Probably because they don’t use UL down there.
Sol-Ark 15k will only invert 13k of DC PV to AC
- Thread starter Clint-L
- Start date
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I would unwatch this thread but I just got my popcorn and the entertainment value is something.
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
never left..
not being a dick, valid question.
rather simple, the 15k is the same device as my 12k in my opinion
so as this topic started out as a design/firmware flaw , it could have a baring on my inverters aswell , so that makes it interesting for me.
that this topic has made a turn right, well that seems to happen a lot as of late
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629658
Guest
I see the flies have arrived. Such unpleasant little creatures. Just flying around making everyone’s life just a little more miserable.
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629658
Guest
The only one that seems to care is you.
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629658
Guest
Really you certainly are living in your own world. A blind man can see how much everyone enjoys you. But please continue on.
robby
Photon Vampire
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 4,118
Well Clint I asked the Installer down the road from me if he had any pictures of the Sol-Ark 15K doing 15K of Power from PV and he said yes.
He said he thought he had some video and pictures from one of his first 15K installations but he would have to look for it on his phone and get it to me.
Well it took a few weeks but he edited and uploaded it to Youtube. He sent me the link this evening.
So here is your proof that a Sol-Ark 15K can handle more than 15K of Power.
So now you have a graph of dual Sol-Ark 15ks producing 30Kw of Power and proof of a single Sol-Ark 15K doing over 15K.
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
OK great. Can we stop all this nonsense now and get back to bonding screws. 
It’s unfortunate that my thread was hijacked with a lot of arguing. I’ve not been in here for a bit. Just very busy and whatnot.
@robby thanks for the graph.
Updates to what the thread was originally about. ? ——-
disclaimer - I’m still not getting 15k, but Sol-Ark has continued to work with me on the issue. Everything has been a bit stalled out right now because I’ve just not had time.
I added a few micro inverters that are feeding in to the smart load input side of the Sol-Ark 15k. (Just for fun ?). They are proving useful when looking at historical data. For example, today I notice the DC-PV would drop out a few times and ramp back up to that infamous 13,200~~ or so. When that is seen on the graph, the micros are still producing at almost max power.
Gosh, I’ve checked all the wiring, been on phone so much. I may get some more micros and just keep pulling panels off of the DC until I’m not flatlining and losing generation.
The thing that is so darn puzzling is this ——- I can unhook any “one” of the three arrays and the other two will go ahead and get up to 12 to 13k or so. Or I can only leave any “one” single array hooked up and it will get up to 6200 watts or so. (Each array is 6400. Well, one array is a little less because I pulled some panels out and put micros on them. Lol. I was kind of like “that will fix their little wagon…”. Hah.
Anyways, I thought I’d check in even though I’m not providing much info today.
Todays graph attached.
@robby thanks for the graph.
Updates to what the thread was originally about. ? ——-
disclaimer - I’m still not getting 15k, but Sol-Ark has continued to work with me on the issue. Everything has been a bit stalled out right now because I’ve just not had time.
I added a few micro inverters that are feeding in to the smart load input side of the Sol-Ark 15k. (Just for fun ?). They are proving useful when looking at historical data. For example, today I notice the DC-PV would drop out a few times and ramp back up to that infamous 13,200~~ or so. When that is seen on the graph, the micros are still producing at almost max power.
Gosh, I’ve checked all the wiring, been on phone so much. I may get some more micros and just keep pulling panels off of the DC until I’m not flatlining and losing generation.
The thing that is so darn puzzling is this ——- I can unhook any “one” of the three arrays and the other two will go ahead and get up to 12 to 13k or so. Or I can only leave any “one” single array hooked up and it will get up to 6200 watts or so. (Each array is 6400. Well, one array is a little less because I pulled some panels out and put micros on them. Lol. I was kind of like “that will fix their little wagon…”. Hah.
Anyways, I thought I’d check in even though I’m not providing much info today.
Todays graph attached.
Attachments
I see you have a few times when PV input power and AC output power basically drops to 0. While at these times the microinverters are still working just fine. Very similar to what's I've seen on the 12k.
These short term drops may be happening to other Sol-Ark installations. If the owners don't look at the charts they will go un-noticed or perceived as a cloud passing by. Only people who have access to several PowerView accounts would be able to confirm or deny this is happening.
