SiO2 Silicon Dioxide Batteries
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Diysolar123
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if you want long shelf life and something you can basically ignore why not go with LTO?
Well, these are promoted as an off-the-shelf (dealership) drop-in replacement, requiring minimal to no change to existing architecture.
CONFIRMED MY SUSPICIONS (in a good way):
So I went to the source at Soneil Electronics, and found this pdf:
The ATB, or Advance Technology Battery in their own words, is a "New Generation AGM Battery"
So instead of gel or an absorbed glass matt, they use a powdered electrolyte. And a proprietary separator. Ok - fine.
OK, finally!!! Just trying to get through various home-grown dealership marketing brochures and online Q&A to get down to it is a real chore. And even here, with graphs comparing against lead-acid and even NICAD - give me a break. Stuck in the 70's much?
Between home-grown marketing and online Q/A questions, it is much as I surmised and I think tackles real-world issues when compared to normal conventional AGM's:
1) Can recover from accidental catastrophic discharge to 0 volts. Yep, that happens.
2) The powdered electrolyte helps it to become sulfation resistant. Helps tackle under-charge capacity walkdown, especially for solar users. And of course utility vehicles that need rapid turnaround and may not have enough time for a truly full charge.
3) This sulfation resistance lengthens shelf-life, particularly important during shipping, transportation, and dealership shelf time delays before reaching the end user. Ie, you don't start out totally sulfated already. Hopefully dealerships will hold true, and return or recycle old stock. I'd like to see a burned-in manufacturing date on the case if there isn't one already.
4) Q&A online reveals that despite being able to be discharged down to 0 volts and recover (assuming it isn't left that way forever), one should not discharge beyond 80% DOD, as that severely affects cycle life. Even less is better. OK, pretty much sop for any vrla.
5) In accordance with the above, it is not entirely clear that the rated capacity is based upon discharge to 0 volts, or if it is rated to an 80% DOD value. Thus a rated 100ah may for all practical purposes be an 80ah. So I am not totally sure if one should de-rate the stated capacity by 20% or not. I do not know. But their rated cycle life is based on no more than 80% DOD, not discharge to zero.
THIS is what I think they should be concentrating on - being a better conventional AGM for most folks and situations where under-charge and casual usage is present. Looks like you will get more from these, than from a standard conventional agm which is not treated properly. Resilient to the neglect or unskilled use that normal agm's are subject to.
But much of the marketing is concentrating on pointing out the faults of other chemistries, rather than heavily promoting these real-world benefits over conventional agm. And of course this SIO2 battery is in itself a variation of the lead-acid, but I digress ...
The problem is as usual like when I first encountered LFP, upfront cost is an issue. If all one is going to go by is by touting cycle-life vs upfront cost, well not sure how much being a "new generation of agm battery" is going to convince people to switch from the lower-cost conventionals - and of course the appearance of LFP which doesn't sulfate at all!
Tough market. Trying to fend off two fronts of old-school tech, vs modern LFP must be hard. I'm not a business major, but my inclination would be to make SI02 more readily available for instant-gratification online purchase (pair of socks and a battery in your cart outlets) at lower prices to attract attention. Otherwise, it was like me buying LFP only from EV vendors back in the day where only the hardcore nerds shopped.
CONFIRMED MY SUSPICIONS (in a good way):
So I went to the source at Soneil Electronics, and found this pdf:
The ATB, or Advance Technology Battery in their own words, is a "New Generation AGM Battery"
So instead of gel or an absorbed glass matt, they use a powdered electrolyte. And a proprietary separator. Ok - fine.
OK, finally!!! Just trying to get through various home-grown dealership marketing brochures and online Q&A to get down to it is a real chore. And even here, with graphs comparing against lead-acid and even NICAD - give me a break. Stuck in the 70's much?
Between home-grown marketing and online Q/A questions, it is much as I surmised and I think tackles real-world issues when compared to normal conventional AGM's:
1) Can recover from accidental catastrophic discharge to 0 volts. Yep, that happens.
