Sol-Ark users and firmware versions

[robby]

Right. So, there you go. Thank you.

I can only assume that slightly older firmware would put you "within spec" (around that 50-60W range)...assume without a deeper analysis.

I'm not sure what your motivation is for saying 50W would be nice, but mine is based on needing to conserve as much as possible on those 3 or more cloudy day stretches. That extra 30W adds up (and I bought a unit that "promised" a typical 60W).

I'm only one voice, and I'm back on the x.2.0.6 and 1.4.F.A versions now, but I don't look forward to a time when they want me to upgrade! I'm very disappointed they are not treating this "out of spec" with any priority.

What are you using to read the current draw? Only a meter will give an accurate reading on these small currents.

 

[lingley_can]

What are you using to read the current draw? Only a meter will give an accurate reading on these small currents.

I'm only using the stats reported by the inverter itself (and correlating that with an overall behavior of the battery life over these long stretches). 30W extra is an extra 3/4 kWh per day (approximately), which shows up after 3 or 4 days of heavy clouds.

Based on the inverter stats, I've performed tests for Solark with both AC loads and PV loads turned off...so just the Solark keeping itself running from battery draw. This makes the 50-60W vs. 80-90W obvious, but the same differences are seen at night with VERY light load and no PV.

I don't have a meter; I can only trust the inverter numbers...and if Solark wants to tell me that the old firmware AND their specs/marketing material are wrong (i.e. a meter would prove that the increased load is accurate), I'd be OK with that (except that I bought expecting 60 and am getting 90...I wouldn't be OK with that...but such is life).

 

[robby]

I'm only using the stats reported by the inverter itself (and correlating that with an overall behavior of the battery life over these long stretches). 30W extra is an extra 3/4 kWh per day (approximately), which shows up after 3 or 4 days of heavy clouds.

Based on the inverter stats, I've performed tests for Solark with both AC loads and PV loads turned off...so just the Solark keeping itself running from battery draw. This makes the 50-60W vs. 80-90W obvious, but the same differences are seen at night with VERY light load and no PV.

I don't have a meter; I can only trust the inverter numbers...and if Solark wants to tell me that the old firmware AND their specs/marketing material are wrong (i.e. a meter would prove that the increased load is accurate), I'd be OK with that (except that I bought expecting 60 and am getting 90...I wouldn't be OK with that...but such is life).

Get a clamp on meter and check again. The Sol-Ark is not very good at measuring tiny changes like 30W so you cannot trust the Inverters numbers when looking at small changes like that.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Get a clamp on meter and check again. The Sol-Ark is not very good at measuring tiny changes like 30W so you cannot trust the Inverters numbers when looking at small changes like that.

I am on Ver 6.2.1.0 and mine reads like 21W on the PVpro app so I doubt it’s very accurate at that low a reading.

 

[robby]

I am on Ver 6.2.1.0 and mine reads like 21W on the PVpro app so I doubt it’s very accurate at that low a reading.

Mine reads 40W and I highly doubt that is accurate.
It's kind of hard with the system in use 24/7 to shutdown the whole house just to check every firmware updates for changes. I kind of doubt that Sol-Ark would do anything to change the Specification, especially when Poz came out and tried to claim it was wrong and they had to make a video to show it was right.

 

[lingley_can]

Mine reads 40W and I highly doubt that is accurate.
It's kind of hard with the system in use 24/7 to shutdown the whole house just to check every firmware updates for changes. I kind of doubt that Sol-Ark would do anything to change the Specification, especially when Poz came out and tried to claim it was wrong and they had to make a video to show it was right.

That’s really interesting. What reading are you guys stating there? Battery draw under the same condition (no load and no PV) I stated above? They are very low numbers. As in “I’m jealous”.

I’m certainly open to the measurement being inaccurate, and the engineering manager ( I think it was) said that it would be off by “a few watts”, but even he didn’t believe it would be way off. And an inherent inaccuracy doesn’t explain the firmware difference (unless they fixed something…in which case they can just tell me).

 

[Nobodybusiness]

That’s really interesting. What reading are you guys stating there? Battery draw under the same condition (no load and no PV) I stated above? They are very low numbers. As in “I’m jealous”.

I’m certainly open to the measurement being inaccurate, and the engineering manager ( I think it was) said that it would be off by “a few watts”, but even he didn’t believe it would be way off. And an inherent inaccuracy doesn’t explain the firmware difference (unless they fixed something…in which case they can just tell me).

Not sure.
I just know it doesn’t really affect me.
I run my whole house and shop with 2 12KWs.

Whatever the idle draw is insignificant compared to everything else.

Are you using small batteries or something?
What is the concern with the idle draw?

 

[robby]

That’s really interesting. What reading are you guys stating there? Battery draw under the same condition (no load and no PV) I stated above? They are very low numbers. As in “I’m jealous”.

I’m certainly open to the measurement being inaccurate, and the engineering manager ( I think it was) said that it would be off by “a few watts”, but even he didn’t believe it would be way off. And an inherent inaccuracy doesn’t explain the firmware difference (unless they fixed something…in which case they can just tell me).