In my case I have a duplicate identical system - the only difference is the inverter is a SunnyBoy. It's easy to spot problems when you have a 'control group'. You are now using the micro inverters as your control group.
Even though Sol-Ark helps with these problems, it eats up too much of your time.
These short term drops may be happening to other Sol-Ark installations. If the owners don't look at the charts they will go un-noticed or perceived as a cloud passing by. Only people who have access to several PowerView accounts would be able to confirm or deny this is happening.
In my case I have a duplicate identical system - the only difference is the inverter is a SunnyBoy. It's easy to spot problems when you have a 'control group'. You are now using the micro inverters as your control group.
Even though Sol-Ark helps with these problems, it eats up too much of your time.
themizz
tinkering
With all due respect to everyone who wants to rehash this argument over and over between Deye and Sol-Ark and who developed what.
I think we should take it from the horses mouth here: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sunsynk-max-16-kw.35458/post-498891 As @Keith Gough states:
"Not quite correct, the inverter was developed with 3 companies Solar Ark, Sunsynk and Deye
That’s why we have three completely different operating systems"
Anybody can interpret that as they will, but my interpretation would be that the base level firmware is developed by the manufacturer (Deye) and Sol-Ark, Deye and Sunsynk add UI and feature enhancements as they wish. The base feature set and capabilities are pretty much identical on each unit from what I can tell.
In terms of the pricing argument, the fair comparison would be Sunsynk vs Solark as they both have English language support, engineering and warranty.
Here is a 16KW Sunsynk for example: https://www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za/product/sunsynk-16kw-single-phase-inverter/ ...comes out to around $4,000 US.
I think we should take it from the horses mouth here: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/sunsynk-max-16-kw.35458/post-498891 As @Keith Gough states:
"Not quite correct, the inverter was developed with 3 companies Solar Ark, Sunsynk and Deye
That’s why we have three completely different operating systems"
Anybody can interpret that as they will, but my interpretation would be that the base level firmware is developed by the manufacturer (Deye) and Sol-Ark, Deye and Sunsynk add UI and feature enhancements as they wish. The base feature set and capabilities are pretty much identical on each unit from what I can tell.
In terms of the pricing argument, the fair comparison would be Sunsynk vs Solark as they both have English language support, engineering and warranty.
Here is a 16KW Sunsynk for example: https://www.solarwaysuppliers.co.za/product/sunsynk-16kw-single-phase-inverter/ ...comes out to around $4,000 US.
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What you are missing is UL listed and split phase. Without both off grid applications only. So the Sol Ark is your only option at this time within the USA for grid connected applications. So what dollar value should be assigned to that as well as 24/7 tech support and 10 yr warranty. Roughly $3000 price difference. FTC alone that brings price difference to $2000 or less so the question is is it worth $2000 for the Sol Ark. Those of us that have them the answer is obviously yes.
themizz
tinkering
That is not really the point I was making. Yes of course those aren't split phase or UL listed.
The point is Sunsynk has gone through similar certification processes in the many countries they serve and also provides warranty support and tech support, yet they are able to sell (presumably at a profit ) the same unit (the cost of the hardware to make split phase vs single phase is nominal)
The price differential between the sunsynk and solark can only really be explained by non-market (lawyers) forces.
If people want to pay solark a premium for the benefits you listed they should be able to but to exclude Deye from the US market is hurting consumers.
Sunsynk goes head to head with Deye in the markers they sell in and charges a small premium for what would assume is their superior warranty and support vs Deye's. If Sunsynk can operate in a competitive environment profitability there is no reason Solark can't either.
The intellectual property arguments to exclude Deye sale in the US seems bogus to me in light of what @Keith Gough has publicly stated on this forum.
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629658
Guest
Questioning the reasons is beyond my concern. If Deye and Sunsync which to go through the UL certification process I guess they could but it costs time and money. For whatever reason they have elected not to do so. Sol Arks marketing is completely in line with other manufacturers. Have you looked at overseas pharmaceuticals? At least 10 times more expensive in the USA than overseas for the same meds. So I tend to be a big picture person and I have too much on my plate to sweat Sol Arks costs or marketing. At the end of the day did I want to pay another $2000 for the Sol Ark? Not especially but I recognized the value and did it because I wanted the features they offered. But I didn’t spend hours in a forum complaining about it. I either pulled the trigger or I didn’t. I did because the alternative was not an option for us.
