SMA VS AIMS

[Deleted member 1888]

Magnum PAE also does 240V with 1 inverter. Don't get me wrong, the Schneider XW Pro is a fantastic product, but so is the Magnum. The XW Pro will definitely do everything you want and more.

Well I guess what it come down to is witch one will be the most reliable to me on my off grid set up? Looking at the info it looks like the XW Pro wins in everything from output to surge and even temp. However maybe the Mag last longer? What can you tell me about the Mag PAE why is it so good?

 

[Deleted member 1888]

Not at all. Work for on grid/backup or off grid. Any of the battery inverters is going to work off-grid.
I'm just saying that they may have made 10 year warranty standard because it is required for some markets.

My original Sunny Boys had 5 year warranty.
Sunny Island now has 10 year warranty standard. Mine had come with the 10 year option offered earlier.
New Sunny Boys have 10 year standard, 15 year and 20 year optional.

Can any of the SMA do 240 with 1 inverter? If so how do I buy them because so far I only see them on ebay.

 

[Hedges]

Im just looking at the continuous power and 30 min suge and the XW Pro smokes the Mag.

What probably matters more is 60 seconds 12 kW. vs. 5 seconds 8500 W.
That could be the difference to start a 2 HP well pump.

 

[Hedges]

Can any of the SMA do 240 with 1 inverter? If so how do I buy them because so far I only see them on ebay.

The SMA battery inverters are all single phase, so need a transformer to make 120/240V split phase. (Probably because they are designed for the European 220V single phase market)

Here's the transformer with transfer switch SMA used to offer to do whole house backup with a single Sunny Island:

SMA Sunny Island Smartformer | Sunny Island Smartformer Features

SMA Sunny Island Smartformer is a complete solution for off-grid & battery back-up systems up to 8 kW. It acts as AC distribution & 120 V/240 V autoformer simultaneously.

www.solarelectricsupply.com

Since you're off-grid, all you need is an appropriate sized transformer. I scrounged up a 9000VA transformer with two, 120V windings. It all depends on what you can find cheap. But with the recent low prices of Sunny Island, I think it is better to install two for split-phase. Get a transformer later when you find a cheap one. If one inverter goes down, then you can run on the other one.

SMA's other offering is "Sunny Boy Storage", a 240V inverter that uses lithium batteries (must have compatible BMS). No DC charge controller coupling, only AC coupling of grid-tie inverters. It is basically a Power Wall. No 120V, just 240V. They sell as separate transformer and transfer switch for it. Limitation is it is 6kW continuous, 9.3kW surge for 0.1 seconds. Just long enough to start a motor if you're lucky. And you can only use one, can't parallel two.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SBSXX-US-DS-en-20.pdf?_ga=2.217518485.263434434.1601944785-621369231.1589916091

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SBSABU-DUS185117.pdf?_ga=2.23026360.263434434.1601944785-621369231.1589916091

I originally was going to use one, $5000 Sunny Island for backup when the grid fails. But due to DC solar auction and prices getting so low, I bought a pallet full and put in four, 2S2P.

They are available from retails stores, typically between $3000 and $5000. It is on eBay and Craigslist that all the independent sellers are discounting the hundreds of these they bought at auction.

 

[SolarQueen]

Can any of the SMA do 240 with 1 inverter? If so how do I buy them because so far I only see them on ebay.

My store carries them, https://www.altestore.com/store/inverters/hybrid-inverters/sma-sunny-island-6048-us-inverter-p10458/

And yes, as @Hedges said, you can use a transformer for your 240V loads.

 

[Hedges]

Here's an eBay posting for two Sunny Island and a Midnight charge controller, in enclosure with breakers:

2x SMA Sunny Island Inverters, Charge Controller, Load Centers pre-installed | eBay

Complete inverter system pre-wired, ready to install. You will not find a system easier to install. It is as simple as plugging a solar array into the existing plugs, a battery bank into the existing Anderson connector, an AC power source (grid/generator) into the twist lock connector and...

www.ebay.com

Looks like it came from a DC Solar trailer. Forklift batteries and PV panels not included.

What I haven't looked into is whether Midnight Classic can be programmed for the Lithium batteries you are using. If so, this could be a pre-wired bundle for you.

 

[SolarQueen]

What I haven't looked into is whether Midnight Classic can be programmed for the Lithium batteries you are using. If so, this could be a pre-wired bundle for you.

Absorb, Equalize, and Float voltages are fully adjustable on the Classic.

