Small Inverter question: Building an emergency backup system that incudes a small 500 - 600W Inverter

[Destination: Moon]

Hi,

I thought I had my backup systetm pretty much in place. A few solar panels, Charge Controler, modest Power Station, LiFePO4 battery and a 600W Inverter.
That is until I tried to use the Inverter that I bought 2 years ago. Its a high Frequency design. I would mention the name but not sure about the correctness of doing so around here.

Anyway, I used it to drive my old plasma TV last week. It draws about 225 watts but ranges all over depending on screen brightness. Anywhere from 150 to 325 watts. It worked fine but I realized that the fan never came on. This seemed wrong as other inverters I used always cycled the fan under load. I connected a 500w heater and still no fan. It faulted after about 5 minutes.

So, I bought a Victron 500w Pheonix thinking its the best inverter out there. perfect for emergencies. But it will not drive the Plasma screen?? Never turns on. Just some clicking relays. I am really surprised and wondering what to do? Its not like I am planning to power this hog of a TV with limited power in an emergency. But - I do want an inverter that has as much flexibilty as possible for whatever use case may arise. I'm still a little shocked the Victron will not drive it - given their reputation,

Any Ideas what is going on would be much appreciated? Do I need a Hi Frequency Inverter vs the Victron? If so, I dont see a leading brand name in small Hi Frequency Inverters like Victron and Outback seem to occupy for LF. What are the repected brands for small <1000W PSW HF Inverters??

Thanks!!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Hi,

I thought I had my backup systetm pretty much in place. A few solar panels, Charge Controler, modest Power Station, LiFePO4 battery and a 600W Inverter.
That is until I tried to use the Inverter that I bought 2 years ago. Its a high Frequency design. I would mention the name but not sure about the correctness of doing so around here.

Unfounded bashing is frowned upon, but mentioning a brand isn't an issue.

Anyway, I used it to drive my old plasma TV last week. It draws about 225 watts but ranges all over depending on screen brightness. Anywhere from 150 to 325 watts. It worked fine but I realized that the fan never came on. This seemed wrong as other inverters I used always cycled the fan under load. I connected a 500w heater and still no fan. It faulted after about 5 minutes.

So, I bought a Victron 500w Pheonix thinking its the best inverter out there. perfect for emergencies. But it will not drive the Plasma screen?? Never turns on. Just some clicking relays. I am really surprised and wondering what to do? Its not like I am planning to power this hog of a TV with limited power in an emergency. But - I do want an inverter that has as much flexibilty as possible for whatever use case may arise. I'm still a little shocked the Victron will not drive it - given their reputation,

Does it run the 500W heater?

Any Ideas what is going on would be much appreciated? Do I need a Hi Frequency Inverter vs the Victron? If so, I dont see a leading brand name in small Hi Frequency Inverters like Victron and Outback seem to occupy for LF. What are the repected brands for small <1000W PSW HF Inverters??

It is exceedingly rare that HF inverters do better than LF inverters for any given application.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Victron 500w Phoenix do not do 500watts.
Read the Manuel.
I think it just do 400watts .
Its a stupid rating from Victron.

So it can be that your plasma screen use a high watts to turn on.
And that the victron go in protect mode.
It can be that you have set the victron in eco mode
That mode is not good for tv so you have to set it always on mode.

Than see your cable if that is the correct mm2 or awg .

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Victron 500w Phoenix do not do 500watts.
Read the Manuel.
I think it just do 400watts .
Its a stupid rating from Victron.

So it can be that your plasma screen use a high watts to turn on.
And that the victron go in protect mode.
It can be that you have set the victron in eco mode
That mode is not good for tv so you have to set it always on mode.

Than see your cable if that is the correct mm2 or awg .

Post in thread 'Is the Victron Multiplus 12/2000 worth the extra bucks?'

Oct 6, 2023

People... I'm going to say it again. Cut the shit about VA vs. Watts. Victron is the ONLY one that is honest about it. Go look in the data sheet for a Magnum or Outback, and guess what. Yep! You will see they're actually rated in VA even though they say Watts on marketing material. All inverter ratings are based on a power factor of 1.0, i.e., VA.

Victron also has notably high tolerance to overload. 30% overload for 30 minutes, but that may reduce based on inverter temperature.



Max power is 2X max continuous power.

• sunshine_eggo

• 
• 

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Post in thread 'Is the Victron Multiplus 12/2000 worth the extra bucks?'

Oct 6, 2023

People... I'm going to say it again. Cut the shit about VA vs. Watts. Victron is the ONLY one that is honest about it. Go look in the data sheet for a Magnum or Outback, and guess what. Yep! You will see they're actually rated in VA even though they say Watts on marketing material. All inverter ratings are based on a power factor of 1.0, i.e., VA.

