Sol-ark 12K and generator cool-down

[Llaves]

According to Sol-Ark tech support and as best as I can tell from the manual, the 12K does not offer a cool-down delay when shutting down a generator. Many generators (such as my Kohler 14RCA) require a cool-down period (2 minutes in my case) or else the warranty may be voided. The generator does not provide the delay, presumably because this would also require the generator to have a means of cutting off output power when the the remote start signal is terminated.

How are others dealing with this issue? A circuit to provide a two-minute delay after the remote start signal drops is not that hard to build, but would not assure that the load has dropped.

 

[RV10flyer]

When my 12K’s stop calling for Gen auto start, they switch over to pv and battery inputs. My Generac has a two minute cool down and stops putting out power during this time.

 

[Llaves]

I finally got a reply from Sol-Ark. If the generator outputs power during cooldown, then the 12K will continue to see the power and will pull on it "to loads as needed". From watching the 12K, in general it does not draw on the grid supply if power is available from the batteries or PV input. Not sure what pushes it over the edge into using grid/generator power - I know that large loads will still trip a fault even with generator power available. While it is generally safe to assume no load during a cooldown cycle controlled by the generator, it is not guaranteed. A cooldown cycle programmed from the 12K is the real solution, if they ever implement this feature.

 

[Nkin]

Llaves,

Look into starter modules from https://atkinsonelectronics.com. They make a ($210.00 ) GSCM Mini 3R which is supposed to allow load removal for a cooldown period. The attached PDF may help. It’s the recently added K 3 relay which should do the job.

I’m considering upgrade to Kohler 12RES or a Generac 10kw or 15kw eco. Looks like this may be best way to facilitate. Kohler. I’d appreciate any thoughts on good propane AGS generator for my system — which likely will need only an average of about 3-4 kWh every other day through Vermont winter here.

I’d prefer smaller generator but my 2006 propane Honda is aging and I’d like to have generator service company “on call” in case of trouble. Local installers heavily favor the oversized units.

Nkin

 

[Llaves]

Llaves,

Look into starter modules from https://atkinsonelectronics.com. They make a ($210.00 ) GSCM Mini 3R which is supposed to allow load removal for a cooldown period. The attached PDF may help. It’s the recently added K 3 relay which should do the job.

These modules still need a load control contactor to drop the connection between the inverter and genset.
Turns out my Kohler 14RCA has a built-in cooldown cycle. It's based on oil temp and so far the exercise cycles do not get the oil hot enough to engage the shutdown delay.

I’m considering upgrade to Kohler 12RES or a Generac 10kw or 15kw eco. Looks like this may be best way to facilitate. Kohler. I’d appreciate any thoughts on good propane AGS generator for my system — which likely will need only an average of about 3-4 kWh every other day through Vermont winter here.

I’d prefer smaller generator but my 2006 propane Honda is aging and I’d like to have generator service company “on call” in case of trouble. Local installers heavily favor the oversized units.

Nkin

I have two Kohler generators, a 15+ year-old 15RYG and a brand-new 14RCA. The 15RYG has had a couple of incidents* (after over 3000 hours of use) that led to adding the 14RCA. I'm happy with Kohler generators, but wish I could have still gotten something more like the 15RYG, which is discontinued. It's a 4-cyl, water-cooled, 1800 RPM unit, compared to the 14RCA which is 2-cyl, air-cooled, 3600 RPM. The 14RCA is seems a bit louder, but the noise specs are nearly the same. Both units can be switched between natural gas and propane; the 14RCA is easier to switch, but the 15RYG is pretty easy once you know the drill. The 14RCA has a more modern controller, which includes a programmable exercise cycle and internet connectivity. The 14RCA is one of the few Kohler generators that is warrantied for off-grid use. If I could find a low-hours (500-1000) 15RYG I'd take that in a heartbeat over the 14RCA, in spite of the lack of modern features. The 4-cyl GM Vortec engine is a beast compared to the newer units.

The Generac ECO has an impressive warranty - much longer than the Kohler, so that may be an important factor. Probably not a factor in most of Vermont, but don't forget that generators has a significant de-rate factor with altitude. I'm at 7500', which costs me over 30% of the rated capacity. Of course, that's more than 3000' higher than the highest point in Vermont, so you won't have anywhere near that level of concern.

*Both incidents occurred at Christmas in the snow, of course. The first time I managed to get a generator service tech to the house (2.5 hours each way on the service call in a storm) and he said I had an ice build-up between the brushes and commutator. How this happened is beyond me. The second time, two years later, the SCR burned out. I got one overnighted and installed it standing in 10" of fresh snow. Other than that there have been no service calls. I've changed the plugs once, the oil annually, the radiator coolant once. I also replaced the controller. It was still working, but showing odd symptoms that suggested the prudent approach was a replacement. That's in 15 years and 3500 hours on the clock.

 

[Nkin]

These modules still need a load control contactor to drop the connection between the inverter and genset.
Turns out my Kohler 14RCA has a built-in cooldown cycle. It's based on oil temp and so far the exercise cycles do not get the oil hot enough to engage the shutdown delay.