 

[GXMnow]

I have had my Schneider XW-Pro up and running for over a month now. While I am having issue with trying to make it do "Time of Use" power shifting in an AC coupled on grid setup, I do have to say that for an Off Grid or backup power system, it is a rock solid beast. I have not even come close to pushing it's limits. I loaded it to about 4,100 watts, puling about 80 amps from my battery bank and it was running dead cold and producing a very clean sine wave. The only complaint I have about it as an inverter is it does produce a high pitched noise on top of the expected 60/120 hz hum. I have also pushed it to over 50 amps charging and measured over 95% efficiency based on the measure watts in and watts out. If I was using DC coupled charging, I would have no complaints about the system operation. Their AC coupling works great for a backup system, but the "Time of Use" is broken in software. This will have no effect in an off grid system. The build quality, and the over built design feels like something that will last many years. Nothing like the thin cheap feeling metal on the Chinese mass imported stuff. The XW is actually quite compact, at just 16 inches wide, 23 inches high and 9 inches deep, but it weighs 122 pounds. And a good chunk of that weight is the huge toroid transformer that produces the isolated 120/240 split phase power from the 48 volt DC switching block. This 6,800 watt inverter looks to have a larger transformer core than the Aims 12,000 watt device. We did get it up on the wall plate with 2 people, but we should have had a third.

I am annoyed at Schneider still, about my AC coupling ToU issue, but I can't deny their hardware is well worth their selling price. I managed to catch a discount through Real Good, which is Alt E Store's California location. And they even had a free shipping deal when I ordered mine, which is huge when the pallet came in at over 180 pounds with the gateway and conduit box thrown into the mix. They had to use a lift gate truck to drop it off. And even now without the discount I got, it actually is listed for less than the Aims 12,000 watt. Yes it is "rated" for less than the AIMS, but I bet running them both at 6,000 watts, the Schneider will last longer.

Magnum, Outback, SMA, Victron, and others also make very high quality gear, but this is the one I own and have experience with. If I had more battery, it could run my whole house. Maybe not all the gear in my shop at the same time though.

 

[Pyrofx]

I'll second the sma.
Hedge talked me into it. Now I have2 6048 islands and 2, 7.0 sunny boys.13k of panels , and 14kwh of the total of 62kwh of 280 litium.
It's a good start?

 

[Hedges]

I'll second the sma.
Hedge talked me into it. Now I have2 6048 islands and 2, 7.0 sunny boys.13k of panels , and 14kwh of the total of 62kwh of 280 litium.
It's a good start?

Now you can over-panel the Sunny Boys (consider adjusting their limit down to 6.7 kW if necessary for on-grid use to stay below 56A relay limit, unless voltage is a bit high so current is low.) You should be able to to go 50% or more over, with two strings of different orientations and flatter curve though out the day.

Glad you're happy with them!

I picked up a pallet of new older model 5000US inverters, the transformer type. I expect them to understand the RS-485 commands which TL10000US did not. And, to be unperturbed by bad power factor from VFD on my pool pump. I've figured out how to fit my higher wattage panels and parallel strings after I re-orient some arrays to catch morning sun instead of the afternoon shade they've been getting. It will be about 7800W (STC) per inverter.

 

[Deleted member 1888]

I have had my Schneider XW-Pro up and running for over a month now. While I am having issue with trying to make it do "Time of Use" power shifting in an AC coupled on grid setup, I do have to say that for an Off Grid or backup power system, it is a rock solid beast. I have not even come close to pushing it's limits. I loaded it to about 4,100 watts, puling about 80 amps from my battery bank and it was running dead cold and producing a very clean sine wave. The only complaint I have about it as an inverter is it does produce a high pitched noise on top of the expected 60/120 hz hum. I have also pushed it to over 50 amps charging and measured over 95% efficiency based on the measure watts in and watts out. If I was using DC coupled charging, I would have no complaints about the system operation. Their AC coupling works great for a backup system, but the "Time of Use" is broken in software. This will have no effect in an off grid system. The build quality, and the over built design feels like something that will last many years. Nothing like the thin cheap feeling metal on the Chinese mass imported stuff. The XW is actually quite compact, at just 16 inches wide, 23 inches high and 9 inches deep, but it weighs 122 pounds. And a good chunk of that weight is the huge toroid transformer that produces the isolated 120/240 split phase power from the 48 volt DC switching block. This 6,800 watt inverter looks to have a larger transformer core than the Aims 12,000 watt device. We did get it up on the wall plate with 2 people, but we should have had a third.

I am annoyed at Schneider still, about my AC coupling ToU issue, but I can't deny their hardware is well worth their selling price. I managed to catch a discount through Real Good, which is Alt E Store's California location. And they even had a free shipping deal when I ordered mine, which is huge when the pallet came in at over 180 pounds with the gateway and conduit box thrown into the mix. They had to use a lift gate truck to drop it off. And even now without the discount I got, it actually is listed for less than the Aims 12,000 watt. Yes it is "rated" for less than the AIMS, but I bet running them both at 6,000 watts, the Schneider will last longer.

Magnum, Outback, SMA, Victron, and others also make very high quality gear, but this is the one I own and have experience with. If I had more battery, it could run my whole house. Maybe not all the gear in my shop at the same time though.

