Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[robby]

No other inverters do what? Add in a separate inverter pathway for the much higher DC voltage input from the solar panels and tack it onto the battery inverter output numbers? I suppose they don't. It's not a "feature" I am particularly interested in.

Your not, but Knowing that I can power 9KW of my house loads and also deliver 3KW to charge the batteries at the same time is a useful.
It's only a problem for people who don't read or understand Specification sheets and just go by the name.

 

[robby]

Just when you think you got the latest and greatest, Sol-ark is now introducing a 30K and a 60K!

I had known about it for awhile now, but it's for a whole different market.
The battery voltage alone makes it a non starter for me.

 

[Ampster]

It's only a problem for people who don't read or understand Specification sheets and just go by the name.

And my guess is, that is a lot of people base on comments on this forum. Because my Skybox did not have numbers in the product name, I was forced to read the specs. I agree, that is what most people should do.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I see that the 30k and 60k are true 30k and 60k output from batteries. They must've done that to shut up all the people that complain about the naming

 

[Ampster]

I see that the 30k and 60k are true 30k and 60k output from batteries

Now they have you using that useless nomeclature. 30k what from the batteries? I would want to know the capacity of the inverter in kWs not some useless number like 30k from batteries.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Now they have you using that useless nomeclature. 30k what from the batteries? I would want to know the capacity of the inverter in kWs not some useless number like 30k from batteries.

Dang you got me, I usually try pretty hard to use the correct nomenclature.

30kW and 60kW respectively.

 

[Hedges]

30kW? or 30kVA?

Or "30kW into a resistive load"?

It is difficult (and insufficient) to distill everything down to a single number.

An AIO has power from battery, from PV, from generator, maybe from grid, to AC loads, maybe from/to several of those (bidirectional) ports. And certain bottlenecks in between. And derating based on temperature, also voltage conversion.

Similar when it came to computers. "MIPS" was a common metric. (Referred to as "Meaningless Indicator of Processor Speed". Microprocessors are often marketed based on clock speed (equivalent of RPM.) But systems also depend on memory and I/O bandwidth, etc.

So then you get Whetstones, Dhrystones ...

A number of benchmarks for inverters and AOI could be useful.
Hey @Will Prowse , maybe you could develop benchmarks to score equipment:

NoloadWatts / MaxContinuousWatts
DeepWellPumpWatts that can be started
... etc.

With a documented defacto standard test process/setup, you and various other testers and manufacturers could publish numbers related to capability.
Of course, the test loads require much more than computer benchmarking. Rather than just measuring data rate or time to complete, need to repeat the test with a range of motor sizes.

We see some individual demos (starts four DeWalt compressors simultaneously. Does not start one large air compressor.) but not enough to compare brands & models.

 

[Wet1]

Has anyone ever spent $6K and then gotten shocked to find out it's only 9KW?
I don't think I have seen a single post where someone who owns one said they got suckered or fooled. All the owners seem very happy.

I do recall a thread started a couple of months ago in the GD forum by a forum member who bought/installed two EMP hardened SA 12K's (IIRC). He started the thread bashing them because he wasn't getting 24kW out of them. He evidently never read the specs or data sheets!

EDIT:

Sol-Ark not a good company to deal with 12k

This statement is false. “ Sol-Ark currently sells three models of inverter, with names that correspond to the number of kilowatts (kW) of continuous power output. They are called the 5K, 8K, and 12K lines. Sol-Ark plans to begin selling a 15 kW inverter (called the “15K” of course) later in...

diysolarforum.com

 

[robby]

I do recall a thread started a couple of months ago in the GD forum by a forum member who bought/installed two EMP hardened SA 12K's (IIRC). He started the thread bashing them because he wasn't getting 24kW out of them. He evidently never read the specs or data sheets!