Its just like an expensive Fluke Meter. You have the 300ma Socket and you have a separate socket for the 10A range.
You can read a 250ma current using the 10A Range but the accuracy will be pretty bad.
I think the Sol-Ark is designed to read up to 9000 Watts coming from the batteries or 170 Amps. It's pretty hard to make it accurate by +/- 1 Amp.
1 Amp is +/- 52 Watts. If your reading 6000 Watts on the system would you really care if it was 5948W or 6052W being drawn from the battery?
You can now see why getting an accurate 60W reading is going to be a problem. If your in doubt just buy a $50 Clamp on meter.

 

[robby]

That’s really interesting. What reading are you guys stating there? Battery draw under the same condition (no load and no PV) I stated above? They are very low numbers. As in “I’m jealous”.

I’m certainly open to the measurement being inaccurate, and the engineering manager ( I think it was) said that it would be off by “a few watts”, but even he didn’t believe it would be way off. And an inherent inaccuracy doesn’t explain the firmware difference (unless they fixed something…in which case they can just tell me).

No load for sure but I cannot remember if I had the PV switch on or off. I don't think it really matters as the unit keeps itself in standby by using the batteries or the Grid. I think it only uses the Grid if you have no batteries and I don't think it will run on PV only if no Batteries OR Grid are connected. That might damage the Inverter as it would be tripping in and out as the clouds passed over.

 

[lingley_can]

Not sure.
I just know it doesn’t really affect me.
I run my whole house and shop with 2 12KWs.

Whatever the idle draw is insignificant compared to everything else.

Are you using small batteries or something?
What is the concern with the idle draw?

I’m using it for a lake house; not there all the time. I’ve got 19 kWh of battery, so closer to 15 kWh at 80% DOD. At the 60W spec, that’s just shy of 1.5 kWh per day. Total usage when I’m not there is calculated (and proved out with experience) is roughly 5 kWh per day (including the self load). So, roughly 3 days of power, depending on how heavy the cloud cover. At 90W, those numbers go up to roughly 2.2 and 5.7 per day, which makes that 3 days even less. With the new firmware, I could see this playing out in my battery life.

Simply put, I support the “every watt matters” opinions in off grid…and if a firmware upgrade means I can’t last 3 full days when before I could, that sucks.

This is where the “measurement accuracy” idea makes me wonder…if it were just accuracy, I wouldn’t see the change in behavior…

 

[robby]

Your using 24 hours in the math but in reality PV will offset about 8-11 hours of that.

 

[lingley_can]

Your using 24 hours in the math but in reality PV will offset about 8-11 hours of that.

True Robby, but that PV just stretches that 3 days to 4 or maybe 5. The self load increase still eats into it. I learned about the “grey days of November” ( I think my mother called it) last year; almost no PV output for days at a time…dark, dark clouds. November and even December, long stretches of very little PV causing me to make special trips to run my generator.

I fear it being incrementally worse this year or next if forced to take an upgrade. Of course, a whole home generator would solve that, or even more PV, but there is only so much money to go around!

 

[robby]

True Robby, but that PV just stretches that 3 days to 4 or maybe 5. The self load increase still eats into it. I learned about the “grey days of November” ( I think my mother called it) last year; almost no PV output for days at a time…dark, dark clouds. November and even December, long stretches of very little PV causing me to make special trips to run my generator.

I fear it being incrementally worse this year or next if forced to take an upgrade. Of course, a whole home generator would solve that, or even more PV, but there is only so much money to go around!

Is the current smaller generator getting you through the bad days? I have two Honda EU3000is but I only use one for the house. It's not connected to the Sol-Ark but it will run all my 120V loads, but I have to make sure the Microwave is not used at the same time as the toaster. Bottom line is that I can get through the bad days if the grid was down, it's just that life would not be as comfortable.

If I was off grid I would probably spend the money on big a generator tied to the Sol-Ark. As you said, PV is not always going to be reliable and putting up enough panels and batteries to offset long spells of bad weather that may or may not happen is probably not a good investment.
In your case with so many batteries a medium sized generator sounds like a better option to me. You just need it to be able to power the house in the day while also putting in enough charge to the batteries to get you through the night.
Self consumption current with the Sol-Ark is probably one of the lowest in the Hybrid Inverter market, I just don't see it getting much better than 60W.

 

[Rennit]

The Inverse thing is normal. As the Ipv or current draw goes up the panels voltage will dip and vice versa.
Anyway let me not derail the Ops thread any further. Hopefully a Roll back will fix the issues and then version 6.2.1.3 will have the fix included.

I had them roll back my firmware yesterday and everything is back to normal now. They even called me to setup a good time to do the reversion. Still impressed with their support but I don't think I'll be updating again any time soon lol

In the pic you can clearly see the before and after performance of the older firmware.

 

[robby]

Glad to hear it worked out for you. This is how it goes with firmware updates, sometimes the company creates a problem while trying to fix a problem.
I would just wait out a month until the next update and try again. It’s not a big deal to roll back if the issue comes back.