Sol-Ark 12K + Enphase IQ8 microinverters

[mrzed001]

Every inverter I have researched treats a generator input as unstable voltage reference and utility input as stable voltage reference. The inverter will not "stabilize" the generator voltage as that is impossible... it will simply isolate the load from it, using it to charge batteries. If the inverter is not providing a voltage reference to the microinverters, what is?

I do not know the Sol-Ark, but in the Deye inverters it is not a gen, but a smart port.
It can be used for power in (generator), AC coupling grid-tie inverters ... also to connect loads that are turned on automatically by the inverter if batteries are full and have a lot of PV power.

 

[timselectric]

I do not know the Sol-Ark, but in the Deye inverters it is not a gen, but a smart port.
It can be used for power in (generator), AC coupling grid-tie inverters ... also to connect loads that are turned on automatically by the inverter if batteries are full and have a lot of PV power.

Sol-ark is made by Deye.
And the same configuration.

 

[mrzed001]

Sol-ark is made by Deye.
And the same configuration.

I know But they can be small differences in the SW/HW side.
Like there is in the MPP Solar US and EU models.

 

[timselectric]

I know But they can be small differences in the SW/HW side.
Like there is in the MPP Solar US and EU models.

Well, in this case. They are both configured the same way. And, capable of doing the same thing.

 

[Hedges]

Every inverter I have researched treats a generator input as unstable voltage reference and utility input as stable voltage reference. The inverter will not "stabilize" the generator voltage as that is impossible... it will simply isolate the load from it, using it to charge batteries. If the inverter is not providing a voltage reference to the microinverters, what is?

The inverter, or the grid, supplies voltage reference to miroinverters or other GT PV inverters.

As I understand, the so called "generator" port is simply a couple electrical terminals, isolated from "load" terminals by a relay. And presumably with voltage/current sensors.

If it was called "multipurpose", simply a different name in the manual and perhaps marked on the case (a rose by any other name), that wouldn't change actual functionality.

Firmware can simply close the relay and wait to see if GT PV inverters on the port wake up and start delivering power.
Or, can send a "generator start" request when batteries low, wait for voltage to stabilize on the port, synchronize inverter drive "load" port to "generator" port, close relay for a seamless connection.

(Some inverter/chargers just use AC input to drive a battery charger. Others have a bidirectional inverter. Some can backfeed the grid, support loads with some power from grid and some from battery, charge battery from grid. Mine, Sunny Island, has a single input for grid/generator and a signal input to inform it which has been connected. Grid, inverter, or generator supplies reverence voltage to GT PV inverters on the load side. If grid present, backfeed is allowed. If generator, backfeed not allowed so if GT PV output exceeds loads plus battery charging, generator is isolated by relay and inverter shifts frequency to curtail prodution.)

User/installer can connect a generator to the port, configure SolArk to think it is used for GT PV, then sit back and see what happens when generator and grid get shorted together. Likely it would observe voltage present (if generator running) and not obey stupid instructions. But if generator is turned off so zero voltage present, it may not observe the difference and proceed to connect.

 

[Ampster]

It sounds like it is a multipurpose port.

 

[timselectric]

It is

 

[Ellis Redding]

also to connect loads that are turned on automatically by the inverter if batteries are full and have a lot of PV power.

Does the SolArk do this?

 

[Bluedog225]

I wonder if we can get @Will Prowse to do an off-grid microinverter video?

Something that will bring it all together.

I’ve been struggling with this for a while myself.

 

[Ampster]

I wonder if we can get @Will Prowse to do an off-grid microinverter video?

I thought all micros were Grid Tied? Or are you talking about the Enphase IQ8 or bringing AC coupling together?

 

[Ellis Redding]

I thought all micros were Grid Tied? Or are you talking about the Enphase IQ8?

Presumably, if you have a battery with power connected to something like a SolArk, the SolArk would provide the off-grid system voltage to allow the Enphase to produce.
You'd only need enough battery to start things. Kind of like a car battery.

I don't know this for a fact, but always assumed this was how it would work off-grid.

 

[timselectric]

Yes
Any grid forming inverter can trick the Micro-inverters into turning on. The issues come from being able to control their output.
This is possible with any inverter that is capable of AC coupling and frequency shifting.

 

[timselectric]

Does the SolArk do this?

Yes, it can.

 

[Bluedog225]

Does anyone know of other (cheaper) options?

 

[Ellis Redding]

Yes, it can.

Interesting. Somewhere I saw a video where a guy had set up a fairly massive heating element in his attic for his inverter that wasn't able to handle reducing production.
He'd blackened a number of wood studs holding up his roof. Definitely don't want to go there.

 

[Ampster]

Does anyone know of other (cheaper) options?

Yes, there are less expensive hybrid inverters that can do AC coupling. My Outback Skybox, Schneider and others discussed extensively in other threads.

 

[Hedges]

Does anyone know of other (cheaper) options?

Yeah, Sunny Island MSRP $5700

 

[Ellis Redding]

BMS Communication Cables with Solar Inverters & Voltacon Lithium Ion Li-2021 2.4kWh and US2000 Pylontech - Voltacon Solar Blog

Table 1 , contains the pin layout for the most used solar off grid inverters. The Battery port RS485 (RJ45 port) is located on the lithium ion battery Li-2021. Only 2 pin are required for the BMS communication protocol PinNumber Battery RS485 BatteryCAN DEYE Victron Voltronic GOODWE Growatt 1 […]

voltaconsolar.com

 

[azgrogg]

So this is directly in the Owner Manual.
This way doesn't seem to be using the MPPTs.
I would be very hesitant to not follow this for AC Coupling as if you could do both, they probably would have listed it.
Basically this just replaces the Enphase Smart Switch with the Sol Ark which is a super expensive trade off. But it might let you use a real battery. Rather than the Enphase 10x battery. 10x being the cost.
View attachment 87401

Quick question on wiring in your PV through the critical loads panel. It says, DO NOT USE the gen input. Does that mean I would not be able to add a generator at some point for prolong outages or is it just noting that you are wired in through the CLP? Basically, is the gen input disabled?

I am actively pursuing installing a grid tied system with enphase micro inverters with a Sol Ark 12k and adding Lifepower4 EG4 batteries.

Anyone have any input before I jump off the edge and do it?

 

[Ampster]

Quick question on wiring in your PV through the critical loads panel. It says, DO NOT USE the gen input. Does that mean I would not be able to add a generator at some point for prolong outages or is it just noting that you are wired in through the CLP? Basically, is the gen input disabled?

I do not have a SolArk and have always been confused why SolArk recommends to wire AC coupled inverters directly to the Generator port. That is inconsistent with how my Outback Skybox uses the bidirectional AC out port to the Critical Load panel and the AC coupled inverter(s) to the CLP. I recently saw an explanation that was purely anecdotal that said the reason the SolArk prefers to AC couple through the Generator port is that allows them to use the Generator port relay to open the connection if the SolArk cannot ramp down the AC coupled inverter(s} fast enough. That seems like a klunky solution.

If that is the case, it would be a limitation of the SolArk in terms of being able to AC couple and use a generator, More importantly is suggests to me that the algorithm that SolArk uses for AC coupling is limited in functionality.