Sol-Ark needs a serious Change!

solar8484

Solar Enthusiast
I’m fairly certain the single phase Deye inverters only support one Ct because they only need to use one CT because they are single phase and usually only wired to a single phase main panel for grid tie.

In that case, if Deye has CT config setting for scaling factor then you could run 2 wires (1 in reverse direction) through the same CT with half the scaling factor.
 

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
If using two CTs (one for each leg) with only one Ct connection to read splitphase power supply then the CTs should be in series. I explain why it’s series on one of the GTIL2 threads on here.

Have a link? I couldn't find your posting with a quick search of some keywords.

Just analyzing it in my head, I think series CT would make it sum the current of each leg and multiply by 240V. Parallel would average the current of each leg and multiply by 240V. Either works to detect zero, but I think the second option is needed if setting a target export, e.g. 3kW max permitted.

(Or set a scaling factor as 8484 mentions. Presumably has one.)
 

robby

Solar Addict
Just because it wasn’t listed as a product on their site before 2019 doesn’t mean they didn’t make it and sell many of them as far back as 2017 when they say they launched them. Is there anything as far back as 2017 saying SolArk launched the hybrid inverter they had Deye make, or the supposed inverter they made?
It wasn't listed as a product on Deye until 2020. Their is no picture of a Deye Hybrid Inverter that has the functionality or form factor of the current Sol-Ark, until the Deye clone in 2020. What you can find is inverters in the hands of Sunsynk in late 2018 that are the Sol-Ark 8K model released in early 2018. The Sunsynk guy has peeled off the Sol-Ark name on it and does not mention where it came from or who made it.
 
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Cheap 4-life

Solar Enthusiast
Have a link? I couldn't find your posting with a quick search of some keywords.

Just analyzing it in my head, I think series CT would make it sum the current of each leg and multiply by 240V. Parallel would average the current of each leg and multiply by 240V. Either works to detect zero, but I think the second option is needed if setting a target export, e.g. 3kW max permitted.

(Or set a scaling factor as 8484 mentions. Presumably has one.)

My mistake it was at second life storage not here.
Although the GTIL2s CTs are only for limiting. The GTIL2 has options in its settings to limit the amount it produces but not to limit its export. It just won’t export at all when using limiting, so you might be right about the Deye needing the CTs to be in parallel due to the other things the Deye uses the CTs for
 

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ret60sp

Solar Enthusiast
More tin foil needed for you. firstly microtik are owned by a Latvian company with 60% Russian ownership. That’s your first mistake as that was on your initial not to trust list but you have it as the core of your network and they use Chinese made hardware based on open router board, which isn’t open at all. Only the software is open source, the hardware is already known to have back doors in hardware. Secondly your inverter that you think is made in the good old USA isn’t, as is most of the hardware for pv Is made in China Or has Chinese DSP, processor or an arm licensed mm, I have great respect for my cousins in the USA but you seriously need to take a look closer to home sometimes. You think you have a good understanding of networking and such because you are using a certain brand “based in the us” you honesty don’t have a clue.
Telling someone they are clueless is not helpful. If you truly wanted to help someone like me, the village idiot, please take up the time to tell us idiots what we should be doing, what hardware and software we should be using, as well as how to set it up and keep the bad guys from plundering our cheesecloth network. I'm completely aware of who owns Mikrotik. I'm also completely aware of how limited the typical residential router is here in the United States, (which is why I use a Mikrotik router instead) so in light of the revelation that you know better, please tell me whos hardware I should be acquiring and how is it better than what we have available to us now?
 

ret60sp

Solar Enthusiast
I'm a retired, software development engineer. I will NOT connect to anything outside my home. Any data you 'give away' will be used to track you and be sold. The iComfort on my whole-house heat pump is an example - I refuse to allow it to connect and store my heat/cool stats outside of my home. You might think - who could ever connect my 'annoymous' heat/cool use or SolArk solar stats or X or Y or Z to me - but you'd be wrong. These bits of data can be leveraged thru analysis and often connected together and sold or used to market you or used for nefarious purposes down the road. The way AWES (Amazon Web Services) and Dell (EMC/Vmware services) works is that virtual servers can migrate and/or be replicated and/or backed up anywhere in the world. You can have a primary service here and replicate/backup there. Personally - I just won't buy a product that requires off-site interconnect to be used.
I agree with you 100%. I see no reason why a hardware manufacturer cannot offer a simple locally administered solution to be able to monitor one's solar system on a home network and NOT NEED internet access, cloud storage, a third party or a complicated web interface to be able to make sure all of your panels are working properly, everything is "normal" and there is no need for any further interaction.