Victron also has notably high tolerance to overload. 30% overload for 30 minutes, but that may reduce based on inverter temperature.



Max power is 2X max continuous power.

• sunshine_eggo

• 
• 

Here is the really info .

See attack files
400watts on 25 celcius.
350watt by 40 celcius.

Victron 12/ 500ve model .

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Here is the really info .

See attack files
400watts on 25 celcius.
350watt by 40 celcius.

Victron 12/ 500ve model .

Do you understand anything I just posted or power factor?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Do you understand anything I just posted or power factor?

I do not care

The topic starter thinks he have 500Watt inverter
He do not have it even if tell on the inverter it self

The Manuel is clear
By temp of 25 celcius that unit do 400watts .
By temp that is above 40 celcius that unit do about 350watts.
How higher the temp go how lower the output will be.
And yes Victron can handel more if the temp stay cool for longer time.

What he have to look at is his tv what do the tv need to start up .
If that tv plasma use 350 watts max but have to charge the Magnet up (yes that is how that tv works)
That can be on that moment have jump to 1000watt easy .
And that can not handel that small inverter.

A plasme tv inside works with 100volts and use
capacitor to do it.
And that can have a high amp draw on the inverter that shutdown by Charging the capacitor.
It can even be that his battery bms shutdown on that moment.

The true is that a true pure sinus inverter use more amps than a blok inverter .
Reason is how its beult .
Blok inverter use mosfets to make a sinus wave .
And true pure sinus wave use capacitor and more to make more nature way of a sinus wave.

Than the victron ve models are make difrence again.
The victron dc to ac are not connect.
It works with coils to charge the capacitor .
Reason its a marine / car use systeem that is beult against corrosion on ships so you do not have leak volts come of .
And kill a boat steel outside .

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@Destination: Moon

Please disregard @Suijkerbuijk ramblings. He doesn't understand.

Does the inverter power the 500W heater?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

@Destination: Moon

Please disregard @Suijkerbuijk ramblings. He doesn't understand.

Does the inverter power the 500W heater?

We will see who is correct .
You or me.

I still think the victron shutdown in protection.
By turning the tv on and have on that moment a big pull.
Victron is protect by two sides .
The input side if it can not have the amps and shutdown (cable to small)
The output side that have spike and shutdown to protect it self.

 

[Destination: Moon]

@Destination: Moon

Please disregard @Suijkerbuijk ramblings. He doesn't understand.

Does the inverter power the 500W heater?

Yes the Victron powers the heater from the LiFe battery without problem. I dont think the plasma hits anywhere near the startup capacity of the vixctron which is rated at 900W. I kinda think it relates to something I read but couldnt find more than a few words - relating to non-linear loads??

I think I know what this means (in laymen's terms) but not sure its the issue. I dont really understand why the Giandel 600 works fine for 30 or 40 minutes (gets warm but does not fault) . But the victron will not even get a flicker out of it. It makes me wonder if I should exchange it for something else - flexibility is the key to having a dependable backup, and it seems very load dependent???

 

[time2roll]

Less expensive to trade that power hungry plasma for a modern LED. Battery will last longer too.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Yes the Victron powers the heater from the LiFe battery without problem. I dont think the plasma hits anywhere near the startup capacity of the vixctron which is rated at 900W. I kinda think it relates to something I read but couldnt find more than a few words - relating to non-linear loads??

I think I know what this means (in laymen's terms) but not sure its the issue. I dont really understand why the Giandel 600 works fine for 30 or 40 minutes (gets warm but does not fault) . But the victron will not even get a flicker out of it. It makes me wonder if I should exchange it for something else - flexibility is the key to having a dependable backup, and it seems very load dependent???

What’s The Difference Between Linear And Non-Linear Electrical Loads?

AC electrical loadsare referred to either as linear or non-linear depending on how they draw current from the mains power supply...

www.riello-ups.co.uk

Here is goed explain how non linear loads .

Than see attach files .
About what Victron tell you about the inverter .
If your tv use non linear loads it use only a part of the wave from the sinus wave .
Means you have les power so that means that your inverter go in over protect and shutdown.

Reason your old inverter do the job.
More watts than the victron .
And do not use coils between dc and ac loads .
Wy use Victron coils ?
Marine specs the dc and ac never have a connect between them for the ground earth to ship wall.
Reason that are separated.
And coils charge and discharge is not that fast vs a direct connection of cable

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yes the Victron powers the heater from the LiFe battery without problem. I dont think the plasma hits anywhere near the startup capacity of the vixctron which is rated at 900W. I kinda think it relates to something I read but couldnt find more than a few words - relating to non-linear loads??

