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SMA sunny island settings for signature solar EG4ll batteries

Hi,
I recently replaced my old lead acid batteries with new signature solar eg4ll batteries.

System specs
Two Sunny boys AC coupled with Two Sunny islands
10,000W PV running two the sunny boys
1 outback flexmax80 with 3000W PV
12 (48V) signature Solar EG4ll LFP Batteries (60KW)(1200AHr)
Propane backup geni

I went through the new battery set up on the SI and set to VLRA as suggested by tech support sense the BMS on the EG4's is not compatible with the the SI's.
set as
48 V
VLRA
1200AHr

System started up fine but the SOC on the SI has been significantly lower than what the EG4 read. Example; the SI read 1% and the EG4's read 78% at 53.3V. So this is my first problem I am not able to use the whole capacity of the batteries. The second problem is during charging the EG4's go into Over voltage protection around 54V. The specs for the BMS say that OV protection occurs at 60V so maybe I just haven't been there to observe it. I've lowered all of the charging values to 2.3V. Once the EG4's go into OV the SI will start to give a F201 Malfunction VBATMAX, this happens 3 times with the system turning off for about 30 seconds and coming back on until I get a F710 Failure autostrcnt which puts it in standby.

Can anyone recommend different settings? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've talked to SMA tech support but there not much help, they just tell me that the EG4's are not a supported battery...
I am assuming you have the EG4 V2s. If so there is a CAN protocol SMA you can select for close loop. This has been tested and works. If you have the lifepower batteries you will need the comms hub for the SMA protocol
 
Unless you want old firmware. So you can use Sunny Island Charger or Midnight Classic and have them talk to SI.
Yeah, have/had no plans to go with DC coupling and the SI might need to be in Lithium mode for the REC to communicate (??? not sure). IMHO DC coupling defeats the reason for going with SMA to start with. Might as well go with Outback, Victron, etc. Schneider can AC couple too, but the best choice here was Sunny Boy.
Haven't seen your inside pictures before, only the inverters.
Are those 100 Ah or 280 Ah batteries?
230 AH Calb cells, EV grade from Current Connected. One thing to note here is that I don't think that a REC with M/S setup can use different sized AH cells in various batteries. There's only one setting for AH size (that I have found). I could be wrong, but one might want to pick their AH size well ahead of time if one wants to expand. I could probably use 230 AH Eve cells for additional batteries, but not 280 or 310, etc.
I suppose REC master requests reduced voltage and/or current to avoid runner cells in all batteries, slowing down charging so the worst balanced can equalize?
From what I understand this is what it does. And controls the contactors in each of the batteries (it's kind of impressive when they all click on at once when turning on the system).
Conduit - are we supposed to have plastic bushings on all? Or some rounded enough they're not a problem, and only reamed pipe is sharp enough to be an issue? Often I have romex clamps which I don't worry about; that has jacket. But I also pull wires through conduit. And large gauge is more difficult to bend as desired so would bear on those edges.
No idea. My electrician (this was kind of a collaborative effort between us) is a former US Army electrician (then reclassed to Infantry and was a Ranger Battalion bubba), then ran his own industrial electrical service, then owned an electrical supply house, then was a power plant administrator, now does some electrical work and excavation in his retirement. I said to conform to NEC as much as possible/made sense. The wiring is Ancor brand and has a super thick jacket (those Klein 4 in 1 cable strippers will not work, jacket is too thick). The combiner box is join to the battery cabinet using "asshole" connectors so it's basically attached. I have no inspectors and no duty to conform to NEC (I wouldn't want to argue this in civil court though).

Offgrid, keep your eye open for new old stock. There are both transformer type and transformerless with wattage spanning range above/below 7.7kW. Some are less flexible on MPPT range (I think the higher wattage ones didn't support lower voltage?)

I suspect prices are going to rise - especially with these new rounds of trailer sales. There's no real replacement for these unlike the older Sunny Boys.

I would think you might consider 3-phase and multi-cluster if off-grid and building new systems. Although Multi-cluster box costs a lot, and single cluster is only 18kW.

I thought about it. Even ran 3 phase wire between buildings. I need the extra capacity of the 4x SI for what there. The thing that keeps from installing the Multi-Cluster box is 1) figuring out the system. 2) space in the existing shed (12x12 with one side being a garage door but that could be framed up), and 3) most importantly, lightning. I think I'd rather have multiple discrete systems so you at least have something functional in the event of a direct strike. Ameren isn't going to come to fix it.

Otherwise, there are used ones out there. Most recently I saw a 7.7kW -40 model on eBay. Now there is a -41 model "open box"

I think I'd better start buying ASAP. I was going to go with more panels elsewhere with locally located panels and SBs (i.e. on a future carport near my shop with the SB located in the shop).

My next system may not be SMA though. Which sucks as I was hoping to keep one type of system for spares.
 
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The new in the box SI 6048-US I got due to DC Solar have a lithium BMS mode, and are dated a few years ago.
It was a 5048-US I set up with Sunny Island Charger.
Guess I need to try with the 6048, see if BMS and SIC both work.

I thought it was an even later revision firmware which broke Midnight's protocol conversion board. I've bought one of those and a Classic but not connected yet.

I thought there could be some benefit to a bit of DC coupling. I'd rather never have to do emergency charge. I do use load-shed to avoid that, but you never know when something might go wrong, so backup approach could be good.

