Sol-Ark 12k Limited to Home mode questions

[robby]

Thanks for the reply. Its starting to sink in now. I watched a few videos on YouTube of Bens Solar, and this one below and I think it's starting to seep through my thick skull a little each day now. I was thinking TOU settings but wasn't sure that was how to make the 12k use my battery bank instead of grid but makes sense now thinking TOU means do NOT use the grid during these times (because grid power is higher during those times). Being here on a constant 11 cents per kwh I wasn't too sure TOU was a feature I needed to learn or use, but now I see it's important and learning more about how TOU settings work. I like how Sol-Ark didn't bloat the firmware and have all kinds of stuff. The take a few settings and with a combination of settings it seems you can accomplish about anything you want to do. Least software for maximum flexibility from what I can tell (which I like).

Yep! It's a thing of beauty to watch it in action.

The TOU setting also allows you to limit how much power it can draw from the batteries at any instance of time during that time slot. This also comes in handy during the day.

For example I set mine so that after 9am so long as the SOC is above 30% it can draw up to 2.2KW continuous from the battery if needed. After 1pm it can draw 2.8KW from the battery so long as it is above 90% SOC. This acts as a buffer, so when the clouds roll over for a few minutes or hours.
So if the PV power is insufficient to power the loads it can pull extra power from the batteries. This keeps it from using any Grid power during those times.

Once the sun comes out again it uses the PV to fully power the loads and any excess is used to charge the batteries. You can set the priority in the menu and make Battery get first priority or the House. If energy savings is the goal then the House should get priority on PV power and batteries get the extra.

As you analyze the graphs after the first week you see the trends and get a good idea of the optimum settings that cut down Grid usage and yet leave you with a full battery by 5pm. At 5pm my TOU setting prevents it from using the battery and any PV coming in is just cancelling out some of the Grid Usage until about 6pm when I am now fully back on the grid.

At 10pm I set mine to go fully on battery up to 2500W up until basically 9am. On a typical day the battery will just about be at 20% by 7am and the Sol-Ark will direct the 600 or so watts of incoming PV to battery to get it up to 21% typically by about 7:20am and then after that direct all the PV to the House. The battery will kick in and supplement it to keep off the grid until about 7:40am at which point the PV is typically powering the whole house and the battery starts to charge on the extra. By 9am the if it is at 30% SOC the whole process starts again.

If there is a power outage the TOU is bypassed and it will use as much battery and PV power as needed to keep the Loads going. It will only stop when it reaches the set lower limit for the battery which in my case is 10% SOC. That reserve 10% will guarantee me that if there is an outage at 1am in the morning I will still have battery power until about 8:30am which is more than enough time for the PV to kick in and have started charging.

 

[robby]

Here is last Sunday which was a cloudy day.



I put the Red arrow to show you how the Sol-Ark handles a big cloud coming over at 2pm.
PV dropped from near 9Kw down to 1.7Kw and the Battery Kicked in 2.7Kw to keep the 4.2Kw load happy. As soon as the clouds passed you can see it started charging the battery again to 100% SOC.
The 17w you see of Grid power is really zero watts.

 

[SolarHead]

Thank you for getting me to thinking deeper about TOU settings. At first, I was thinking in simple terms like set TOU at 9pm till say 7am the next morning. During those times have the Sol-Ark pull from batteries. When I think TOU I am now thinking "don't pull from grid", pull from battery even during the daytime if certain conditions are met (allow some wattage, at a certain SOC). With your input I'm now thinking like you and will probably lend maybe 2000 watts during the day if needed (cloud) and IF the SOC is say 50% or better, then take it back off around 3pm or so to make sure the power goes to charging the battery before nighttime. The 2000 watts from battery during the day is just an insurance policy against random clouds but keep it set so I can still charge the batteries and prepare for night. I will probably start out with the simple 9pm to 7am thing, then start tweaking over time. One thing I want to experiment with soon is the Smart Load feature, and push some power to the lower element in an electric water heater to pre-heat water for my gas tankless water heater. I don't know how much excess power (if any) I will have but once I learn how much excess I may have, then I'll experiment with the TOU and Smart Load settings to get the most out of my PV.