2) The powdered electrolyte helps it to become sulfation resistant. Helps tackle under-charge capacity walkdown, especially for solar users. And of course utility vehicles that need rapid turnaround and may not have enough time for a truly full charge.
3) This sulfation resistance lengthens shelf-life, particularly important during shipping, transportation, and dealership shelf time delays before reaching the end user. Ie, you don't start out totally sulfated already. Hopefully dealerships will hold true, and return or recycle old stock. I'd like to see a burned-in manufacturing date on the case if there isn't one already.
4) Q&A online reveals that despite being able to be discharged down to 0 volts and recover (assuming it isn't left that way forever), one should not discharge beyond 80% DOD, as that severely affects cycle life. Even less is better. OK, pretty much sop for any vrla.
5) In accordance with the above, it is not entirely clear that the rated capacity is based upon discharge to 0 volts, or if it is rated to an 80% DOD value. Thus a rated 100ah may for all practical purposes be an 80ah. So I am not totally sure if one should de-rate the stated capacity by 20% or not. I do not know. But their rated cycle life is based on no more than 80% DOD, not discharge to zero.
THIS is what I think they should be concentrating on - being a better conventional AGM for most folks and situations where under-charge and casual usage is present. Looks like you will get more from these, than from a standard conventional agm which is not treated properly. Resilient to the neglect or unskilled use that normal agm's are subject to.
But much of the marketing is concentrating on pointing out the faults of other chemistries, rather than heavily promoting these real-world benefits over conventional agm. And of course this SIO2 battery is in itself a variation of the lead-acid, but I digress ...
The problem is as usual like when I first encountered LFP, upfront cost is an issue. If all one is going to go by is by touting cycle-life vs upfront cost, well not sure how much being a "new generation of agm battery" is going to convince people to switch from the lower-cost conventionals - and of course the appearance of LFP which doesn't sulfate at all!
Tough market. Trying to fend off two fronts of old-school tech, vs modern LFP must be hard. I'm not a business major, but my inclination would be to make SI02 more readily available for instant-gratification online purchase (pair of socks and a battery in your cart outlets) at lower prices to attract attention. Otherwise, it was like me buying LFP only from EV vendors back in the day where only the hardcore nerds shopped.
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Diysolar123
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its a bit worse than that regarding next gen batteries having to compete against other technologies.
Hydrogen fuel cells have finally got to the "real" commercially viable level!! they have started to deploy big 18wheeler trucks with fuel cells, they have an 800mile range per fill.
while hydrogen has been around for ages there has not been the infrastructure support. Now they are deploying hundreds of hydrogen stations. The next step is also to have the infrastructure to produce "green hydrogen"; much of todays hydrogen is actually produced from..yep.. you guessed it, fossil fuels hehe
Several new technologies are coming online to produce hydrogen from water efficiently.
Hydrogen fuel cells have finally got to the "real" commercially viable level!! they have started to deploy big 18wheeler trucks with fuel cells, they have an 800mile range per fill.
while hydrogen has been around for ages there has not been the infrastructure support. Now they are deploying hundreds of hydrogen stations. The next step is also to have the infrastructure to produce "green hydrogen"; much of todays hydrogen is actually produced from..yep.. you guessed it, fossil fuels hehe
Several new technologies are coming online to produce hydrogen from water efficiently.
That's always the thing - what is technologically an advance in comparison to real-world practicality.
I remember when the "Zebra" Sodium Nickel Chloride battery was a hot item.
In my mind the SiO2's practical advantages over a standard conventional agm are quite inviting for those not wanting to be wedded to proper conventional agm maintenance, and gives some real "headroom" for non-perfection in storage or charge and getting more out of them in the long run.
I'll give them some first hand experience when I can put a small test version in my cart along with a pair of socks.
I remember when the "Zebra" Sodium Nickel Chloride battery was a hot item.
In my mind the SiO2's practical advantages over a standard conventional agm are quite inviting for those not wanting to be wedded to proper conventional agm maintenance, and gives some real "headroom" for non-perfection in storage or charge and getting more out of them in the long run.
I'll give them some first hand experience when I can put a small test version in my cart along with a pair of socks.
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