EDIT:

Sol-Ark not a good company to deal with 12k

This statement is false. “ Sol-Ark currently sells three models of inverter, with names that correspond to the number of kilowatts (kW) of continuous power output. They are called the 5K, 8K, and 12K lines. Sol-Ark plans to begin selling a 15 kW inverter (called the “15K” of course) later in...

diysolarforum.com

He certainly got a tongue lashing for not reading the Spec sheet.

 

[12kw_2021]

Hello

Well, I have my 10kw Enphase Array up and running, and am now going to connect to the generator input of the 15K Sol-ark gen input as an "ac coupled" power source.

As of now I don't have any batteries connected for backup.

Can anyone explain the "smart power" , "Smart Load" , "Grid sell back" features for my operating case?
Goal is to operate my PV during the day, but NOT sell back power to the grid.

My understanding is the Grid Sell back Watts, entry is a "continuous" setting, and I have a dim recollection of someone here who set it to zero, and it did not work correctly so they set it to 40W, to allow grid sell back of only 40W at any given time.

Current installed meter is not yet bi-directional, so any power sent to grid, I pay for, so obviously I don't want to do that.

Is what I am trying to do (Use my AC coupled solar array), for needed power, but minimizing the amount sold back to the grid realistic, or do I just need to wait until my final approvals are complete, and the correct meter is installed.

Thanks to anyone who has suggestions on how best to program the Sol-Ark for my "prove in" case with no batteries, and no bi-directional meter.

CPU

 

[Hedges]

Is your PV 100% AC coupled?

For operation while grid is down I would expect SolArk to need batteries and/or DC coupled PV array in excess of AC coupled.
Even those inverters that work with 100% AC coupled need batteries to buffer the difference for a few seconds while shifting frequency and match production to loads.

I would think > 50% of PV DC coupled, together with 48V of battery (4x used car batteries) would perform better.
(But I don't have experience with it, can't say how well it performs without battery. Sufficient DC coupled DC could let it work OK.)

 

[12kw_2021]

Is your PV 100% AC coupled?

For operation while grid is down I would expect SolArk to need batteries and/or DC coupled PV array in excess of AC coupled.
Even those inverters that work with 100% AC coupled need batteries to buffer the difference for a few seconds while shifting frequency and match production to loads.

I would think > 50% of PV DC coupled, together with 48V of battery (4x used car batteries) would perform better.
(But I don't have experience with it, can't say how well it performs without battery. Sufficient DC coupled DC could let it work OK.)

Hello
Yes, the 15K Solark accepts 100% of my array, as of now, no DC panels installed, but that is future plan to increase the amount of solar.

I agree with you if/when grid is down, I will need to install batteries to use the ac coupled PV.

My question is when I am grid tied and grid is up, and goal is to minimize the amount of power diverted to grid. (Especially since my local utility has not fully approved my operation.)

This is just for a short period (hoping all the approvals go through quickly).. then I will add batteries and operate the Sol-ark in a more "normal" fashion.

CPU

 

[Hedges]

Sounds like you want SolArk to enforce zero export. It can't throttle down power from AC coupled inverters while on constant 60 Hz from grid. Maybe it can open generator port relay, based on current transformers at grid connection, but might just toggle on and off.

If you're not allowed to export yet, I don't think you can do this without DC coupled PV and/or battery.
If you reallocate some PV panels to DC coupled and configure zero-export, that could work.

"Short period" means minimal value from power produced in the mean time.

If you have a load like pump or A/C, and you install GT PV behind the switch, you could size it so power produced is a bit less than consumed, zero export and the power produced offsets part of load.

 

[12kw_2021]

Sounds like you want SolArk to enforce zero export. It can't throttle down power from AC coupled inverters while on constant 60 Hz from grid. Maybe it can open generator port relay, based on current transformers at grid connection, but might just toggle on and off.

If you're not allowed to export yet, I don't think you can do this without DC coupled PV and/or battery.
If you reallocate some PV panels to DC coupled and configure zero-export, that could work.

"Short period" means minimal value from power produced in the mean time.