One thing I thought of, does the TOU settings have enough time slots? Looks like it has 3 slots (from/to, from/to, from/to) in the settings. I guess I could do 8am-to-9pm 2,000 watts if >60% SOC, then from 10pm-to-7am 4000 watts if >20% SOC. Or something like that. Maybe allow 500 watts to be sent to Smart Load if PV has any excess at any time, not sure about that. I think making solar system configuration changes/expansions in multiple passes is wise instead of trying to set it all at once.

 

[SolarHead]

Okay, I went to configure TOU settings and I'm embarrassed, it doesnt make sense , or well the settings leave some questions.


I see 3 time slots (start/stop, start/stop, start/stop) if I am thinking of this correctly. I can get the time configured like I want, like from 9pm to 7am, but what do I do with the other slots that I don't need? Do I zero them, not sure but seems like the moment you put a check box at "time of use selling" , it starts using the 3 slots whether you like it or not, until you change them. But not sure how to remove a slot (or 2) if I don't need them. Looks like it would need a checkbox beside each slot as to make the slot active or not.

Then, on the configured time slot, I'm not sure how many watts to enter. I would like to cover my well pump because its the biggest load in my critical needs panel but maybe I don't need to worry about covering any load size, just think about how much battery I want to give up (how much discharge can I handle). Using the above screenshot, I guess 2000 would mean 2000 watts continuous, until battery reached 40% then it stops pulling from battery and goes back to pulling from grid? correct? If my well pump used 2500 watts, then 2000 from battery and 500 from grid to cover the well pump.

I don't see much in the user manual about GridCharge, I guess if I put a check on that time slot there in the GridCharge box, it means the grid power will go towards charging the battery, but seems like a conflict to me, I mean, I want to pull from the battery, not charge battery from grid, during a time slot. Doesn't make sense to me why you would want to GridCharge while discharging the battery.

Anyway, if you can help me gain an understanding I'm sure I'm over-thinking it, something I do often. I looked for a video on YouTube but only saw where they kind of glance over it and mention it but leaves questions.

 

[SolarHead]

Also, I read something in the user manual that I don't know if I should use. Its the "Grid Sell" check box. I don't have a net metering agreement, don't want one, don't want to sell back to the grid, so should I leave this box unchecked? The user manual states this;

Simultaneously select Grid Sell and Limited to Home Load (light bulb) icon on the home screen now includes both the load breaker power and the home’s consumption.

 

[robby]

Okay, I went to configure TOU settings and I'm embarrassed, it doesnt make sense , or well the settings leave some questions.

View attachment 87228
I see 3 time slots (start/stop, start/stop, start/stop) if I am thinking of this correctly. I can get the time configured like I want, like from 9pm to 7am, but what do I do with the other slots that I don't need? Do I zero them, not sure but seems like the moment you put a check box at "time of use selling" , it starts using the 3 slots whether you like it or not, until you change them. But not sure how to remove a slot (or 2) if I don't need them. Looks like it would need a checkbox beside each slot as to make the slot active or not.

Ok what you need to put in a time slot that you do not want to be active is 100. If the SOC is set to 100% it means the Sol-Ark will not use the battery.

You say 9pm to 7am you want to a max of 2Kw to be used then it would be like this:

01:00AM 2000 40%
05:00AM 2000 40%
07:00AM 2000 100% (Power does not matter as it will no longer provide battery after 7AM
01:00PM 2000 100% (Still kept off)
05:00PM 2000 100% (Still Kept off)
09:00PM 2000 40% (Unit will now start to use the battery until 7AM)

You can change the times but they must be kept in a linear order from earliest to latest time.
The slot at 1:00PM could be changed at a later date to 11AM and set to 90% that way it can use 10% of your battery to boost daytime usage before being cut at 5PM.
If you have reliable utility service then stopping at 40% seems to be way too conservative, I set mine to 20%.

Then, on the configured time slot, I'm not sure how many watts to enter. I would like to cover my well pump because its the biggest load in my critical needs panel but maybe I don't need to worry about covering any load size, just think about how much battery I want to give up (how much discharge can I handle).

Yep if your Grid tied it makes a lot more sense to have the Utility power those big loads that only last a few minutes rather than waste your batteries. If 2Kw is the average power use at your house then maybe set it to 2.2Kw and if the pump kicks in and the usage goes up to 5Kw the other 2.8Kw will be drawn from the Utility.