My beef with Sol-Ark is they are a premium priced brand and they don't offer this simple solution. SolarEdge has the same problem, and for those of you (like me) who are choosing to get away from Google Services by opting for a "dumb phone" or a de-googled phone, many of these phone apps that are required to monitor your solar system also require the third party intervention services of Google. Add in Chinese servers and the constant datamining of Google and we have no privacy rights.

My 18 year old Trane 19i HVAC system needs to be replaced. Most of the comparable systems with similar efficiency ratings have interconnected and networked services that are required to be "online" for a warranty action (should one arise). So I've spent the last 6 months looking for a replacement system that is at least as efficient, will use my existing thermostats (there are 5) as well as the existing infrastructure and not need to be "monitored" externally. Right now I can log into my Aprilaire 8826 controller and program any or all of the thermostats from any computer on the LAN and it doesn't require internet access. So it's not just Sol-Ark who is adopting these idiotic business mandates. It seems as if our next toaster will require internet access to work properly.

I'm just raising a ruckus to inform all of you, so you won't make the same mistake I made by purchasing a system that requires access to the Internet which might involve Chinese servers to fully function with monitoring.
 
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solardad

Solar Addict
You have a right to be concerned about this! If they are making a track record of doing this then what is keeping them from dumbing down future "updates" on their current hardware in the future.
I don't think they (Sol-Ark) are doing anything that is nefarious, just a business decision. We may not like it but the product, going on 2 years now with my 12k, is rock solid and worth it and I don't regret it. Sure I may have some buyer's remorse since I didn't stumble upon the DEYE 1st given the potential savings but I am not going to lose sleep over it.

As for all this other debate who was 1st or who copied whom it does not matter at the end of the day to me. If the product was crap then yeah but it's solid. And...they are not the only ones with a connection outside of the US.

If folks don't like it then there are a ton of other inverters out there to choose from but I can't think of one that is made in the US with US parts that does not have software or a monitoring site that is located only in the US (think cloud computing, locations are across the world).
 

Cheap 4-life

Solar Enthusiast
It wasn't listed as a product on Deye until 2020. Their is no picture of a Deye Hybrid Inverter that has the functionality or form factor of the current Sol-Ark/Deye clone until 2020. What you can find is inverters in the hands of Sunsynk in late 2018 that is the Sol-Ark 8K model released in early 2018. The Sunsynk guy has peeled off the Sol-Ark name on it and does not mention where it came from or who made it.
I don’t need a picture to confirm that Deye was making single phase hybrids before SolArk wanted splitphase. Most inverter manufacturers makes a single phase version before splitphase, that just the way it happens. Both pv magazine and Deyes website confirms that Deye launched single phase 8k hybrids as early as 2017.
I doubt Keith removed the SolArk label. As a matter of fact I know he didn’t because the inverter in the video is a single phase inverter.
 
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RayfromTX

Solar Addict
Some people don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Here in TX we are known for our tall tales.

Becoming isolated from data mining and surveillance is a whole nuther hobby and these companies see the convenience of monitoring their clients as a feature, not a bug.

If we could trust them it might not be so bad but the companies with the best products seem to be the biggest liars and bullies. sigh
 

robby

Solar Addict
I agree with you 100%. I see no reason why a hardware manufacturer cannot offer a simple locally administered solution to be able to monitor one's solar system on a home network and NOT NEED internet access, cloud storage, a third party or a complicated web interface to be able to make sure all of your panels are working properly, everything is "normal" and there is no need for any further interaction.

My beef with Sol-Ark is they are a premium priced brand and they don't offer this simple solution. SolarEdge has the same problem, and for those of you (like me) who are choosing to get away from Google Services by opting for a "dumb phone" or a de-googled phone, many of these phone apps that are required to monitor your solar system also require the third party intervention services of Google. Add in Chinese servers and the constant datamining of Google and we have no privacy rights.

