Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[Hedges]

I don't know what "CLP" is.

You could test voltage change under moderate load, e.g. 1500W 120V space heater. That would give an idea of how bad the problem is. What you don't want to do is kill your refrigerator or anything else important.

It appears Neutral is overheating worse than the two Line conductors.
120V loads can suffer brownout, e.g. a motor failing to start. Loads on the other phase then get over-voltage.

Looks like about 6V delta (12V spread), multiply by current draw to get watts dissipated in that connection. If 10A, that's 60W. Kind of high in a small space, but I think most of the heat then conducts along wire before spreading to environment. 60W is what 20' of 2/0 (copper) cable is expected to dissipate, for 60C rise, 90C operating temperature. That explains why yours got hot enough to melt plastic.

One of your graphs mentions 5000W or so, which would be 20A at 240V. Not sure how much imbalance at 120V, which causes current through the more poorly connected neutral wire.

At least, minimize power draw until fixed.

 

[fromport]

I don't know what "CLP" is.

critical load panel

 

[Hedges]

Ah.

Loads on critical load panel will be protected from brownout/over-voltage by Sol Ark.
It may toggle on and off; each time it passes through 120V loads the neutral will have voltage drop.

240V loads on main panel won't affect the voltage drop on neutral, so probably OK to run central A/C.
It looked to me like L1/L2 also melted insulation, but not as badly.

If L1 goes open, then you will get brownout of both 240V loads and 120V loads on L1.

 

[cmack]

lined up the days since commission to show disconnect times

 

[cmack]

I happen to have a meter box with 200A breaker but nothing else. So after that I split 100A to inverters and 200A to main breaker panel. With interlocked breakers, I can feed 100A to inverters and on to breaker panel.

I really like this. What hardware would you recommend to split the 200A feed into 3 outputs? As you described, 200A for main, and 100A each for 2 inverters.

 

[Ampster]

What hardware would you recommend to split the 200A feed into 3 outputs?

I presume he used circuit breakers from the 200 Amp panel's bus bar to feed those other devices.

 

[Hedges]

Here is one example. 3R enclosure, fusible, $350
Would need a pair of fuses as well. Note that performance varies; some multi-element fuses blow faster for large overload and hold off modest motor-starting overloads longer.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-200-Amp-2-Pole-Fusible-General-Safety-Switch-Disconnect/5013278421

I used Polaris connectors to fan out from 200A service to multiple loads:

Manufacturer of Aluminum and Copper set screw connectors for the Utility, OEM, and Contractor and Industrial Markets

https://www.amazon.com/NSI-IPLD500-3B-Insulated-Multi-Cable-Connector/dp/B00KGVMECA/ref=asc_df_B00KGVMECA

In the event one has current from grid plus current backfed from PV inverters, it is important that current through the connector doesn't exceed ratings (might be good for 400A but check specs), also that any panels being fed are protected. In your case, your panel has its own breaker so is protected. If it was a "main lug" panel, it would not be.

Get connectors with extra ports for future expansion. You may be able to slip a smaller cable through (e.g. 2/0 with insulation fits through), so one port has wire exiting both sides; might connect two 100A inverters that way.

But what over-current protection is required on input to SolArk - is the 200A main fuse sufficient? Or do they need smaller individual protection? I have tap from Polaris to 100A fused disconnect, and inside that I have two 2-pole 60A breakers. Other tap is to 200A main breaker panel.

Are the two SolArk in parallel (relying on resistance to split current evenly), or do they feed separate panels? Mine are parallel, and I've gone out of my way to balance them, plus I'm on to my 3rd model of breaker.

Don't forget surge arrestors for anything facing the grid. I put mine after the 100A disconnect.

There may also be boxes availlable with just a main breaker, but not finding that right now. Mine is main breaker plus meter. Others are main breaker plus branch circuit breakers (so you could have 100A or 125A loads, but not 200A to some other box.)

 

[Hedges]

I presume he used circuit breakers from the 200 Amp panel's bus bar to feed those other devices.

Not any more.
I started out that way, 70A breaker in 225A load center (200A main breaker) feeding my PV/battery stuff.
But I was fortunate to have an additional 200A breaker in meter panel.
So I did something like a line-side tap, except is has 200A breaker before it. Now I can have 100A to inverters. And I can have grid feeds inverters feeds main panel, if desired, for grid-backup of everything. Eventual plan is 20% DoD load-shed of that panel (garage), 70% DoD load-shed of panel for house.

 

[Ampster]

Not any more.

I should have known. I did not look to see whose setup he was asking about. Nice explanation.

 

[12kw_2021]

Inverters are power by the batteries ( or solar with some brands ), not the AC lines, so that is likely what you are seeing

No battery or solar tied in yet. ....so I'm guessing that this is normal behavior

 

[Wet1]

Yes I do and already setup with a CLP so a utility disconnect would not be too bad to deal with.


No that feed from the photo is straight from the meter, no breakers in between. Would it be worth the cost to add a 200a breaker between the meter and main? Maybe switch to copper post-breaker?

I just bought this 2 pole 200A breaker from Lowes for $140 delivered (took 2 days) for exactly this purpose. Looks well made and it's outdoor rated if that's required. I'll be installing it to go between my meter and the SA 15k.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-200-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker/50332739

 

[cmack]

Quick update on the grid disconnects:
SA support developed a software fix and applied to my machine last night.
I also swapped my CTs last night, as @fromport pointed out from the charts they were on the wrong legs.

