Sol-Ark 15K Rejected by PG&E in California

[curiouscarbon]

let them consume insolation...

the sun doesn't even ask for anything back.

as long as a solar system poses no inherent danger to life... let it operate.

no human has valid claim to impede access to the sky and sun for another human... shade is for rest

plants and leaves compete for canopy space and sun.

 

[Goboatingnow]

let them consume insolation...

the sun doesn't even ask for anything back.

as long as a solar system poses no inherent danger to life... let it operate.

no human has valid claim to impede access to the sky and sun for another human... shade is for rest

plants and leaves compete for canopy space and sun.

View attachment 120333

I agree no one is going to stop you using solar . Wiring it to your mains. That’s a different story.

 

[David S]

A perspective not shared by many , state run systems are like anything somevate great some are mediocre. Simply being commercial or privately owned doesn’t mean it’s well run either

Simply being commercial certainly does not guarantee well run anything. Capitalism is a peculiar system in that it requires INFORMED consumers that make choices with their dollars. Government run services or government regulated monopolies are not a substitute for informed consumers.

WRT government being good at things, please provide me with a single example where government is best in class at what they do. Don't waste your time, there isn't one. They're not good at the things they should do: military, interstate commerce, etc... Nor are they good at things that they have decided they should do: education, welfare, etc...

No wait, I'm wrong, they're actually fairly good at taxation. Go figure....

 

[Goboatingnow]

Simply being commercial certainly does not guarantee well run anything. Capitalism is a peculiar system in that it requires INFORMED consumers that make choices with their dollars. Government run services or government regulated monopolies are not a substitute for informed consumers.

WRT government being good at things, please provide me with a single example where government is best in class at what they do. Don't waste your time, there isn't one. They're not good at the things they should do: military, interstate commerce, etc... Nor are they good at things that they have decided they should do: education, welfare, etc...

No wait, I'm wrong, they're actually fairly good at taxation. Go figure....

Finland is very good at education for example ( one of the worlds best ) , many Gov run health systems are in the top 10 health outcomes.
Amsterdam excellent public transport system is very good
French SNCF is excellent as is AirBus

U.K.s national health was till recently , excellent

Many examples of excellent Gov run systems. Lots more if you look carefully

Actually many states are not good at collecting taxes go figure.

 

[Balthazar-B]

@Greg-G , I just saw a note from a PG&E Associate Interconnection Manager in San Francisco indicating that the 208v and 240v Sol-Ark 15k inverters have both been SB1 confirmed and appear to be kosher with the utility. Has the situation that you described when you started this topic been resolved positively by your local PG&E officials?

 

[Greg-G]

@Greg-G , I just saw a note from a PG&E Associate Interconnection Manager in San Francisco indicating that the 208v and 240v Sol-Ark 15k inverters have both been SB1 confirmed and appear to be kosher with the utility. Has the situation that you described when you started this topic been resolved positively by your local PG&E officials?

Not as of yet. Knowing that the CEC releases updates on the 21st (or a day later) when I checked this evening no update there yet. Sol-Ark indicated that they had been in touch with both the CEC and PG&E and the everthing was resubmitted and in the CEC que for approval. Maybe I should reply to the NEMs group and see where they are with this. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[jfh88888]

I really wonder if we will see that day. It does seem very possible.

Agenda 2030 cometh.

 

[Greg-G]

Received Permisdion to Operate from PG&E today! I'll get them up and running!

 

[Balthazar-B]

Received Permisdion to Operate from PG&E today! I'll get them up and running!

Just curious, line side, or load side.

 

[timselectric]

Just curious, line side, or load side.

Line side connects to the grid.

 

[Balthazar-B]

Line side connects to the grid.

That's right. My question is whether any of the 15k inverters that @Greg-G is installing are located downstream of the meter or of the main load panel. Or put another way, will he be leveraging the 15k's internal transfer switch and 200A passthrough or not.

ETA: PG&E has documented acceptable ways to tie an inverter to the line side of a residential solar installation (of course the local AHJ will also need to grant approval). This can have some advantages for whole-house ESS. I'm interested in any schematics including 15k inverters that pass muster in PG&E's domain.

 

[timselectric]

I would hope that they are using it. They paid a lot of money for it.
I can't imagine that PG$E cares how it's connected. As long as it's behind the meter and a disconnect.
And of course, is on their list.

 

[Balthazar-B]

I would hope that they are using it. They paid a lot of money for it.
I can't imagine that PG$E cares how it's connected. As long as it's behind the meter and a disconnect.
And of course, is on their list.