Me and the wife have decided we will be getting the Schneider XW-Pro, we will start with 1 and see if we need a 2nd. What we love the most about it is the 30min 8.5kw(25%boost) and the 1min 12kw(almost 100% boost) surges. No other inverter we have found can push numbers like that, most can only get 10% or less boost.

 

[Hedges]

Does XW-Pro support charging (lithium) batteries from generator?
If so, that should help with days of darkness or small/low batteries at night.
The RV can plug in to your PV system, and the inverter can plug in to the RV's generator and start it when required.

 

[GXMnow]

I have not actually tested it yet from my generator, but according to the XW-Pro manual, it will be able to use full charge current from a generator as well. Mine is a very old Coleman 5000 watt, so I should be able to get 80 amps of charge current into my battery bank. My only concern is the frequency does shift around quite a bit as it is directly tied to the rotation speed, and the governor is a little slow and overshoots a little. So the frequency might bounce from 55 to 65 Hz. The more load it is under, the more stable it get's. It runs my welder just fine. Obviously mine is not auto start. To be safe, I need to switch off the solar breaker before starting the generator. I may add a relay to do that automatically, but since I have to plug in a cable and start it, I am not too worried about one more step. And it likely would not hurt anything until the sun started to produce more power than the house is using. And even then, my OLD generator would probably just act like a motor if it got back fed and just let the engine free wheel at 3600 rpm.

 

[Hedges]

"I need to switch off the solar breaker before starting the generator"
Does that refer to AC coupled EnPhase?

Psychotic would have DC coupled charge controllers from PV panels. Does XW generate AC with its inverter, synchronized to its AC input, so generator (or grid) will only be loaded up to specified current draw and additional power from battery is used for heavy loads? And then when AC loads are light, battery is recharged?

Some inverters (e.g. Sunny Island) can be told to limit current from grid/generator, for instance 15A instead of default 56A max. It generates additional amps AC coming from battery to supply heavier loads. It can be told to let AC coupled grid-tie inverters backfeed the grid, or zero backfeed (especially when generator used; it's only control is to either suck down the power into batteries, or disconnect from grid/generator).

 

[GXMnow]

"I need to switch off the solar breaker before starting the generator"
Does that refer to AC coupled EnPhase?

Psychotic would have DC coupled charge controllers from PV panels. Does XW generate AC with its inverter, synchronized to its AC input, so generator (or grid) will only be loaded up to specified current draw and additional power from battery is used for heavy loads? And then when AC loads are light, battery is recharged?

Some inverters (e.g. Sunny Island) can be told to limit current from grid/generator, for instance 15A instead of default 56A max. It generates additional amps AC coming from battery to supply heavier loads. It can be told to let AC coupled grid-tie inverters backfeed the grid, or zero backfeed (especially when generator used; it's only control is to either suck down the power into batteries, or disconnect from grid/generator).

Yes, in my case, I should switch off the Enphase micros while running the generator. This is not a concern at all with DC coupled solar. It is only a potential problem if a grid tie inverter might try to back feed into the generator. Many generators will not tolerate current back feed. But the generator should only be running when the battery has depleted and there is no sun to charge from, so no back feed current anyways.

YES. The Schneider XW-Pro will sync with either the grid or a generator and can "Load Shave" by adding current to reduce the demand on the generator or grid input to supply heavy loads. You could connect it to a 10 amp generator, and still be able to start a large load with the XW supplying the needed current beyond the 10 amps. You actually tell it how many amps the generator can supply, and it just adds the extra current needed to keep the input current below that level. It has separate entries for the Grid AC1 input and the Generator AC2 input. This could also be another inverter, a large and small generator, etc. It monitors both inputs and will select the one with stable qualified power. And if both are live you can also select either to be the preferred source.

If loads are light, it would depend on the settings on how it would direct the power. I have not tested any of this yet, so I can't say for sure how autonomous it will be but with DC solar and an auto start generator, I am fairly confident in saying it will have no problem backing off the inverter and accepting DC charge under light loads. In my AC coupled situation, it actually worked very well off grid. During my short test, it used solar to charge the battery. When I increased the load the charge rate dropped so the loads were being run by the solar still. When the load exceeded solar, it started adding battery power, all seamlessly. In DC coupled, this would be quite different. The XW would always be inverting battery power to run the loads. The inverter must be able to source all of the current. If the solar current exceeds what the inverter is taking, then the battery charges. If the solar is less than the inverter needs, the battery discharges. It is simple and works with the same basic end result. The only big difference is if you have very heavy loads, the AC coupled setup can use the battery inverter power and add the power from the grid tie AC coupled solar inverters, so the maximum power is greater when the sun is shining.

While on grid, the XW-pro is not as seamless. In DC coupled with a Schneider Xanbus charge controller, it should all still work great, but with my AC coupling, I am running into some issues making it charge after a partial discharge. This is no concern at all in a DC coupled setup or even in AC coupled when off grid. I have a case open with Schneider to try and figure out how to work around the issue.