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diy solar

diy solar

So, I joined the BURN club.

There was no high voltage to stop you had a high discharge that the bms had no way of stopping due to a direct case short
you think the terminal touched the metal case? hmmm.. i thought that for a moment also, but, it wouldn't do anything if it was just one terminal right? it'd need to have contact in 2 points no? I assumed maybe a gecko or something ran across it, but didn't see any carcas. or you thinking the metal in the back that was scracthed away was the culprit?
 
If the positive is contacting the frame anywhere when the case grounds it’s a direct short thru the damaged area on the cell
ok, so i see your logic, scratched case from the poor welding in the back. the case is a negative charge. but.. arguably. there was no visible contact between the terminal case. plus, this system did work for a couple of weeks (never to 100% SOC arguably), and there was not changes or hits or fiddling with in that time. So what made it break now.
 
ok, so i see your logic, scratched case from the poor welding in the back. the case is a negative charge. but.. arguably. there was no visible contact between the terminal case. plus, this system did work for a couple of weeks (never to 100% SOC arguably), and there was not changes or hits or fiddling with in that time. So what made it break now.
Charge status can expand battery cell causing pressure
Check the cell voltage on damaged cell and the one beside it and a few random others
 
Personally.

I'd strip out all your packs.
Clean up any iffy welding with your angle-grinder.
Examine all your cells for potential damage.
Invest in insulating plates (FR4) for between your cells and all around each pack. The blue heat shrink stuff is very thin and cannot really be relied upon.

 
checking on the voltages of the cells, arguably the one has a hole in the back corder, so, it's dead. also, another piece of information. we did have the DISABLE FLOAT CHARGE unchecked. so it was technically FLOAT CHARGING. not sure if that caused it. Doing some research on Grok and GPT, but say that lithium mode maxes out at 57v.
 
well.. we were first on the JK 's, but such a problem to start them up, I gave up. So was told that DALY is the one to go to. They ain't cheap either. So now you guys are saying JBD or SEPLOS?

Our initial intent was to not have them in a house, but in a boat, with a Nissan EV motor. But cannot find anyone techincal enough here to get that thing spinning sadly. Either way, I though Daly was one of the better ones.
 
I'm at a bit of a loss, cause nothing is the clear obvious fault. the deye's should limit it to 58v. the breakers didn't pop at 125a each (5x) the BMS's didn't find anything, (arguably, seems one of them is now dead). even if it did die, there shouldn't have been more than 58v in there in the first place. My confidence is shot.
 
What breakers were used? Pics?

I noticed there no threaded inserts in the dual terminals- not original eves?

I would suggest supporting the entire bottom of the cells without just supporting some of the edge with that angle iron. Need to insulate everything that could short with fr4 sheets etc.

Daly have a horrible reputation here but often available for cheap.

Solark/deye lithium mode seems to imply you will be using battery comms, so it's not like choosing lithium on a victron charge Profile for example.

 
Aside of what have been said.

I just assumed the DEYE LITHIUM mode had the proper lithium values
1 - Assumption is mother of many fuck ups. Never assume any thing!
The chain is never stronger than it's weakest link. One need to understand every part of a system in order to achieve reliable operation.
2 - I would not trust philips-screws on terminals where exact torque is required. I would use only hex-head-screws. Did you use torque-wrench when tightening screws on the terminals?
3 - I see the cells have double-threaded terminals. Bus bars are also with double holes. I see some terminals are connected using both bolts/terminal but some are using only 1 of the 2. I see it as inconsistent and such things can also create deviations.

Be diligent. Never "cut corners". If you are not sure about some thing, first, find the answer how to do it correct, before you do it.

I am glad that the damage did not escalated more than it did.
 
What breakers were used? Pics?

I noticed there no threaded inserts in the dual terminals- not original eves?

I would suggest supporting the entire bottom of the cells without just supporting some of the edge with that angle iron. Need to insulate everything that could short with fr4 sheets etc.

Daly have a horrible reputation here but often available for cheap.

Solark/deye lithium mode seems to imply you will be using battery comms, so it's not like choosing lithium on a victron charge Profile for example.

I think you can see the battery breakers, green ones, in one of the pics. Suntree i think, 125a (5x). Ok, didn't know Daly was so bad. but arguably.. maybe there was nothing for them to protect if the short was external? and yes LITHIUM mode implies that, but, it still has protections.
 
I think you can see the battery breakers, green ones, in one of the pics. Suntree i think, 125a (5x).
OK I see them. Will did a test of a portable outlet box recently and the 20A rated breakers didn't trip until over 60A iirc. He has since taken it down I believe.

No BMS could protect from a direct short like this.
 
Aside of what have been said.


1 - Assumption is mother of many fuck ups. Never assume any thing!
The chain is never stronger than it's weakest link. One need to understand every part of a system in order to achieve reliable operation.
2 - I would not trust philips-screws on terminals where exact torque is required. I would use only hex-head-screws. Did you use torque-wrench when tightening screws on the terminals?
3 - I see the cells have double-threaded terminals. Bus bars are also with double holes. I see some terminals are connected using both bolts/terminal but some are using only 1 of the 2. I see it as inconsistent and such things can also create deviations.

Be diligent. Never "cut corners". If you are not sure about some thing, first, find the answer how to do it correct, before you do it.