Well, they do:

https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/customerservice/nonpgeutility/electrictransmission/handbook/TD-6999B-048.pdf

They have tons of rules and regulations online if you're wanting to cure your insomnia.

 

[timselectric]

Well, they do:

https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/customerservice/nonpgeutility/electrictransmission/handbook/TD-6999B-048.pdf

They have tons of rules and regulations online if you're wanting to cure your insomnia.

Really?
Good grief. Just another reason to stay away from the weirdness that is California. They have forgotten that they are supposed to be part of the land of the free.

 

[Greg-G]

The Sol-Ark 15k installed are on the load side of the meter. And yes, we are using the transfer switch to their capabilities for whole home (property) both of these installations already had whole home back-up generators. I used the generators transfer switch box as a junction box and as a battery charger. It makes for a very easy wiring point to connect the line and load to the Sol-Ark bypassing the generators xfer switch.
I stoll have to work on the two wire start from the Sol-Ark to the generator. The customer I activated today is happy to be up and running.

 

[SolarDV]

Where in NC?
Duke energy has been amazing to work with on my setups...

So you're just a little west of Charlotte...are you using the same Duke Energy that services the Research Triangle area?

My son wants to install a Sol-Ark 15K with LiFePo4 batteries and NO EXPORT but only wants to use Duke Energy's power on cloudy/rainy days if he doesn't produce enough from his array. Does he just need to inform Duke Energy that he is setting up his inverter for zero export and they will forgo any fees or agreement? Or are they likely still going to charge a monthly fee?

I've been told that many installers just require Net Metering so as to have as little conflict with Duke Energy as possible. If your answer is that they will still require a fee, does that mean the only way to avoid intrusion by Duke Energy is to go off-grid and maybe use a transfer switch that physically disconnects the grid ("break-before-make.") when using solar or batteries?
How do you handle Duke Energy in regards to an inverter with no export?
Do you know of any statutes or rules deal with this issue?

 

[Ampster]

Does he just need to inform Duke Energy that he is setting up his inverter for zero export and they will forgo any fees or agreement?

I am of the belief that we have the right to generate our own power as long as we do it safely, which to me means a building permit. The rules may be different in your son's state. I do not know of any statutes that deals with that issue. When I asked a building inspector he said whatever I did was between my utility and me. I did tell a lineman about what I was doing so I arbitralily felt I gave them notice but verbal notice may not count.

 

[SolarDV]

I am of the belief that we have the right to generate our own power as long as we do it safely, which to me means a building permit. The rules may be different in your son's state. I do not know of any statutes that deals with that issue. When I asked a building inspector he said whatever I did was between my utility and me. I did tell a lineman about what I was doing so I arbitralily felt I gave them notice but verbal notice may not count.

I'm in Florida, but my son is in NC near Research Triangle Park.
My son's wife is a strict "rule follower" so, IF there's a rule it, WILL be followed!
I just don't see them needlessly paying monthly fees if it can be avoided. It's like having to pay an HOA...I'm not doing it.

The best case scenario would be to run primarily on solar during the day, and on batteries at night, supplementing with grid power both day and night only as needed and NOT exporting ANY, EVER, to the grid.
But IF they still require a NM agreement, that means monthly fees, so that's a total no go.

The alternative would be to go totally off grid or use a physical transfer switch so there's no way Duke Energy can claim the inverter MIGHT backfeed the grid.

Supervstech said: "Duke energy has been amazing to work with...." so maybe he will have some insight?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

So you're just a little west of Charlotte...are you using the same Duke Energy that services the Research Triangle area?

My son wants to install a Sol-Ark 15K with LiFePo4 batteries and NO EXPORT but only wants to use Duke Energy's power on cloudy/rainy days if he doesn't produce enough from his array. Does he just need to inform Duke Energy that he is setting up his inverter for zero export and they will forgo any fees or agreement? Or are they likely still going to charge a monthly fee?

I've been told that many installers just require Net Metering so as to have as little conflict with Duke Energy as possible. If your answer is that they will still require a fee, does that mean the only way to avoid intrusion by Duke Energy is to go off-grid and maybe use a transfer switch that physically disconnects the grid ("break-before-make.") when using solar or batteries?
How do you handle Duke Energy in regards to an inverter with no export?
Do you know of any statutes or rules deal with this issue?

I’m in NC but have Energy United.

EU doesn’t require an agreement if you are not pushing power back to them.

However if they catch you pushing power back to them they will let you know.

If you have a Net metering agreement with EU it’s $45 service fee and .03-.04 kw payback so not advantageous.

Best thing for him to call them or go on their website and find out.

@Supervstech has DUKE so he can give you the particulars about if they care or not.

 

[realpinochet]