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The world is as it is I change the things I can and accept the things I can’t. But those of us that have Sol Arks for the most part love them. Those that do not own Sol Arks cannot seem to accept the realities of the situation and spend a tremendous amount of their time rehashing the same dead horse the Sol Ark costs too much and I won’t pay it which is fine but others are standing in line to scoop them up. So if you choose not to purchase one fine great grand and we support your decision but most of us have had our fill of Sol Ark is too expensive. We would simply ask you to accept our decision to purchase the Sol Ark. I mean amortization on that additional $2000 over the life of the inverter is what $120 a year? So you’re going to install a less featured inverter over $10 a month? I mean I guess if it bothers you that much then yes but I will gladly pay it and use the additional features and amenities. I would say you are throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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We ought to try and keep this thread clean for discussion of the PV production issue/research as to why PV-DC maxes at just over 13.2kw and why when we first hit full sun at hit that threshold in the mornings we see the PV drop down to nearly zero and ramp back up several times. Then it seems to stabilize.
This is the problems I’ve been working on for 6 months now.
Sol-Ark replaced the inverter. The newer 15k model did have lugs instead of screws like a car steep power amp - ??. Otherwise it is the same.
What was brought up earlier is yes the micro inverters I’ve added gives me a helpful control group. I’ll see the PV- DC drop to zero during that first full sun around 11:40am currently and the micros are just running full force. Once things stabilize the unit produces a clipped max PV-DC of 13.2~Kw.
I’m about to the point of just taking one of my three arrays piping it in to a different inverter like a UL certified Growatt and just accepting the fact that I cannot get what they advertise for the 15k.
If I pull one array out of the three (doesn’t matter which one) they other two can produce around 12kw. Each of the three arrays are max @6.4kw each. This is probably my next project I suppose. I’ll just send one array until a growatt or something and put the AC output of that new inverter going in the smart / micro AC input on the Sol-Arc 15k. Then I’ll just have to keep my chin up and be past this.
All in all, I really do think the Sol-Arcs are good, but this 15k seems to have been branded something that it cannot do, at least not in my use case with my panels.
Sol-Arc’s last thing was they wanted pictures of my panel install, yet I can prove each array can output around 6.2kw or so with full sun and the throttle is obviously not a panel / array issue.
In the end, I’m disappointed about the money spent and not being able to really do what was promised. Im kind of stuck with it at this point.
My last thoughts are this —- if I did this all over again, I feel like I would probably still buy the 15k, but I’d have the expectation to treat some of their ratings like an old off brand car stereo amp that says 1,000watts, but yet in the end we know that it’s only maybe 75watts RMS at a reasonable THD level. ??????
If anything changes I’ll let the group know and I’ll continue to monitor the thread.
It would be super nice if we didn’t continue to clog this thread with the other topics. We could start a new thread? ???
I’m all about let’s talk about it, but hopefully we can keep our topics relevant to each thread. Not trying to complain, I’m just thinking about other folks researching and maybe having the same issue and they try to read through our thread here and see a bunch of us not only arguing, but arguing about things completely unrelated.
I want to thank everyone that helped me through all of the troubleshooting and I will even thank Sol-ark for trying even though they failed to deliver a fix.
On a positive note, since I believe several folks think it’s a software issue (including me) I’ll keep my hopes up that they will magically correct the issue soon. The 15k has only been out for like 8 months or something. I bought my original as soon as they hit the distribution channel.
This is the problems I’ve been working on for 6 months now.
Sol-Ark replaced the inverter. The newer 15k model did have lugs instead of screws like a car steep power amp - ??. Otherwise it is the same.
What was brought up earlier is yes the micro inverters I’ve added gives me a helpful control group. I’ll see the PV- DC drop to zero during that first full sun around 11:40am currently and the micros are just running full force. Once things stabilize the unit produces a clipped max PV-DC of 13.2~Kw.
I’m about to the point of just taking one of my three arrays piping it in to a different inverter like a UL certified Growatt and just accepting the fact that I cannot get what they advertise for the 15k.
If I pull one array out of the three (doesn’t matter which one) they other two can produce around 12kw. Each of the three arrays are max @6.4kw each. This is probably my next project I suppose. I’ll just send one array until a growatt or something and put the AC output of that new inverter going in the smart / micro AC input on the Sol-Arc 15k. Then I’ll just have to keep my chin up and be past this.