Using the above screenshot, I guess 2000 would mean 2000 watts continuous, until battery reached 40%

Yes but 2000 Watts is the Max that it can draw until 40% is reached.

then it stops pulling from battery and goes back to pulling from grid? correct?

Yes.

If my well pump used 2500 watts, then 2000 from battery and 500 from grid to cover the well pump.

Yes if it is nighttime. In the day it will use the PV also.

I don't see much in the user manual about GridCharge, I guess if I put a check on that time slot there in the GridCharge box, it means the grid power will go towards charging the battery, but seems like a conflict to me,

Gridcharge will do as it says. You set the maximum amount of Amps it can pull from the grid and at what SOC you want it to trigger charging and it will charge the battery using the Grid the moment it gets to that SOC and charge it to 100%. Good feature to use if a storm is approaching or is on top of you and you want to get the batteries charged quickly in case of an outage. It's not all that useful in terms of saving power. (there are two separate Menus that have to be set to use Grid Charge)

I get what you mean by conflict. It's just turning that slot in the TOU into a battery charging application also. Useless for some but very important for others.

I mean, I want to pull from the battery, not charge battery from grid, during a time slot. Doesn't make sense to me why you would want to GridCharge while discharging the battery.

People who are grid tied but live in areas with a lot of snow may want their battery to go down to 40% or 20% powering their house but if the panels are covered in snow and they are not getting the PV they need to recharge they may want the Sol-Ark to Auto recharge from the grid for them so they have a full charge for the night.
I believe the next TOU slot will stop the charging if it is not ticked for Grid charge or the battery has already reached the SOC level the next slot is set for. (I have never tried that application in auto mode)

Anyway, if you can help me gain an understanding I'm sure I'm over-thinking it, something I do often. I looked for a video on YouTube but only saw where they kind of glance over it and mention it but leaves questions.

Your pretty much right on track. Your schedule needs refinement for your setup and conditions but you won't know what to tweak until you let it run for a few days, analyze the graphs and do adjustments.

Here is the Same Graph I posted before but I have removed all the Data except Utility power consumption.

As you can see between 10PM and 7AM the batteries have replaced the Grid and the little peaks of grid power at 1:10AM etc happen when more than one AC compressor kicks in at the same time.
During the day PV and Batteries are keeping the Grid usage to Zero.

This was a cloudy weekend so the SOC was not at 100% when it hit 10PM so the batteries started to cut out at about 6:30AM and you can see it started charging them with a bit of solar to get them to 21% while the house ran on the Grid. That tiny dip is when it hit 21% and it started to use battery again and then stopped again. Almost no Grid use except between 5pm and 10pm. My first week of operation was not nearly this clean and I was using a lot more of the utility until I tweaked the TOU.

 

[robby]

Also, I read something in the user manual that I don't know if I should use. Its the "Grid Sell" check box. I don't have a net metering agreement, don't want one, don't want to sell back to the grid, so should I leave this box unchecked? The user manual states this;

Simultaneously select Grid Sell and Limited to Home Load (light bulb) icon on the home screen now includes both the load breaker power and the home’s consumption.

No do not turn on Grid sell, uncheck it.

 

[SolarHead]

Mine is not setup that way, let me know what they say about non critical loads being powered by batteries.

I didn't ask Sol-Ark the question about if "limited to home" setting allowed batteries (using TOU feature) to power the main panel or not. But I found this online which seems to answer our question. I think "limited to load" might be a better option if we want our batteries during TOU to power only the critical loads panel, and not the main panel. Me, I'm okay with my TOU batteries keeping me from pulling from the grid, while using batteries to cover the critical loads panel and send as much as it can (within my TOU setting limit of say 2500w) to the main panel. But, I may consider after seeing things work for a month, changing my seetting to "limited to load" if I decide to just use battery on my critical loads panel. I guess "limited to load" means just that - limits to the load breaker and does not use the bi-directional grid breaker at all.

Here's what I found (read page 41). I think they do a good job explaining things

https://simpliphipower.com/wp-content/uploads/documentation/access/simpliphi-power-sol-ark-access-installation-manual.pdf

 

[SolarHead]

Not trying or wanting to make this thread a mile long but now I have questions about the "charge" column under the TOU settings. I talked with Sol-Ark today and tried to get a better understanding and still have questions. The charge column has a checkbox beside the start and stop of each time slot. Seems to me would be one checkbox for each time slot for a total of 3 checkboxes, not 6 in that column.