Thanks

I think I know what this means (in laymen's terms) but not sure its the issue. I dont really understand why the Giandel 600 works fine for 30 or 40 minutes (gets warm but does not fault) . But the victron will not even get a flicker out of it. It makes me wonder if I should exchange it for something else - flexibility is the key to having a dependable backup, and it seems very load dependent???

Does the Victron actually fault out, or does the TV just not turn on?

Are you using Beefy cables and have them properly torqued? Victron surge capability is tied to low DC ripple.

 

[Destination: Moon]

Thanks



Does the Victron actually fault out, or does the TV just not turn on?

Are you using Beefy cables and have them properly torqued? Victron surge capability is tied to low DC ripple.

I wasnt sure so just hooked it up again. Oddly, Even without the set being on, the Victron shows a fault as soon as its connected to the inverters outlet. It runs a ceramic heater OK.

We have 2 Powerstatons. A 1st gen Kodiak and a Delta 2 They drive the TV - without any apparent issues. Only the Victron seems to fail??

Would love to know what is going on?

 

[Destination: Moon]

Thanks



Does the Victron actually fault out, or does the TV just not turn on?

Are you using Beefy cables and have them properly torqued? Victron surge capability is tied to low DC ripple.

The power from the battery is via a 6 foot 10 gauge copper coated aluminum. I crimped ferrules onto the ends that go into the Inverter. Runs a 500 w space heater OK so I dont think this is the problem

 

[Brucey]

Less expensive to trade that power hungry plasma for a modern LED. Battery will last longer too.

Best replacement for a plasma is an OLED imo. Moving to an LCD would have significant drawbacks if he's used to plasma image quality.

 

[Brucey]

the Victron shows a fault as soon as its connected to the inverters outlet

What do you mean by this? What is the Victron being plugged into?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

The power from the battery is via a 6 foot 10 gauge copper coated aluminum. I crimped ferrules onto the ends that go into the Inverter. Runs a 500 w space heater OK so I dont think this is the problem

You can not use ferrules on that victron unit
Its in your manuel.
So your problem is that cable have not full contact wilt that Victron clamps inside.

That is your problem .
Cut it and than stick the cable direct in to the victron.

I use my self a victron 12/1200ve model (the big model series.)

 

[Brucey]

The power from the battery is via a 6 foot 10 gauge copper coated aluminum. I crimped ferrules onto the ends that go into the Inverter. Runs a 500 w space heater OK so I dont think this is the problem

Is this a 12V inverter? That might be 50A of DC on a very undersized wire.

 

[Q-Dog]

The power from the battery is via a 6 foot 10 gauge copper coated aluminum. I crimped ferrules onto the ends that go into the Inverter. Runs a 500 w space heater OK so I dont think this is the problem

Copper coated aluminum is no good. You need fine strand pure copper cables. Use the largest that will fit into the inverter.

 

[time2roll]

The power from the battery is via a 6 foot 10 gauge copper coated aluminum. I crimped ferrules onto the ends that go into the Inverter. Runs a 500 w space heater OK so I dont think this is the problem

The Victron Manual says #6 wire is required on page 15. I recommend going by the book if operating to full spec is needed.

 

[Destination: Moon]

Best replacement for a plasma is an OLED imo. Moving to an LCD would have significant drawbacks if he's used to plasma image quality.

I know! We have a Sony AK80 and its incredible! This old plasma is in my execise space and isnt used much. But I wanted to see how these things performed. Not much of a test delivering 35 watts to the OLED.... and I dont want to run a heater in the middle of summer. So I used solar to charge things and then see how things run

 

[Destination: Moon]

The Victron Manual says #6 wire is required on page 15. I recommend going by the book if operating to full spec is needed.

I dont think 6 would fit! and besides, the heater works at 500w (on the plug in watt meter), while the sub 400w TV trips it into fault or alarm mode

 

[Destination: Moon]

Copper coated aluminum is no good. You need fine strand pure copper cables. Use the largest that will fit into the inverter.

Yeah, I know but its running the 500w heater just fine? I will lop off the ferrules to see if that helps. Amp charts show it will conduct 35 amps but get very hot. So far I have not seen that kind of heat in the wire as its powering the Giandel 600 W inverter - Thinking it should run the same with the victron since the load is the same? Am I missing something??

 

[Destination: Moon]

What do you mean by this? What is the Victron being plugged into?

When the plasma TV is plugged into the Victron and turned on the Inverter starts blinking the red light. Even before the powering it on. Just the standby current of the TV (about 20W) seems to make the Victron misbehave (The Victron is set to ON, not ECO