If you have a load like pump or A/C, and you install GT PV behind the switch, you could size it so power produced is a bit less than consumed, zero export and the power produced offsets part of load.

Hello... The software does have a "feature" to limit the continuous grid export watts, and I believe the default is 8000W, my plan is to turn it on, set that parameter at 10w or 5w and see what happens. If it just shuts down the array whenever the home load is < the solar available.. I will just terminate the test and wait until I get my two way meter, and all the approvals complete.. and not worry about it. Its been a very long and eventful install, with ground screws too small, two broken hydraulic lines on the two different ditch diggers for the 200 foot home run, but all 30 panels are now officially commissioned and operational, and sitting the bright sunny day in my backyard waiting to make power so I may just be overly excited about playing with my new toy's and saving the planet from imminent death and destruction.

I'll run the test and report back what I discover.. initial promise was that the Solark would/could "gracefully" lower the output of the AC coupled Enphase inverters.... but it sounds like in reality they are either on, or off.

Thanks for the replies...and wish me luck with my local inspector when he arrives at what was supposed to be a simple solar install, and finds a Sol-ark on the basement wall.

CPU

 

[Wet1]

Keep in mind if you have a smart meter on your house, it will probably trigger some type a warning or tamper alert on the meter (which will likely be sent directly to the utility) if you back-feed the grid. If you still have an older analog meter, no real concern in that respect.

 

[Kevbo37]

I've read through all 45 pages of this thread and can't find a definitive answer to this question:
I have a generac 22K whole home generator with dual 100 amp ATS's each feeding a sub panel. If I use a Solark 15K, and tie the output of the ATS to the grid input, AC PV to the generator input, with batteries and DC PV, can the solark periodically use the generator to charge the batteries? If using the generator, how will Solark know when the grid comes back on?

 

[RCinFLA]

I've read through all 45 pages of this thread and can't find a definitive answer to this question:
I have a generac 22K whole home generator with dual 100 amp ATS's each feeding a sub panel. If I use a Solark 15K, and tie the output of the ATS to the grid input, AC PV to the generator input, with batteries and DC PV, can the solark periodically use the generator to charge the batteries? If using the generator, how will Solark know when the grid comes back on?

Make sure you drop out AC input until inverter releases pass-through relays. If you immediately jump between generator to grid or vice-versa you can damage inverter.

A real ATS switch does this delay, but you should still make sure the inverter releases from original AC input source first. Sometimes when you open AC input, like opening input breaker, it can take more time before inverter releases.

Inverter syncs to AC input source. If you immediately jump to an alternate phase AC source while inverter is sync'd to previous source there can be a clash in AC random phasing between AC input sources. Worse case is when the two AC sources are 180 degrees out of phase.

The separate generator input on SolArk does this. It releases pass-through relay first, and it resyncs to generator before closing its relay pass-through relay.

 

[Ampster]

initial promise was that the Solark would/could "gracefully" lower the output of the AC coupled Enphase inverters.... but it sounds like in reality they are either on, or off.

The SolArk should be able to modulate the AC coupled Enphase when the grid is down and the SolArk is providing the 60 Hz signal as @Hedges has already said.said. When the grid is supplying the signal there is no way for the SolArk to modify the grid frequency. This is not the fault of SolArk, my Outback Skybox performs the same way. It is the nature of AC coupling, which only functions when the grid is down or disconnected. That is just the nature of what happens when a hybrid is passing through the AC signal. You may have a setting or mode where the SolArk can disconnect from the grid but without batteries that won't work either. My IQ7s with CTs can be configured for no export. I am not familiar with the options with the IQ8s.

 

[Danke]

“My IQ7s with CTs can be configured for no export.”

I’d like to find out more how to use micros with the 15K and not export. I emailed Sol-Ark and they told me not possible if load isn’t drawing enough.

 

[Hedges]

Can the microinverters you have work with CT to implement zero-export?
It is up to them, not the SolArk, to do that.