So for each time slot, would you put 2 checks (one for start and one for stop) ? It would make more sense to me if each slot was grouped with a black line box around each, and one GridCharge checkbox per slot, but maybe I'm not thinking about it correctly. Maybe its rather you can do from start to start so to speak. Meaning, TOU would be say (for example) start at 10am with 3000w and 50% SOC, then next line or row would be the next CHANGE in function, not necessarily a stop, if this makes sense. So at 12noon with 2000w and 80% SOC (getting more sun so bring up the batteries. If its a series of STARTS (or simply CHANGES) and not a START /STOP, this makes sense. The GridCharge would be a check in the box to say start charging now and then the next change (the next row). Hard to explain this typing but trying to get my point across.

Also, Sol-Ark, the way they explained the charging, when I asked about my theory of conflict, (my theory was say battery gets down to 70%, then it starts charging the battery, the moment its at 71% does the Sol-Ark start pulling from battery and not grid again? Seems like a short endless circle that would cause problems). Sol-Ark said no, its designed so that say your batteries are drawn down to 50%, then the next time slot you have it at 70% , it'll charge the batteries from 50% back up to 70% and stop there, which kind of makes sense. This info tends to make me think the slots above are actually 6 CHANGES (if you want them, if not, enter 100% SOC and dont checkbox GridCharge for those rows).

I think what it may be is my brain versus a programmers brain. Been there before when I took C++ in college. I had to actually make myself think different to pass the class. The programmer is smarter than I am, s/he made 6 rows, they can be start/stops, or all 6 rows being "starts" which is a series of CHANGES throughout the day. And if you want to have one of the changes be a STOP, you choose to do so. Shew. Maybe someone else out there that's thick as I am can learn from this post.

 

[robby]

Not trying or wanting to make this thread a mile long but now I have questions about the "charge" column under the TOU settings. I talked with Sol-Ark today and tried to get a better understanding and still have questions. The charge column has a checkbox beside the start and stop of each time slot. Seems to me would be one checkbox for each time slot for a total of 3 checkboxes, not 6 in that column.
View attachment 87307

I am not sure that I am following when you say 3 Check Boxes. You have 6 time slots and each one has a check box for Grid Charge or Generator Charge for that Time slot.

So for each time slot, would you put 2 checks (one for start and one for stop)

One Check box to enable the feature. The starting and stopping is determined by the Time of Day and the Battery SOC.

? It would make more sense to me if each slot was grouped with a black line box around each, and one GridCharge checkbox per slot,

A Slot in not a vertical column, it is a horizontal Row.

Time | Power | SOC | Grid Charge | Gen Charge |

but maybe I'm not thinking about it correctly. Maybe its rather you can do from start to start so to speak. Meaning, TOU would be say (for example) start at 10am with 3000w and 50% SOC

No it would mean At 10am if the SOC is above 50% then deliver up to 3000w to the load until you get another TOU command. If SOC drops below 50% Stop delivering battery power.

Also, Sol-Ark, the way they explained the charging, when I asked about my theory of conflict, (my theory was say battery gets down to 70%, then it starts charging the battery, the moment its at 71% does the Sol-Ark start pulling from battery and not grid again?

Only if your still within the TOU Time slot.

Example: lets say your last command for the night is
11pm | 3000 | 20% | |
Then the first one in the morning is
9am | 3000W | 35% | |
If the battery gets down to 20% at 7am and there is just a tiny bit of Solar the unit will go to Grid Power and the Tiny Bit of PV will be used to charge the battery and if the battery gets up to 21% by 7:30am it will start powering the house again with battery until it drops back down to 20% and the system will be in a loop until 9am when it will stop because now it has to reach 35% to start using the battery. Also is the Sun comes out enough and can power the house then the battery would also stop cycling.

The solution to this is to set the times so that this does not happen all that often. If you know that you don;t get adequate sunlight until 9am and the battery is most likely to run out at 7am then set a TOU for 7am that says 7am | 3000W | 35% | That way at 7am it will stop using the battery until it has at least 35% SOC.