My 18 year old Trane 19i HVAC system needs to be replaced. Most of the comparable systems with similar efficiency ratings have interconnected and networked services that are required to be "online" for a warranty action (should one arise). So I've spent the last 6 months looking for a replacement system that is at least as efficient, will use my existing thermostats (there are 5) as well as the existing infrastructure and not need to be "monitored" externally. Right now I can log into my Aprilaire 8826 controller and program any or all of the thermostats from any computer on the LAN and it doesn't require internet access. So it's not just Sol-Ark who is adopting these idiotic business mandates. It seems as if our next toaster will require internet access to work properly.

I'm just raising a ruckus to inform all of you, so you won't make the same mistake I made by purchasing a system that requires access to the Internet which might involve Chinese servers to fully function with monitoring.
You don't need Internet access to program and use the Sol-Ark. You can do everything from the front screen and never hook it up to the Internet. They even offer software update dongles for people who live out in the sticks and have no internet. The only issue is that you cannot remotely monitor or store production data without their internet servers unless you want to try one of the third party devices. I will buy one of those until I actually see it being demonstrated on a Sol-Ark.
 

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
My mistake it was at second life storage not here.
Although the GTIL2s CTs are only for limiting. The GTIL2 has options in its settings to limit the amount it produces but not to limit its export. It just won’t export at all when using limiting, so you might be right about the Deye needing the CTs to be in parallel due to the other things the Deye uses the CTs for

I've decided that putting the two CT series vs. parallel is just sum vs. average.
CT1 + CT2 vs. (CT1 + CT2)/2
Either should work to approximately measure power so long as there is a multiplication factor which can be applied.
If Line1 and Line2 aren't exactly the same voltage, there will be some error.

Where software only implements "Zero Export" but not "Export up to XXX Watts", I have a hardware workaround:
Use a step-down transformer and resistor to obtain a current proportional to AC line, and feed it though many turns of small gauge wire wrapped around CT. This creates a signal of amps x turn current flowing. Inverter will think "Zero" when it balances that offset signal.
Another:
Use an op-amp to add an AC voltage to the CT's sense resistor voltage. An offset in reading.
 

Roqm

Solar Enthusiast
Out of curiosity has anyone ever seen a hybrid 8k splitphase version listed on deye's website? Ever?
 

wcpastures

New Member
Well I am now leaning towards a more simple inverter (non cloud-connected) setup utilizing some of the equipment I already have: 4 x 230W, 24V panels and a 40amp AIMS Power charge controller (model: SCC40MPPT)
I need to at minimum enough power to run the well pump drawing 6 running amps (not startup) @ 240V plus the chest freezer and fridge.
Any suggestions?
 

houseofancients

Solar Addict
Well I am now leaning towards a more simple inverter (non cloud-connected) setup utilizing some of the equipment I already have: 4 x 230W, 24V panels and a 40amp AIMS Power charge controller (model: SCC40MPPT)
I need to at minimum enough power to run the well pump drawing 6 running amps (not startup) @ 240V plus the chest freezer and fridge.
Any suggestions?
you dont have to connect the sol-ark/deye/sunsynk to the internet if you choose not to do so.
probably all inverters/manufactorers are now trying to get user data.

if you want to connect to/monitor you inverter throught a local lan, create a vlan, and block internet traffic out from that vlan
 

wcpastures

New Member
Yeah, I was on the verge of coughing up the premium for a Sol-Ark (glad I did not), but seeing their deceptive practices it just doesn't make sense and it sounds like I would need to Jerry-rig any sort of clone / equivalent inverter that is available in the US at this point in time. Plus at our current location I am limited to the number of panels I can put up (we are in partially shaded areas) so I wouldn't be getting anywhere near full use of Sol-Ark 12k.

I figure if I can set up a simple off-grid system and just manually switch back and forth from solar when there is plenty of sun and our loads are minimal or when the grid is down. Our main breaker panel has a manual interlock for generator input and I would use that for the solar inverter for now. This is not ideal but this could at least get us started and I can more easily do DYI.

I think Sol-Ark will have to change their ways soon or another product will become available at a more reasonable price before to long and I could upgrade at that time.
 
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