All in all, I really do think the Sol-Arcs are good, but this 15k seems to have been branded something that it cannot do, at least not in my use case with my panels.
Sol-Arc’s last thing was they wanted pictures of my panel install, yet I can prove each array can output around 6.2kw or so with full sun and the throttle is obviously not a panel / array issue.
In the end, I’m disappointed about the money spent and not being able to really do what was promised. Im kind of stuck with it at this point.
My last thoughts are this —- if I did this all over again, I feel like I would probably still buy the 15k, but I’d have the expectation to treat some of their ratings like an old off brand car stereo amp that says 1,000watts, but yet in the end we know that it’s only maybe 75watts RMS at a reasonable THD level. ??????
If anything changes I’ll let the group know and I’ll continue to monitor the thread.
It would be super nice if we didn’t continue to clog this thread with the other topics. We could start a new thread? ???
I’m all about let’s talk about it, but hopefully we can keep our topics relevant to each thread. Not trying to complain, I’m just thinking about other folks researching and maybe having the same issue and they try to read through our thread here and see a bunch of us not only arguing, but arguing about things completely unrelated.
I want to thank everyone that helped me through all of the troubleshooting and I will even thank Sol-ark for trying even though they failed to deliver a fix.
On a positive note, since I believe several folks think it’s a software issue (including me) I’ll keep my hopes up that they will magically correct the issue soon. The 15k has only been out for like 8 months or something. I bought my original as soon as they hit the distribution channel.
In your chart at the time you have marked with the cursor - 13:45, PV is producing 63 watts while microinverters are at 1799watts. So it looks like at this point the DC PV input to the inverter is producing almost nothing while the microinverters are continuing to produce.
How many watts of panels are now wired to the microinverters?
I'd like to see a chart of your Sol-Ark PV volts and amps for the same time period as that chart. I think we would see PV volts spiking at least 50V higher and PV amps dropping to near 0 at 13:45.
This is the same issue I am having with 12k. And yet I am told by Sol-Ark that I am the only one with this problem. The issue with the spikes is that even though Voc is OK per sol-ark string calculator, I have seen spikes that go over their max input of 500V and over the Voc of the array. This can damage the inverter.
So, Clint, even if you are OK with the limit of 13k watts on the inverter, you still have this other problem.
Like in my previous post, I wonder if this issue is more common and not being seen by sol-ark owners because they don't know it's a problem. It may be a hardware or software design flaw affecting many if not all Sol-Ark products.
The warranty period on the Sol-Ark is a long time and you people who are happy now with your inverter, that's great. But what happens when the inverter fails? Will Sol-Ark be able to fulfill their warranty obligations? They have not solved my problem nor Clint's. These are fair questions. It's a yes or no answer with no need to go into where the sol-ark came from, who designed it, where it's made or what color the sky is.
How many watts of panels are now wired to the microinverters?
I'd like to see a chart of your Sol-Ark PV volts and amps for the same time period as that chart. I think we would see PV volts spiking at least 50V higher and PV amps dropping to near 0 at 13:45.
This is the same issue I am having with 12k. And yet I am told by Sol-Ark that I am the only one with this problem. The issue with the spikes is that even though Voc is OK per sol-ark string calculator, I have seen spikes that go over their max input of 500V and over the Voc of the array. This can damage the inverter.
So, Clint, even if you are OK with the limit of 13k watts on the inverter, you still have this other problem.
Like in my previous post, I wonder if this issue is more common and not being seen by sol-ark owners because they don't know it's a problem. It may be a hardware or software design flaw affecting many if not all Sol-Ark products.
The warranty period on the Sol-Ark is a long time and you people who are happy now with your inverter, that's great. But what happens when the inverter fails? Will Sol-Ark be able to fulfill their warranty obligations? They have not solved my problem nor Clint's. These are fair questions. It's a yes or no answer with no need to go into where the sol-ark came from, who designed it, where it's made or what color the sky is.
Here’s it doing the same thing today. Same exact thing yes. Check it out.
Note - Array one is a max of 5,120w because I pulled 2kw out of it and put micro inverters in them. Micro max power is about 1910w. When the DC PV drops, the micros are remaining fine. It’s like a throttle/reset occurring on the MPPT’s and then it stabilizes after doing this a couple times once full sun is in effect. The stabilization point is at about 13.2kw.
The other two arrays are both 6,400w each max.