Seems like a short endless circle that would cause problems). Sol-Ark said no, its designed so that say your batteries are drawn down to 50%, then the next time slot you have it at 70% , it'll charge the batteries from 50% back up to 70% and stop there, which kind of makes sense. This info tends to make me think the slots above are actually 6 CHANGES (if you want them, if not, enter 100% SOC and dont checkbox GridCharge for those rows).

Yep that was what I was saying in the other post,

I think what it may be is my brain versus a programmers brain. Been there before when I took C++ in college. I had to actually make myself think different to pass the class. The programmer is smarter than I am, s/he made 6 rows, they can be start/stops, or all 6 rows being "starts" which is a series of CHANGES throughout the day. And if you want to have one of the changes be a STOP, you choose to do so. Shew. Maybe someone else out there that's thick as I am can learn from this post.

I think the main reason your having problems is that your main battery pack is not hooked up yet and that small one you have cannot last long enough for you to see the TOU cycles in action. Once you see them working it becomes very clear.
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[richwolf]

I am going to set up my inverter in the" limited to home" mode. The CT sensors are supposed to go in between the meter and my main breaker. However I have an older box with a Square D bolt in main breaker that doesn't appear to allow the CT sensors to be clamped around them. They are solid bars and not insulated wires. However my main wire into my service mast prior to going into my meter box are in a good location to clamp the CT sensors around. Would this be an appropriate way of attaching the sensors to my Sol-ark? If not any tips on how I can attach the CT sensors correctly and not back feed power into the utility during power outages? Attached are some pics of my main breaker.

Thank in advance.

 

[Keith Moreau]

I am going to set up my inverter in the" limited to home" mode. The CT sensors are supposed to go in between the meter and my main breaker. However I have an older box with a Square D bolt in main breaker that doesn't appear to allow the CT sensors to be clamped around them. They are solid bars and not insulated wires. However my main wire into my service mast prior to going into my meter box are in a good location to clamp the CT sensors around. Would this be an appropriate way of attaching the sensors to my Sol-ark? If not any tips on how I can attach the CT sensors correctly and not back feed power into the utility during power outages? Attached are some pics of my main breaker.View attachment 88358

Thank in advance.

If you have tied at the service entrance and have set up and tied your Sol-Ark from its "Grid" input/output breaker to your Mains, the Sol-Ark will sense if there is a power there from the utility or not. Because it is UL 1741 A complaint it will never send power to the Grid out of its grid breaker if the grid is down, it will however continue to send power to the Load Breaker if the grid is down. This is regardless of the CT sensor location or installation. I believe the CT sensors should work on the supply side of the meter to measure the current going to and from your main breaker but you should check with Sol-Ark to verify if it will still work accurately.

 

[themizz]

.

 

[richwolf]

If you have tied at the service entrance and have set up and tied your Sol-Ark from its "Grid" input/output breaker to your Mains, the Sol-Ark will sense if there is a power there from the utility or not. Because it is UL 1741 A complaint it will never send power to the Grid out of its grid breaker if the grid is down, it will however continue to send power to the Load Breaker if the grid is down. This is regardless of the CT sensor location or installation. I believe the CT sensors should work on the supply side of the meter to measure the current going to and from your main breaker but you should check with Sol-Ark to verify if it will still work accurately.

Thanks for your response!

From my conversations with Sol-ark I believe that if the grid is down that it will shut off power to my main panel from the Sol-ark unit so as not to back feed into the grid. The CT sensors are critical in this regard as they tell the Sol-ark whether or not there is grid power coming into the main panel. I believe in "limited to home" mode that if the CT sensors are not hooked up or if the grid is down then the Sol-ark will not supply power to the main panel.
It does make sense that I can power my sub panel from the load breaker of the Sol-ark even when the grid power is down.

 

[richwolf]

I did attach my CT sensors for limited to home on the incoming lines from the power company before it gets to my meter and main panel. It has been working great so far. Also got my solar array in on my garage roof and I am using Tigo Rapid shutdown devices which requires one device for every two panels. Also got a Rapid shut down button and it is all working well.
Initially I couldn't get any power coming in from my panels and I was pulling my hair out going through the manual and the Tigo installation instructions with no luck. Then I finally figured out that my switch on the Solark for the solar was turned off! Switched it on and viola it worked!
I also emailed Solark about my TOU setting and they were very quick to get back to me to take care of my questions.
Below are the settings I want for my battery to charge on grid during super off peak hours. I also have a Chevy Bolt that I charge during these hours so I didn't want my battery being drained for that.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

It only has a 63 Amp breaker on the grid side, so the limit would be 63 amps max being backfed into the main panel

No, the limit would be 0.8 x 63 = 50A. 80% of the value of the breaker. The breaker is there for fault protection and they are sized 125% above the maximum circuit rating.

