Sol-Ark 15K FAILED! - My experience with Sol-Ark ; Their response was underwhelming

[BentleyJ]

I would interpret the above to be 220A is the MAXIMUM current that it can switch just before being destroyed.

Contact Rating is what I would consider Normal Operating guidelines.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I would interpret the above to be 220A is the MAXIMUM current that it can switch just before being destroyed.

Contact Rating is what I would consider Normal Operating guidelines.

Like my DC breakers Ics and Icu. Can break up to 20kA and be reset (service breaking capacity). Can break up to 25kA, but self destructs in the process (ultimate breaking capacity).

 

[rhino]

Yes, what BentleyJ said.. and above 50A means the contacts are likely damaged but could still handle it until the contacts are too damaged to work properly anymore.

 

[niktak11]

I would interpret the above to be 220A is the MAXIMUM current that it can switch just before being destroyed.

Contact Rating is what I would consider Normal Operating guidelines.

Check the chart in the datasheet with the cycle life data. At 220A 830VAC it can do roughly 30k make/break cycles.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Check the chart in the datasheet with the cycle life data. At 220A 830VAC it can do roughly 30k make/break cycles.

So then what's the chart with 50A rating for? That's what doesn't make sense. Conflicting info in their own data sheet.

 

[niktak11]

So then what's the chart with 50A rating for? That's what doesn't make sense. Conflicting info in their own data sheet.

I'm guessing that's the 50k cycle at max voltage spec. The 30k cycle life figure in that table is either the cycle life at nameplate rating (200A) or max current rating (220A).

 

[robby]

So then what's the chart with 50A rating for? That's what doesn't make sense. Conflicting info in their own data sheet.

I can tell you that the only thing an Engineer will be looking at is the Graph.
I headed straight to is and did not even notice the 50A Make or Break.
If the Graph is wrong then they will have serious legal problems.
It specifically states the Current/Voltage and the amount of cycles it can handle under them.

 

[robby]

I'm guessing that's the 50k cycle at max voltage spec

No, the Max volts extends the whole length of the Graph.
It's using just current against the amount of cycles.

 

[Oldphile]

Anyone feel like finding out what UL recognized components states?
File NO. E341422 from the data sheet.

 

[Quattrohead]

This is why we have contactors.

 

[Oldphile]

This is why we have contactors.

Yeah, the relay folks are faking their ability. As an electronics engineer in the 70's and 80's developing products with a lot of relays, I've never seen a relay this small that could switch 200 amp. At best, this relay can switch 50A.

 

[niktak11]

Yeah, the relay folks are faking their ability. As an electronics engineer in the 70's and 80's developing products with a lot of relays, I've never seen a relay this small that could switch 200 amp. At best, this relay can switch 50A.

Except this relay can and does switch more than 50A

 

[SparkyJJO]

Except this relay can and does switch more than 50A

...until it doesn't anymore?

 

[niktak11]

...until it doesn't anymore?

Something else in the unit will fail long before the relay on average

 

[timselectric]

Actually, this one can't and doesn't anymore.

 

[Norwasian]

Except this relay can and does switch more than 50A

I remember that the Titan could and did descend to the Titanic, too.

But I am just a little puzzled about this unit having a weak relay. I had heard that the SolArk models were so much better than the Deye. I heard something about them having much more solid construction, larger terminals, etc. Was it just talk?

 

[Oldphile]

Something else in the unit will fail long before the relay on average

Huh? No, an electromechanical device is the weakest link.

 

[niktak11]

Huh? No, an electromechanical device is the weakest link.

Not when it's rated for many tens of thousands of cycles (probably hundreds of thousands for realistic currents and voltages) and in most cases will only make/break a couple times per year.

 

[robby]

I would interpret the above to be 220A is the MAXIMUM current that it can switch just before being destroyed.

Contact Rating is what I would consider Normal Operating guidelines.

I called and talked to a Tech at Digikey today.
They don't sell this relay but he looked up this Datasheet online. He read the Header and said it's a 200A Relay what's the problem. I asked him to verify, and like me he headed straight down to the Graph and said well it's 200+ Amps at 30K cycles.
I said look up at the Top at the 50 Amps and he looked at it and said it seemed odd that they would put 50A and then show 200A on the Graph. He then pointed out that it is a 200A rated relay and that those ratings are NEVER based on the contacts just being closed.
I agreed and said it's still kind of puzzling.
He looked at it for a bit and then said look at the Contact Data and pointed me to this.

He said well that pretty much lines up with the Graph and I have no clue why they printed 50A for Make and Break but we don't rate relays at capacity they can Carry when they are just closed. They are rated for switching current and voltage.
He pretty much cut it short and asked if he could help with anything else.

Anyone can call DigiKey and ask the same question.
Dial 1-800-344-4539 and Select Option #1
You will get an operator and just ask her to connect you to a Technician who deals with Parts Specifications.
I was on hold for less than 6 minutes.
Please let us know if you get a different answer.

