallets to a customer without a hiccup and something like this happens and the supplier and carrier are the worst people alive. We have policy's too that customers agree to when orders are placed. If there is a problem the first thing that happens is that it is our fault that the customer has agreed to the stipulations of the purchase without reading what was posted. Of course, they will say it is our fault. They say that they don't have time to read everything when placing an order. At some point you just just have to own it up and say " It was my fault that I agreed to purchase something without reading the order stipulations." Could you as a supplier helped the customer out once he figured out he made a mistake, sure. You could have a special area where you have one person that builds wooden crates with special custom poly urethane inserts to protect one panel shipment. Only problem is that new special packaging may not 100 percent guarantee the panel to get there anyways. And more than likely the customer would not want to pay for a special order pricing like that anyways. Heck, I live 2.5 hours away from you. If it would stop all of this, I would go pick up 1 panel, build a crate and ship it to this guy. But I bet it would not make everyone happy. Richard, do what you can to provide comparably priced products than your competitors. Prepare and ship those products within acceptable normal industry standards. As much as we would like to please everyone, its just not going to happen.
 
I think there's 2 issues at play here:

1. Customer accepted terms and conditions and didn't fully read them all. I agree that it is the customer's responsibility to read all T&Cs and it appears the customer is at fault here for not doing so. However, the customer still has an unresolved issue--he needs 22 panels, not 21. I hope @RichardfromEG4 understands that there's a difference between "right" and "dead right". At the end of the day, SS is the one that will lose a customer if the issue here isn't resolved for the OP. You're literally forcing your customer to support your competitor. If OP says he's willing to buy $10k worth of batteries, then maybe you can ship out that single panel alongside those batteries, or work something out like that.
2. Shipping glass across the country is a tough problem to solve, but it can be solved. But I ordered a Renogy panel off of Amazon, and it came in a thick form-molded styrofoam-like material that gave it absolutely no room to move. If you've ever ordered a 4-pack of EVE LiFePo4 cells online, you'll know the material I'm talking about. But the panel arrived safely from normal Amazon UPS delivery. And it was a PITA to even get out of the box. Also in bulk, you could do a wooden crate or metal steel container. It would raise the costs on shipping, but it's being done though. Folks have been shipping glass in containers like this for decades.

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Man, I 100% agree with you. But, there is a huuuuuuge reason our prices are lower than others on panels. And an overwhelmingly high percentage of people read what they are agreeing to, buy an extra panel or 2, and have NO issues at all. We could definitely do this (crate all panels etc) at the cost of raising our prices. That's not what we are trying to do for people though - we are trying to get people high quality gear at the lowest price, period.
 
SO i guess the question is, @bertiojones , are you a happy customer? Are you still going to buy the 6 batteries from signature solar?
 
That's the problem. You're considering it resolved, but @bertiojones doesn't think it's resolved, otherwise he wouldn't be opening new threads about it here or pursuing chargebacks with Amex.
It says all over signature solar website you need to order more panels than you actually need because they can get damaged in shipping.. The dude literally agreed to their shipping terms before he placed his order. Then he accepted the shipment, without inspecting the panels until 7 DAYS LATER and now is upset with signature solar for following the terms of the purchase which are refunds only for less than 4 broken panels.

The OP doesn't have a leg to stand on in this case. He does however, have bad luck.
This is one of the reasons I did not order my panels from signature solar. Why would I have to buy extra panels in case some other jack wagon ruins them? That's not my problem in my eyes, BUT, when you literally agree to those terms you can't suddenly cry victim when it goes against you.
 
It says all over signature solar website you need to order more panels than you actually need because they can get damaged in shipping.. The dude literally agreed to their shipping terms before he placed his order. Then he accepted the shipment, without inspecting the panels until 7 DAYS LATER and now is upset with signature solar for following the terms of the purchase which are refunds only for less than 4 broken panels.

The OP doesn't have a leg to stand on in this case. He does however, have bad luck.
This is one of the reasons I did not order my panels from signature solar. Why would I have to buy extra panels in case some other jack wagon ruins them? That's not my problem in my eyes, BUT, when you literally agree to those terms you can't suddenly cry victim when it goes against you.
You're absolutely right. OP does not have a leg to stand on in this case. He seriously messed up and will have to pay the price.
 
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Imagine this. Signature Solar takes up all these keyboard warriors "advice" on shipping, then price goes up to reflect the extra cost. 1 year later we all find each other in a similar thread titled "Signature Solar prices are too high!"