I am glad that the damage did not escalated more than it did.
yeah, I hear ya, as and engineer and a pilot, your words are correct. But we live in the Phillipines, 4th world country, and make due with a lot. We don't often have the luxury to go 100% on 100% of things. Arguably, this was close. and has been working for a while. torque was "hand tight" by an installer who has been doing it for 5 years and never a fire (so he says). and yeah, maybe this could be the cause. Just doesn't feel like it's the issue. I'm thinking a bad stem and the cut plastic base in the back. I'll add some foam too. Either way, there is no way of knowing nw
 
Perhaps the "Hand tight" terminal built up resistance on that one cell the BMS allowed it to overcharge. Would have to do a voltage check using a DVM right from the terminal and compare it to what the BMS is seeing. My inverter set to lead acid 56.4 charge voltage and 54.4 float it never would get above 58V. I would want the inverter to stay below what the BMS max voltage is set to the BMS should only cut out if the inverter continues charging.

I built a battery box "Mig welder & some steel" I found while it worked ended up just buying box kit from APexium. They did a decent job of designing a box much smaller box then I built. The new ones have M8 terminals instead of those fancy push on connectors which some had problems and melted. You might want to just ditch the DIY angle iron battery box and go with one of these. The one I got it came with the new JK inverter BMS has active balancing won't have any issue with turning them on.
 
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Forgive me if this is an obvious or redundant question but,

The crackling stopped when?

When you turned off charging on the inverter?

If so, it was the inverter, overcharging.

A case short would have continued even after the isolation breaker was tripped.
 
Perhaps the "Hand tight" terminal built up resistance on that one cell the BMS allowed it to overcharge. Would have to do a voltage check using a DVM right from the terminal and compare it to what the BMS is seeing. My inverter set to lead acid 56.4 charge voltage and 54.4 float it never would get above 58V. I would want the inverter to stay below what the BMS max voltage is set to the BMS should only cut out if the inverter continues charging.

I built a battery box "Mig welder & some steel" I found while it worked ended up just buying box kit from APexium. They did a decent job of designing a box much smaller box then I built. The new ones have M8 terminals instead of those fancy push on connectors which some had problems and melted. You might want to just ditch the DIY angle iron battery box and go with one of these.
can you explain that? how would a not tightened terminal allow overcharging? Isn't the voltage what the voltage is? say worst case 58v. how would it be more? I could see maybe some micro arching, causing warmth. but dang... it was 100% for 20 minutes, and it was already on it's way down as the deye shows it detected 100% voltage, so it was throttling down the solar power, as can be seen on the solarman screenshots. yeah, the DIY is more painful. Our original intent, 2 years ago, was to have custom built racks that are easily cell-swappable in a large EV boat. That fell apart due to lack of technical expertise here, so we got railroaded here. Now, with the advent of cheap cells and cases, it seems obvious to buy a case, but, it wasn't 2 years ago. quite frustrating to try to be a leader in any field.
 
can you explain that? how would a not tightened terminal allow overcharging? Isn't the voltage what the voltage is? say worst case 58v. how would it be more? I could see maybe some micro arching, causing warmth. but dang... it was 100% for 20 minutes, and it was already on it's way down as the deye shows it detected 100% voltage, so it was throttling down the solar power, as can be seen on the solarman screenshots. yeah, the DIY is more painful. Our original intent, 2 years ago, was to have custom built racks that are easily cell-swappable in a large EV boat. That fell apart due to lack of technical expertise here, so we got railroaded here. Now, with the advent of cheap cells and cases, it seems obvious to buy a case, but, it wasn't 2 years ago. quite frustrating to try to be a leader in any field.
A micro arcing situation would have been going on the entire charge, building heat.
 
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how would a not tightened terminal allow overcharging? Isn't the voltage what the voltage is?
A loose connection creates higher resistance in that circuit. Higher resistance creates voltage drop reading.
The voltage reading of that connection thus reads lower value than the cell have in reality, thus the system continues to push more power in to the cell.

There is also an other problem with loose connections. Higher resistance converts electric power to heat. Heat flows partially in to battery. The prime enemy of batteries is temperature outside its optimal ratings. Higher heat escalates physical degradation of the sells, shortening its life span. That adds to the problematic geographic location of Asia, where temperatures are higher than in many other countries that have more moderate climate.
 
can you explain that? how would a not tightened terminal allow overcharging? Isn't the voltage what the voltage is? say worst case 58v. how would it be more? I could see maybe some micro arching, causing warmth. but dang... it was 100% for 20 minutes, and it was already on it's way down as the deye shows it detected 100% voltage, so it was throttling down the solar power, as can be seen on the solarman screenshots. yeah, the DIY is more painful. Our original intent, 2 years ago, was to have custom built racks that are easily cell-swappable in a large EV boat. That fell apart due to lack of technical expertise here, so we got railroaded here. Now, with the advent of cheap cells and cases, it seems obvious to buy a case, but, it wasn't 2 years ago. quite frustrating to try to be a leader in any field.
Small differences in voltage between what the actual battery is seeing, and the inverter/bms could over charge it. Might have been okay when it was first built cycling over time good idea go back with a DVM and check from the terminal stud itself on each cell. Maybe that cell was getting over charged repeatedly. Good that didn't start a fire and burn down the place probably the fact that you had steel around it wasn't any wood around it to catch fire the heat was contained.
 
Well, funny, i did ask that the day before. the DEYE was set to "lithium" mode. which i think then just uses an internal table to send power. I couldn't find anywhere that references those values. When I set the DEYE to VOLTAGE mode, then I can see volt values. I just assumed the DEYE LITHIUM mode had the proper lithium values we all use.
Bad assumption.
More than one kind of lithium battery in the world.
 

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