 

[niktak11]

I called and talked to a Tech at Digikey today.
They don't sell this relay but he looked up this Datasheet online. He read the Header and said it's a 200A Relay what the problem. I asked him to verify, and like me he headed straight down to the Graph and said well it's 200+ Amps at 30K cycles.
I said look up at the Top at the 50 Amps and he looked at it and said it seemed odd that they would put 50A and then show 200A on the Graph. He then pointed out that it is a 200A rated relay and that those ratings are NEVER based on the contacts just being closed. I agreed and said it's still kind of puzzling.
He looked at it for a bit and then said look at the Contact Data and pointed me to this.
View attachment 279764
He said well that pretty much lines up with the Graph and I have no clue why they printed 50A for Make and Break but we don't rate relays at capacity they can Carry when they are just closed. They are rated for switching current and voltage.
He pretty much cut it short and asked if he could help with anything else.

Anyone can call DigiKey and ask the same question.
Dial 1-800-344-4539 and Press Option #1
You will get an operator and just ask her to connect you to a Technician who deals with Parts Specifications.
I was on hold for less than 6 minutes.
Please let us know if you get a different answer.

I see a 50k electrical cycle life figure in the datasheets for a lot of different relays so I'm guessing they had to put 50A there because it can't do the full 200A for that many cycles (at 830VAC).

 

[Brucey]

I talked to him today and he said that he was very aware of the problem and that they are working to rectify it.
As I suspected, he said a lot of the senior CS people have been reassigned to work on the Industrial side and that has left a serious Gap in the amount of people on the Tier 3 residential CS side. He said they are in the process of hiring and training more people but that it would take time to get enough Tier 1 & 2 CS staff to the level of the Tier 3 people who got transferred.

The idea that any sol-ark employee would tell you this with the knowledge that you would then share it with the world at large here seems absurd on the face of it. Just massive reputational damage. But I guess this plays into your delusion that the costco deal was for something other than a four canopy pilot deployment.

We can probably put this in the same "rock solid info" category as the solark MID device which never came about, or sol-ark optimizer page redirecting to homepage due to web redesign etc. It's always excuses from the head engineer, your solark buddy etc. It's all nonsense imo.

 

[robby]

I see a 50k electrical cycle life figure in the datasheets for a lot of different relays so I'm guessing they had to put 50A there because it can't do the full 200A for that many cycles (at 830VAC).

Not sure but the Chinese are not the best at documentation
Here is one from the same company that is just slightly bigger that is designed for 270A and they use the similar Make and Break numbers but they then specify that the Max Break at 275A /1000V or 275Kw for 30K Cycles.
270 Amp Relay

I have 250A 100V rated relays in my eFlex batteries. (I think they are 100V?)
They are less than half the Size of the 200A one in the Sol-Ark and made by a different company.

 

[Oldphile]

Here is a data sheet from OMRON, a company that innovates, not copy like a Chinese company. This is a data sheet that I believe. 50A make and break rating.

 

[seneysolar]

I called and talked to a Tech at Digikey today.
They don't sell this relay but he looked up this Datasheet online. He read the Header and said it's a 200A Relay what's the problem. I asked him to verify, and like me he headed straight down to the Graph and said well it's 200+ Amps at 30K cycles.
I said look up at the Top at the 50 Amps and he looked at it and said it seemed odd that they would put 50A and then show 200A on the Graph. He then pointed out that it is a 200A rated relay and that those ratings are NEVER based on the contacts just being closed.
I agreed and said it's still kind of puzzling.
He looked at it for a bit and then said look at the Contact Data and pointed me to this.
View attachment 279764
He said well that pretty much lines up with the Graph and I have no clue why they printed 50A for Make and Break but we don't rate relays at capacity they can Carry when they are just closed. They are rated for switching current and voltage.
He pretty much cut it short and asked if he could help with anything else.

Anyone can call DigiKey and ask the same question.
Dial 1-800-344-4539 and Select Option #1
You will get an operator and just ask her to connect you to a Technician who deals with Parts Specifications.
I was on hold for less than 6 minutes.
Please let us know if you get a different answer.

Alright I have a stupid question. Doesn't the 50A make/break rating only apply to 830VAC? Thats a pretty high voltage to break. I suspect the Amp rating for make/break would be higher at the lower voltage of 120/240vac. Isn't that why these companies chart it out on a graph in the first place? Because it changes with voltage?

 

[solar8484]

the Max Break at 275A /1000V or 275Kw for 30K Cycles.

Wouldn't believe that especially when similar OMRON models with more explicit specs show only 10 cycles at similar power.

Here is a data sheet from OMRON, a company that innovates, not copy like a Chinese company. This is a data sheet that I believe. 50A make and break rating.