I have two Kohler generators, a 15+ year-old 15RYG and a brand-new 14RCA. The 15RYG has had a couple of incidents* (after over 3000 hours of use) that led to adding the 14RCA. I'm happy with Kohler generators, but wish I could have still gotten something more like the 15RYG, which is discontinued. It's a 4-cyl, water-cooled, 1800 RPM unit, compared to the 14RCA which is 2-cyl, air-cooled, 3600 RPM. The 14RCA is seems a bit louder, but the noise specs are nearly the same. Both units can be switched between natural gas and propane; the 14RCA is easier to switch, but the 15RYG is pretty easy once you know the drill. The 14RCA has a more modern controller, which includes a programmable exercise cycle and internet connectivity. The 14RCA is one of the few Kohler generators that is warrantied for off-grid use. If I could find a low-hours (500-1000) 15RYG I'd take that in a heartbeat over the 14RCA, in spite of the lack of modern features. The 4-cyl GM Vortec engine is a beast compared to the newer units.

The Generac ECO has an impressive warranty - much longer than the Kohler, so that may be an important factor. Probably not a factor in most of Vermont, but don't forget that generators has a significant de-rate factor with altitude. I'm at 7500', which costs me over 30% of the rated capacity. Of course, that's more than 3000' higher than the highest point in Vermont, so you won't have anywhere near that level of concern.

*Both incidents occurred at Christmas in the snow, of course. The first time I managed to get a generator service tech to the house (2.5 hours each way on the service call in a storm) and he said I had an ice build-up between the brushes and commutator. How this happened is beyond me. The second time, two years later, the SCR burned out. I got one overnighted and installed it standing in 10" of fresh snow. Other than that there have been no service calls. I've changed the plugs once, the oil annually, the radiator coolant once. I also replaced the controller. It was still working, but showing odd symptoms that suggested the prudent approach was a replacement. That's in 15 years and 3500 hours on the clock.

Llaves,

Thank you. I’m not pursuing that Atkinson unit at this point - I trust you’re correct. Sounds logical.

Unfortunately, the Generac 15KwEcogen warranty still only lasts 3 years (three times Kohler for off grid). I know not to take YouTubers too seriously, but it seems Generac has offended it’s share, possibly more. That and the service calls my neighbors have experienced (not to mention $) have discouraged me enough to simply stick with my Honda EM6500SX, remote start, protected in a good shed. [I’d prefer my 2005 propane Honda EM6000GP but it needs repair. Another sad product discontinuation. No heaters, no trouble - for 16 years.]

So far, the gasoline Honda hasn’t even needed the special “warmers” Kohler and Generac both seem to require. If I remember about right, they would start drawing a total of about 80 watts when temp falls below 40F and continue to drain battery 24/7 until temp rises above 40. Not good off grid - especially when my PV system may only need a generator “boost” (an hour or so?) about every other day.

I’m also intrigued by the1800 rpm units, but haven’t found anything suitable to my relatively minor usage. Plus, a neighbor with a big diesel also keeps the service truck surprisingly busy.

Wow, you’re 5800’ higher than we are! Enjoy NM. We certainly have challenges - but nice not to worry about the power outages plaguing so many people today.

Happy holidays.

 

[Llaves]

So far, the gasoline Honda hasn’t even needed the special “warmers” Kohler and Generac both seem to require. If I remember about right, they would start drawing a total of about 80 watts when temp falls below 40F and continue to drain battery 24/7 until temp rises above 40. Not good off grid - especially when my PV system may only need a generator “boost” (an hour or so?) about every other day.

my 15RYG has started pretty reliably to -20F and even colder. I did have a problem at -43F, though. That's about the point at which liquid propane no longer evaporates. The two issues I had would not have been solved by the battery or fuel regulator heaters they sell for these generators.

The polar vortex has missed us completely. Crystal clear blue skies. Our overnight lows rival much of those in the affected areas, but then the sun comes out and the high is 40° above the lows, unlike some of the places I've looked at where the difference between high and low is in the single digits.

 

[Nkin]

Wondered about screen name - then looked up town of Llaves. Interesting territory. Closest I’ve come is Jemez Soda Dam.

Worst storm seems in NY near Buffalo. We’re up to teens now. Never too cold for propane down this elevation.

I’m surprised you need such a capable generator with 36 400 watt panels at high altitude - with 800 amp hour battery! Woweee. Double mine.

Enjoy. No questions asked. ;-)

 

[Llaves]

I’m surprised you need such a capable generator with 36 400 watt panels at high altitude - with 800 amp hour battery! Woweee. Double mine.

The 36x400W array is new this August. Before that we were limping by on 18 x 160W installed in 2007. The generator was essential in those conditions. We have yet to run the generator for battery charging since the upgrade, but we also haven't had any serious snow yet either. The real test will be a 2-3 day storm.

 

[Nkin]

Excellent system. Best of luck.