C you guys in a year, maybe.
Yep it’s a crap shoot weather you get damaged or undamaged goods.?
Read the warnings. You might get broken goods. But hey you agreed to take that risk.
Faster delivery and some recourse
No guarantee it won’t be in good condition.
(Happy SanTan is only a couple hours away?)

Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)​

“Let the buyer beware”
Nuff said…..
 
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Yep it’s a crap shoot weather you get damaged or undamaged goods.?
Read the warnings. You might get broken goods. But hey you agreed to take that risk.
Faster delivery and some recourse
No guarantee it won’t be in good condition.
(Happy SanTan is only a couple hours away?)

Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware)​

“Let the buyer beware”
Nuff said…..
When I put together my system I ordered from several different companies including signature solar.

One would expect shipping to go smooth as in order placed, invoice with shipping info received, shipping notice with expected delivery and delivery arrived at the right time and place.

None of my orders went that smooth from any of the companies I used so I wouldn't, and don't call out signature solar specifically.

They are a pretty small outfit with good prices and high volume so I can't really complain.

In the case of this post my personal opinion is the op should be happy he even got reimbursed after accepting the shipment and waiting so long to inspect for damages.
 
numerous threads on these forums about issues with Signature Solar
I have to chip in with some stats here because otherwise this is really taken out of context.
1) We see the most discussions on the forum because we are one of (if not the largest) and only wholesale solar company who's entire business is directed towards the DIY community and keeping our prices as low as humanly possible to help everyone get into solar, regardless of their budget.
2) Signature Solar is probably the only company, other than Dexter from Current Connected, who actually even makes an appearance on the forums. People know this, people see us on here, and there are likely multiple threads that only began because people know they will be heard. It's not all bad either. I get TONS of PMs from people thanking me for fixing issues or just being here in the first place.
3) We have hundreds of shipments that go out every day and arrive undamaged, with happy customers. We have dozens of tickets opened up where we make a repair or replacement (according to our terms of service) with NO issues because people read and understood the terms and 100% knew what was going to happen and what the outcome would be. It is completely unfair for every person on here to villainize Signature Solar for simply following the terms of service that both parties agreed to. Imagine if Signature Solar attempted to change the conditions of the purchase after the fact - and wanted to charge more to keep the warranty for the battery in place or something? I think everyone would be (rightfully so) on the side of the consumer if that was the case.

Or, imagine it was a private sale between 2 individuals with a written and signed contract identical to the one we have, and it was posted. People would VERY QUICKLY point out the contract, and move on. I'm simply saying that Signature Solar simply followed the agreed upon terms, then additionally refunded the 'pro-rated' shipping cost (which actually was not accurate - the shipping costs for 21 panels is identical as 22) but are still labeled the bad guys.

Most of the people who are still upset about this (other than the original poster) simply didn't read my previous posts explaining everything, or are doing some serious mental gymnastics to support their argument.

And to everyone who has PM'd me after this thread thanking me for my professional responses and thanking me for being here and explaining things - I really appreciate it. Sometimes on threads like these it seems like everyone wants a shot at me, but you guys make it worth sticking around! :giggle:
 
The worst part of these threads is coming in and having to explain the same thing over and over because people read the first post, and then angrily type in the comments that we should do exactly what we already did. It's almost comical.

and the best part of these "unhappy customer" threads is some of us will learn from other's mistakes and the state of the solar business.
I applaud your time and effort on this forum as customer support is at best difficult.
 
Drama is over.

Really never meant there to be any. I think people's Negativity Bias has made this thread popular....or maybe some other people wanted to vent their own frustrations and get it off their chest.

My main goal was to give a heads up to anyone else purchasing panels online on some of the hurdles you might run into.

Thank you to everyone for giving your 2 cents.

Thank you to @RichardfromEG4 for taking the time to reply here.
 
If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.
Within the past 2 months. Place a order from Amazon for one Renogy panel and when it comes see how its packaged, I have never had an issue. Hire someone who knows how to package and ship, with all the complaints your getting about shipping it will pay in the long run. BTW I shipped metal lathes and surface grinders as part of my business in the past, I always built a crate for shipping via truck.
 