You don't have any particular need for SB -40 or -41 vs. older models, do you?
My preference is older, where I can select negative or positive grounded PV array, to ensure no degradation from PID.
But I'm acquiring latest model for new NEM agreement.

More trailer sales, meaning DC solar trailers with SI? You figure that increases demand for SB? I would think a drop in the bucket compared to grid tied SB installs, but certainly more demand for used/liquidation Sunny Boys.
 
Another thing to consider with using old vs new Sunny Boys…is I am not sure if the old ones have Ethernet ports? I am assuming that I can see SBs over and through a VLAN network. I haven’t tried it as of yet. I know the newer ones are controlled completely off of frequency shift, but I would like all of that data to feed into the SMA Data Manager (I have the full version, not the M) and possibly to Home Assistant or Solar Assistant. I haven’t installed the Data Manager as of yet, so I don’t really know how it works.
 
The new in the box SI 6048-US I got due to DC Solar have a lithium BMS mode, and are dated a few years ago.
It was a 5048-US I set up with Sunny Island Charger.
Guess I need to try with the 6048, see if BMS and SIC both work.

I thought it was an even later revision firmware which broke Midnight's protocol conversion board. I've bought one of those and a Classic but not connected yet.

I thought there could be some benefit to a bit of DC coupling. I'd rather never have to do emergency charge. I do use load-shed to avoid that, but you never know when something might go wrong, so backup approach could be good.

You don't have any particular need for SB -40 or -41 vs. older models, do you?
My preference is older, where I can select negative or positive grounded PV array, to ensure no degradation from PID.
But I'm acquiring latest model for new NEM agreement.

More trailer sales, meaning DC solar trailers with SI? You figure that increases demand for SB? I would think a drop in the bucket compared to grid tied SB installs, but certainly more demand for used/liquidation Sunny Boys.
No particular need? No, othan the afore mentioned communication capability. I was going to keep the 7.7 size as a standard though and design any expansion around that in order to reduce the SKU counts of any backups.
 
SB 5000US has optional RS-485 piggyback and switches UL-1741 to island based on signal. Don't think it supports Speedwire.
SB 10000TL-US-12 accepts RS-485 and Speedwire piggybacks. Over RS-485 I couldn't talk to it from Sunny Boy Control. With Speedwire I configured it by Sunny Explorer.

SMA has some gateway that should get data from RS-485 linked inverters and transfer to Speedwire. I haven't tried that.

Sunny TriPower, I have RS-485 and Speedwire modules. I think I saw serial number but couldn't read or configure with RS-485 and Sunny WebBox so I used Speedwire and Sunny Explorer. But SMA support said they do use Sunny WebBox to communicate with it.

Sunny Island, I couldn't reach from Sunny Boy Control, but Sunny WebBox did. (RS-485.)

Data sheet for Data Manager M shows SMA Comm Gateway accessing RS-485 equipment.
Also, RS-485 from Data Manager M accessing them, without Gateway.


I assume you have your -40 or -41 inverters in Island, not Rule-21 mode?

Monitoring may vary, and some inverters might clip wattage, but functionality is mostly interchangeable. Minimum MPPT will impact some. Other models, seems like it might limit maximum power but not operation.
 
Looks like $2699 for the 11.4 if this is correct:
Which is isn't too bad. Figures, I panic bought 7x more SB 7.7s but at least I can quit for a while (I was looking for more lol). At least we know (or think we know) that SMA hasn't shit the bed on pricing.
 
Ahh, much better!
Compared to SB 7.7 -41, which I think had $2500 MSRP and $1800 or so street price, $2700 for 11.4 kW is quite decent.

I did my NEM 2.0 reservation for 2x 7.7 = 15.4 kW.
Maybe I should install 1x SB SE 11.4 and 1x SB 3.8
I already have a SB 7.0, don't know if PG&E will accept set for 4 kW or with only enough panels for that.
I would like to use a Smart Energy for time shifting and possible lithium storage in addition to AGM on SI (if it plays nice).

This thing really should work with ABU for split-phase backup. SMA's documentation doesn't mention backup but reseller links do.
It would be good for my sister's GT PV install with battery added later.
 
I've just completed an install with 2 SMA Sunny Island 6048's split phase using EG4-LL V2 batteries, using their closed loop option. It works. Mostly. Something weird is going on where the backup generator starts randomly. The inverters start and stop the generator based on SOC exclusively. So maybe this is a similar issue that SOK was having. So far I can't get support from Signature solar or EG4. I talked with SMA, they said it's the unsupported battery manufacturers issue and talk to them. A total cop out if you ask me. There's a lot missing from EG4 documentation. I also spoke to another SMA sales representative. No plans of discontinuing SI, but the Sunny boys are gone, which really sucks. I'll be doing a bit of reverse engineering if I get no answers from EG4. I plan to sniff the CAN bus and do some data logging. Will let everyone know if.i come up with a solution, because I service and maintain numerous SI inverters and would love a solid option.
Thats awesome, your the first person I've heard getting closed loop to work with Eg4ll and SMA. mind telling me how you did it?
 
I am assuming you have the EG4 V2s. If so there is a CAN protocol SMA you can select for close loop. This has been tested and works. If you have the lifepower batteries you will need the comms hub for the SMA protocol
I have EG4ll 48V V1's... Is there any way to get the V1's to work closed loop?
 
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