Solar Guppy
Red Cobra Guppy
I read through the entire thread again trying to see clues to what may be causing / triggering this behavior
From other 15k users, they can sell 15k of solar through the inverter, and the OP has two units that do the same thing so it must be site specific trigger.
There is some type of event being triggered at the point of throttling back to the 13K limit
One thing I was not sure of was where the adding of micro inverters ( which allows full solar harvest ) is separate circuit to the main panel?
In the images, I keeping seeing the grid port is on the high side, running at 248V ( can the grid profile be modified to up the UL1741SA defined thresholds? )
I've been out of GT inverter designs for a while but did some reading on the changes for UL1741-SA and came across a feature that would do exactly what is seen by the OP. This is shown on page 9: 3.3 Autonomous Volt-Watt Operation
This is a feature to have inverters automatically help stabilize the grid, as the grid voltage increases, there are define regions the units will self reduce power output as a percentage of the defined maximum. I would look at the grid profile and see where this starts to be engaged and if you can change them temporally to see if it resolves the issue.
If you can add a load at the grid port, like a water heater or other large load, that would bring down the voltage for a test to see if the solar can export the full 15K
From other 15k users, they can sell 15k of solar through the inverter, and the OP has two units that do the same thing so it must be site specific trigger.
There is some type of event being triggered at the point of throttling back to the 13K limit
One thing I was not sure of was where the adding of micro inverters ( which allows full solar harvest ) is separate circuit to the main panel?
In the images, I keeping seeing the grid port is on the high side, running at 248V ( can the grid profile be modified to up the UL1741SA defined thresholds? )
I've been out of GT inverter designs for a while but did some reading on the changes for UL1741-SA and came across a feature that would do exactly what is seen by the OP. This is shown on page 9: 3.3 Autonomous Volt-Watt Operation
This is a feature to have inverters automatically help stabilize the grid, as the grid voltage increases, there are define regions the units will self reduce power output as a percentage of the defined maximum. I would look at the grid profile and see where this starts to be engaged and if you can change them temporally to see if it resolves the issue.
If you can add a load at the grid port, like a water heater or other large load, that would bring down the voltage for a test to see if the solar can export the full 15K
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You have some good points. I’ve wondered a bit about the voltage on grid getting too high. I have tried running some heavy loads to use most of the PV power and it didn’t seem to help. I still question your point though because without any Solar, I always have 122.3 volts on L1/L2.
This problem persisted before I added the micros. I added micros because I wanted to harvest some of the power in loosing. So I started with three arrays that were 6.4kw each. Now I’ve peeled off some panels and one of the arrays is only 5.1kw.
It’s interesting that the moment before I’ll get a DC PV drop out, I’ll see more amperage / power on the arrays. Then, boom it’s basically resets the MPPTs and ramps back up. They always like to stabilize at about the same amperage of 15amp~ each when they are seeming to clip. If I pull one array out, doesn’t matter which, I’ll see the other two produce 18 to 20amps each at around 6.1kw~.
This is today. It was mostly clear but we had a few clouds pass and you can see on the micros that they will match. But you can also see one of those dips where the MPPTs reset.
PV number 1 is the array that’s a little smaller now at about 5,120w max. It’s two strings of 8 in series paralleled.
Here’s a zoom in on just the voltage at 10:56am. This seems to happen if we have a cloud maybe then the sun pops out and it is like it just has an overload moment. So strange.
This problem persisted before I added the micros. I added micros because I wanted to harvest some of the power in loosing. So I started with three arrays that were 6.4kw each. Now I’ve peeled off some panels and one of the arrays is only 5.1kw.
It’s interesting that the moment before I’ll get a DC PV drop out, I’ll see more amperage / power on the arrays. Then, boom it’s basically resets the MPPTs and ramps back up. They always like to stabilize at about the same amperage of 15amp~ each when they are seeming to clip. If I pull one array out, doesn’t matter which, I’ll see the other two produce 18 to 20amps each at around 6.1kw~.
This is today. It was mostly clear but we had a few clouds pass and you can see on the micros that they will match. But you can also see one of those dips where the MPPTs reset.
PV number 1 is the array that’s a little smaller now at about 5,120w max. It’s two strings of 8 in series paralleled.
Here’s a zoom in on just the voltage at 10:56am. This seems to happen if we have a cloud maybe then the sun pops out and it is like it just has an overload moment. So strange.