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I have to chip in with some stats here because otherwise this is really taken out of context.
1) We see the most discussions on the forum because we are one of (if not the largest) and only wholesale solar company who's entire business is directed towards the DIY community and keeping our prices as low as humanly possible to help everyone get into solar, regardless of their budget.
2) Signature Solar is probably the only company, other than Dexter from Current Connected, who actually even makes an appearance on the forums. People know this, people see us on here, and there are likely multiple threads that only began because people know they will be heard. It's not all bad either. I get TONS of PMs from people thanking me for fixing issues or just being here in the first place.
3) We have hundreds of shipments that go out every day and arrive undamaged, with happy customers. We have dozens of tickets opened up where we make a repair or replacement (according to our terms of service) with NO issues because people read and understood the terms and 100% knew what was going to happen and what the outcome would be. It is completely unfair for every person on here to villainize Signature Solar for simply following the terms of service that both parties agreed to. Imagine if Signature Solar attempted to change the conditions of the purchase after the fact - and wanted to charge more to keep the warranty for the battery in place or something? I think everyone would be (rightfully so) on the side of the consumer if that was the case.

Or, imagine it was a private sale between 2 individuals with a written and signed contract identical to the one we have, and it was posted. People would VERY QUICKLY point out the contract, and move on. I'm simply saying that Signature Solar simply followed the agreed upon terms, then additionally refunded the 'pro-rated' shipping cost (which actually was not accurate - the shipping costs for 21 panels is identical as 22) but are still labeled the bad guys.

Most of the people who are still upset about this (other than the original poster) simply didn't read my previous posts explaining everything, or are doing some serious mental gymnastics to support their argument.

And to everyone who has PM'd me after this thread thanking me for my professional responses and thanking me for being here and explaining things - I really appreciate it. Sometimes on threads like these it seems like everyone wants a shot at me, but you guys make it worth sticking around! :giggle:
You're right. I have since edited my original post accordingly.
 
The response I received so far:

Hi There!

Thank you for your submission. This is a confirmation receipt of the submission-- it has been sent to our claims managers and will be processed immediately. PLEASE NOTE, shipping claims are provided by the shipping company used to deliver your order. These solutions are not handled within Signature Solar. We do everything within our power to ensure solutions are provided fairly and efficiently. Freight claims typically take TWO AND FOUR WEEKS.
 
Within the past 2 months. Place a order from Amazon for one Renogy panel and when it comes see how its packaged, I have never had an issue. Hire someone who knows how to package and ship, with all the complaints your getting about shipping it will pay in the long run. BTW I shipped metal lathes and surface grinders as part of my business in the past, I always built a crate for shipping via truck.
What was the cost of your panels per watt from Amazon, don't forget to factor in the prime membership...

Good points on shipping in crates. I deal with Wooden crates on everything from 150hp 3 phase electric motors to 200" x 14" od rolls weighing ~ 2 tons. Remember, It doesn't matter how well things are packed if the persons handling them don't care, are inexperienced, or deliberately destroy stuff.
Ever drive a forklift, I give lots of respect to experienced drivers.
The major issue is crates would add a fair chunk of change to the shipping costs, especially with the price of lumber today...
I'd pay for that piece of mind and have scrap lumber to repurpose ? others would see disposal a hassle.

Parsing this thread, I don't see SS at fault and feel they have done a great job explaining, sucks for the op but we all make mistakes the key is learning from them and not making them again.
The logistics industry is a cluster at the moment, I don't see it getting better any time soon.

There should be a way for replies defending a party to be stickied below the original post and/or the title to be updated. @RichardfromEG4 has done a great job explaining both sides and proving SS is not at fault.

For those that have picked up panels at the terminal, how would damages be handled?
 
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Here is exactly how we package all our panels - this method is tested and results in the LEAST amount of damage. Then, we go out of our way to mark it on all 4 sides, put a fragile cone on top, mark it fragile - glass, tell the shipping companies the NEED to use a LONG FORK only. Please - can anyone point out anything else we could do that would not exorbitantly increase shipping costs? I'd love to hear it.
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" ... anything else we could do that would not exorbitantly increase shipping costs? I'd love to hear it. ... ".

Maybe a thin sheet of plywood on the wide sides, or some other economical sheet goods that might offer a bit of protection?

The forks of a towmotor can often cut plastic strapping. Additionally, it's not uncommon for the forks to be off kilter (I've seen them curled like a cheese puff) causing the pallet of panels to lean ... not good if some of the strapping has been damaged. Use more than two straps to hold edge stacked panels upright and be sure to run them through, not under the pallet. Use wide metal banding?

Can you jumbo size the bright orange fragile stickers, like huge poster size?
 
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