Sol-Ark 15K FAILED! - My experience with Sol-Ark ; Their response was underwhelming

[jharrell]

Size comparison of Churod 830v to 1000v from a Gridboss, 200 and 270 amp 1000v Churod are physically same size would be interesting to know the internal difference:

 

[glandpuck]

I have a 15K that I have not yet installed. If someone wants to fund me, i will have the relays removed and tested by a reputable lab. Then we will know for sure just how dependable and at what amps these relays can be relied upon.

In our home, my max kWh energy usage in a month is about 13,000 watts or like 55 amps. Guess I'm safe for 30,000 days?

 

[jharrell]

In our home, my max kWh energy usage in a month is about 13,000 watts or like 55 amps. Guess I'm safe for 30,000 days?

Still can't figure out what grid event would boost my current to 200 amps and cause a relay disconnect, every grid event I see causes the volts and amps go DOWN.

I guess in a lightning strike the relay might get torched.

I really want to hook up an oscilloscope and monitor the grid and look at this stuff low level, closest I found anyone else looking at this is this Swedish? guy scoping how his Chinese inverter synchs on transfer:

 

[solar8484]

What whole home back up system has better relays for 200 amp ups grade transfer? Franklin? Tesla? Enphase?, 4 Victrons in parallel?

Tesla and Enphase use physically much larger and robust contactors that I would trust much more for carrying/breaking/making 200A more than a few cycles. Here is an example 200A contactor highlighted in red for Enphase:

 

[jharrell]

Tesla and Enphase use physically much larger and robust contactors that I would trust much more for carrying/breaking/making 200A more than a few cycles. Here is an example 200A contactor highlighted in red for Enphase:

Yeah its a contactor 2 poles, the Churods are doubled up since they a single pole relays, I also believe Tesla and Enphase don't do fast switchover they let the grid drop then start back up with seconds? of downtime, maybe they are being much more conservative here.

 

[jharrell]

Tesla and Enphase use physically much larger and robust contactors that I would trust much more for carrying/breaking/making 200A more than a few cycles. Here is an example 200A contactor highlighted in red for Enphase:

Here is the same image with 2x 200a 1000vac Churods scaled to match size roughly at 6.2 cm (2.4 inches), not a lot of size difference unless there is bunch under that cover.

 

[sunsurfer]

Guess I'm safe for 30,000 days?

If you are using an HF inverter?...........NO

 

[sunsurfer]

I am a fan of a LF Magnum or Victron as anyone else but they are being superseded by HF designs for a reason. The LF is operating at battery voltage but at grid frequency using a large transformer to step up to grid voltage.



If you have HVDC from solar then you don't need a giant transformer to step down to grid voltage so your typical grid tied no battery inverter is HF without the need for the step up front end from battery voltage. In a AIO with HVDC mppt's then its makes more sense to use a HF front end to boost battery voltage to HVDC mix with solar HVDC then invert down to grid voltage or reverse it for battery charging. Once you go to HV batteries like a EV (Sol-Ark 30k and 60k) its makes even less sense, but even at 48v the HF design makes more sense with solar for an AIO. These big HF inverters for whole home backup have large capacitor banks on the HVDC bus to do what the large transformer inductance does in the LF design.

Sounds like a very complicated way to make power.

 

[NC_hydro]

Midnight Solar will.

 

[jharrell]

If you are using an HF inverter?...........NO

Whats does HF or LF have to do with the transfer relay durability?

Sounds like a very complicated way to make power.

Reality has a surprising amount of detail.

 

[jharrell]

Midnight Solar will.

Their new 11kw AIO is HF and uses Churods with only 100A pass through:

 

[niktak11]

Currently, the way I see it is that all of these units (doesn't matter the brand) have under-spec relays that have a good chance of getting cooked when they switch on/off during anomalies with the grid. Until it's proven otherwise, I can only assume the only safe level of current while expecting a reasonable life span is 50A through these relays. So prioritize buying the one that has the easiest to replace relays by the user if you draw more than 50A lol...

You can assume that the datasheet is correct. Unless you are right and all the engineers at sol-ark, deye, EG4, midnite solar, etc were tricked.

 

[quantum`]

Contactors instead of relays would be a sign of quality.

I wonder what EG4 uses in their 1*kPV's? SunGold in their SGN's?

 

[jharrell]

Contactors instead of relays would be a sign of quality.

I wonder what EG4 uses in their 1*kPV's? SunGold in their SGN's?

​

As I said Eg4 18kpv uses 830v 200a Churods which are smaller than the 1000vac in the Sol-Ark, Sungold looks like Churods but not sure, similar relays.

Are these things relays or contactors? Whats the difference? They are NO without NC contacts and high amperage but only single pole, now define the difference, I normally think of contactors as double or triple pole, but there are DP relays too, relays usually have NO and NC pins and are much smaller amperage rating. It's a very vague terminology difference that means little, it's an electromagnetic switch with a rated capacity, give it whatever name you want.

 

[jharrell]

18kpv Churods from another thread:

 

[niktak11]

Daddy Tanuki approves this message . Sigineer HF or LF same for YIY for the cost of SolArk you could buy two of sigineer or YIY LF bruisers and a spare…

They make hybrid AIOs now?

 

[sunsurfer]

Whats does HF or LF have to do with the transfer relay durability?



Reality has a surprising amount of detail.

Choose your reality...wisely.

 

[quantum`]

Are these things relays or contactors? Whats the difference? They are NO without NC contacts and high amperage but only single pole, now define the difference, I normally think of contactors as double or triple pole, but there are DP relays too, relays usually have NO and NC pins and are much smaller amperage rating. It's a very vague terminology difference that means little, it's an electromagnetic switch with a rated capacity, give it whatever name you want.

Terminology, matters.

Teslas use two contactors in the pack, one for + and one for -. A contactor can be SPST, DPST, or TPST, depending on the voltage. Teslas run 400v so they have to be separate. In another life I was the original Tesla hacker. (Oops my cert's expired)

IMHO a relay has no business around 200a, and the Churod CHAR-112A200 is a relay. Bad news it's in EG4. Inconel is what's needed for the making surfaces.

 

[jharrell]

Terminology, matters.

According to your link these are contactors since relays only go up to 20 amps…

 

[Quattrohead]

Are these things relays or contactors? Whats the difference?

Generally -
Relays are enclosed in a cover and have a pivot bar with a single contact on the end. ./.
A contactor is usually open framed and has a plunger with a contact on each end. .-. You can often manually operate a contactor by pressing the exposed plunger, relays hardly ever have this ability.

 

[quantum`]

lol, are you trying to pick a fight? The Classroom isn't up with the latest in Chinese technology.

Churod says they're relays, so they are relays, Ok? I've proven it right up there. No inconel. (Gah, where's the middle finger?!)

 

[Quattrohead]

According to your link these are contactors since relays only go up to 20 amps…

Yeah the voltage or current do not differentiate between the two, as evidenced in this thread.

 

[quantum`]

Generally -
Relays are enclosed in a cover and have a pivot bar with a single contact on the end. ./.
A contactor is usually open framed and has a plunger with a contact on each end. .-. You can often manually operate a contactor by pressing the exposed plunger, relays hardly ever have this ability.

Ya, you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[Kornbread]

lol, are you trying to pick a fight? The Classroom isn't up with the latest in Chinese technology.

Churod says they're relays, so they are relays, Ok? I've proven it right up there. No inconel. (Gah, where's the middle finger?!)

There it is

 

[rhino]

This would all be a lot easier if Sol-Ark and everyone else would just provide failure rates for their equipment and cause