Attached are the graphs prior to the update, and the single graph is from today. As you can see there are no voltage differences (so far).

So I wonder, did the software update or the CT swap fix the voltage issues? Was the software update intended to ignore those voltage differences or did it actually correct them somehow? Is there possibly still a loose neutral (or other problem) and this update is masking the issue?

Either way I am quite impressed with the support I received. I am also curious what you all think about the situation.

 

[Hedges]

Did the software fixes also eliminate melted insulation on aluminum wires?

 

[fromport]

I also swapped my CTs last night, as @fromport pointed out from the charts they were on the wrong legs.

The graphs showed when a device pulled 40+ amps on L1, the voltage on L2 dipped a bit. Hence my suggestion.

Did the software fixes also eliminate melted insulation on aluminum wires?

So unknown devices pulling 40+ amps on either L1 or L2 showed a few volts drop.
But when a 240 load load on both L1 & L2 started with only 2-3 amps, the voltages of L1 & L2 went 10 volts apart, one higher, the other lower.
That does not make sense with anything like a floating neutral ...

 

[cmack]

Did the software fixes also eliminate melted insulation on aluminum wires?

The house is 20 years old and I've only been here for 1, so it could be an issue that was previously remedied. I am not making any assumptions here, still planning on looking into the melted wires.

 

[Hedges]

OK, it is possible the voltage readings were software errors.
Did you ever use a meter and confirm them?

While it is possible someone previously just tightened the screws, not a very professional job to leave visible damage.
I would assume the issue remains, may or may not be severe.

If contact is poor it will vary over time as things heat and cool.

How long a run of wire? I'd rather use copper. However, if it is inaccessible, may not be practical to replace. Normally there is only a short unprotected run from meter outside to breaker inside.

 

[kdub23]

I made a thing… animations and all.


Got the 15K talking along with my WattNodes. Also successfully talking RS232 to my SOK rack batteries. Loving all the data.

 

[Balthazar-B]

Yet more testing of the 15K, this time with an array of EG4-LL batteries. No closed-loop capability yet, but sounds like it's been sort of promised.

Includes a bit of an oopsie in how Engineer775 originally set up his own 15K (due to beta documentation).

 

[Danke]

He has two sets of battery wires feeding the 15k. Is he saying he only used one pair?

 

[Subdood]

I think that's what happened. He tried to push about 240A through a single pole of the double pole 200A breaker and popped it.

An impressive demonstration though. Would be interested to see if he reviews the EG4 6500 inverters and tests them out.

 

[Balthazar-B]

I think that's what happened. Like he said, the two battery busbars aren't connected together, so he tried to push about 240A through a single pole of the double pole 200A breaker and popped it.

An impressive demonstration though. Would be interested to see if he reviews the EG4 6500 inverters and tests them out.

Since he sells them, odds seem pretty good he'd focus on them in a future YouTube video or two...

EG4 6.5kW Off-grid Inverter - Practical Preppers

The EG4 6500 EX-48 is a residential self consumption, multi-functional inverter/ charger, combining the capabilities of an inverter, MPPT solar charger, and a battery charger to offer uninterrupted power support in a single package. $1,249.00 Call us at 864-915-1855 or email us at...

practicalpreppers.com

 

[Subdood]

Since he sells them, odds seem pretty good he'd focus on them in a future YouTube video or two...

EG4 6.5kW Off-grid Inverter - Practical Preppers

The EG4 6500 EX-48 is a residential self consumption, multi-functional inverter/ charger, combining the capabilities of an inverter, MPPT solar charger, and a battery charger to offer uninterrupted power support in a single package. $1,249.00 Call us at 864-915-1855 or email us at...

practicalpreppers.com

Yeah, probably will see something on them, he had a couple of them on the wall, so I imagine he'll post something soon. I think he said he's supposed to get one of the new EG-4 LL's and will use it as a master battery with the older batts.

Since the inverters are UL certified, but not listed, I wonder if he's installed any of them, considering he's a professional installer. He didn't state if he's installed any of either of the EG4 Batteries either, but in his conversation with others, they have.

 

[dsimonl]

I have the same 15k Sol-ark. I checked this morning. There is a bus bar visible under the 200a battery breaker that bridges both poles of the breaker. Thus, they are paralleled on mine.....

Did they remove it on newer builds?

 

[Danke]

I have the same 15k Sol-ark. I checked this morning. There is a bus bar visible under the 200a battery breaker that bridges both poles of the breaker. Thus, they are paralleled on mine.....

Did they remove it on newer builds?View attachment 112297

I think it was worded perhaps confusing to some, my edit in [ ]:

I think that's what happened. Like he said, the two battery busbars aren't connected together, so he tried to push about 240A through a single pole [connected to a busbar] of [a single] the double pole 200A breaker and popped it.

There are two double pole 200A breakers. I believe even though he had cables going to each double pole breaker, only one double pole breaker was in use.

 

[robby]

It's very clear at the 00:51 Sec mark that he only has one positive cable coming from the rack of batteries.
The other wire on the breaker was not connected to the EG4LLs.