 

[robby]

No, the limit would be 0.8 x 63 = 50A. 80% of the value of the breaker. The breaker is there for fault protection and they are sized 125% above the maximum circuit rating.

Normally true but Sol-Ark will put 15Kw continuous through that Breaker if it is Grid Tied, that is 62.5A

 

[629658]

Ok what you need to put in a time slot that you do not want to be active is 100. If the SOC is set to 100% it means the Sol-Ark will not use the battery.

You say 9pm to 7am you want to a max of 2Kw to be used then it would be like this:

01:00AM 2000 40%
05:00AM 2000 40%
07:00AM 2000 100% (Power does not matter as it will no longer provide battery after 7AM
01:00PM 2000 100% (Still kept off)
05:00PM 2000 100% (Still Kept off)
09:00PM 2000 40% (Unit will now start to use the battery until 7AM)

You can change the times but they must be kept in a linear order from earliest to latest time.
The slot at 1:00PM could be changed at a later date to 11AM and set to 90% that way it can use 10% of your battery to boost daytime usage before being cut at 5PM.
If you have reliable utility service then stopping at 40% seems to be way too conservative, I set mine to 20%.


Yep if your Grid tied it makes a lot more sense to have the Utility power those big loads that only last a few minutes rather than waste your batteries. If 2Kw is the average power use at your house then maybe set it to 2.2Kw and if the pump kicks in and the usage goes up to 5Kw the other 2.8Kw will be drawn from the Utility.

Yes but 2000 Watts is the Max that it can draw until 40% is reached.

Yes.

Yes if it is nighttime. In the day it will use the PV also.

Gridcharge will do as it says. You set the maximum amount of Amps it can pull from the grid and at what SOC you want it to trigger charging and it will charge the battery using the Grid the moment it gets to that SOC and charge it to 100%. Good feature to use if a storm is approaching or is on top of you and you want to get the batteries charged quickly in case of an outage. It's not all that useful in terms of saving power. (there are two separate Menus that have to be set to use Grid Charge)

I get what you mean by conflict. It's just turning that slot in the TOU into a battery charging application also. Useless for some but very important for others.

People who are grid tied but live in areas with a lot of snow may want their battery to go down to 40% or 20% powering their house but if the panels are covered in snow and they are not getting the PV they need to recharge they may want the Sol-Ark to Auto recharge from the grid for them so they have a full charge for the night.
I believe the next TOU slot will stop the charging if it is not ticked for Grid charge or the battery has already reached the SOC level the next slot is set for. (I have never tried that application in auto mode)

Your pretty much right on track. Your schedule needs refinement for your setup and conditions but you won't know what to tweak until you let it run for a few days, analyze the graphs and do adjustments.

Here is the Same Graph I posted before but I have removed all the Data except Utility power consumption.
View attachment 87237
As you can see between 10PM and 7AM the batteries have replaced the Grid and the little peaks of grid power at 1:10AM etc happen when more than one AC compressor kicks in at the same time.
During the day PV and Batteries are keeping the Grid usage to Zero.

This was a cloudy weekend so the SOC was not at 100% when it hit 10PM so the batteries started to cut out at about 6:30AM and you can see it started charging them with a bit of solar to get them to 21% while the house ran on the Grid. That tiny dip is when it hit 21% and it started to use battery again and then stopped again. Almost no Grid use except between 5pm and 10pm. My first week of operation was not nearly this clean and I was using a lot more of the utility until I tweaked the TOU.

I plan to use Grid Charge from 0100-0600 daily as we are on Utility TOU and our rates are between 0.02-0.05 per kWh. I can choose to use our batteries for house loads or I can Grid Sell at our daily High TOU (0.15-0.35/kWh) and make 0.10 kWh credit on our bill. Could make $2.00 a day doing this.