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Solar and batteries or generator when grid goes down?

Shut it down to preform maintenance, do checks, that is fine. But turning it off for "rest", nope. I have run large generators for weeks solid. They only got shutoff for oil changes and any maintenance at their scheduled interval.
Were these large Generators water cooled?
 
I have yet to hear of natural gas going down in a crisis. Not to say it can't happen of course.
The entire state of Victoria in Australia once had a 2 week long natural gas network outage following the Longford gas plant explosion.

Let me add this, a gasoline generator half the size of mine will not run an electric dryer or a central air conditioner and will cost you over twice as much.
Given it's for occasional outage backup, one of the assessments to be made is what exactly does one need to operate during such outage periods?

If you want to run all those high powered / high energy consumption appliances, then yes you will need to spend the money on a large system.

But with some strategic energy management choices, one can have very functional backup for a lot less money.

We made the decision to forego the use of high powered appliances during grid outages, and have a system which can run most things but we do not run large ducted aircon system, nor use our oven if we are running from backup. The second dwelling can run their small split system AC and we can get by with fans if we need, and when we complete a renovation we'll also have a smaller split AC unit we could use if needed at one end of the house. If it happens to be Winter and an unusually cold night, then I can always use the fireplace.

As a result of choosing to moderate energy consumption during outages, the outlay for a backup system is about 20% of what would be required to enable the property to operate as if it were on grid, for what amounts to an average of 35-40 hours of outage per year.
 
I have a small solar grid tie system and will soon expand to net metering and a 5K solar system to start then 10K. I decided against going the battery back thing and here is why. Let me say this I was in the direct path of Hurricane Ida in South Louisiana a month ago. We lost power for 16 days. I have a triple fuel gasoline, propane, and natural gas 14,000 watt American made Generator. My house is two story with a two ton A/C central for each floor. We ran the Generator on natural gas. For 16 days. We let the Generator rest 2 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. Changing the oil and filter every 100 hour. Our national gas bill was $260.for 320 hours of running time. We ran one a/c at a time. Washed clothes used microwave, toaster etc. 2 refrigerators also TV computers. Just like being on the grid! The Generator was under $4,000 a good lithium 8 battery set up would cost $6,400 for just the batteries. Generator is just sitting there for next time. So you say "but I can use my batteries at night to power my home. It's costing you over 0.50 a KWH when net metering would
cost less that 0.10 a KWH for being your batteries and the grid don't have batteries that need changing. This is just my thoughts after getting some good info.here on this forum.
Ok you have a 14kw generator, which means can provide 7kw of power (Generators should be pushed to no more then 60% max of rated wattage) and you had 5kw solar array. Gill battery’s $1500 x 3= $4500 dollar’s and no maintenance. You forgot to add the price of oil and filter. In a true grid down situation the gas plant would be down and the pressure in the line would not be maintained and unless you have significant gas stored you would only have the solar to run your home During the day. From a sustainability standpoint what you have would not work long term.
 
The entire state of Victoria in Australia once had a 2 week long natural gas network outage following the Longford gas plant explosion.


Given it's for occasional outage backup, one of the assessments to be made is what exactly does one need to operate during such outage periods?

If you want to run all those high powered / high energy consumption appliances, then yes you will need to spend the money on a large system.

But with some strategic energy management choices, one can have very functional backup for a lot less money.

We made the decision to forego the use of high powered appliances during grid outages, and have a system which can run most things but we do not run large ducted aircon system, nor use our oven if we are running from backup. The second dwelling can run their small split system AC and we can get by with fans if we need, and when we complete a renovation we'll also have a smaller split AC unit we could use if needed at one end of the house. If it happens to be Winter and an unusually cold night, then I can always use the fireplace.

As a result of choosing to moderate energy consumption during outages, the outlay for a backup system is about 20% of what would be required to enable the property to operate as if it were on grid, for what amounts to an average of 35-40 hours of outage per year.
Your initial post did mention you tailored your home to run off that situation, you stated “it was just like the grid”.
 
Got a citation on only using 60% of a generators rated power?

Because most of them are "rated" for continuous output with max/peak also listed.

My 1800w inverter gen can run till the cows come home at 1800w, but it has a max output of 2200.

My bosses standby generator is rated for like 17kw with some crazy high surge. Straight from generac, they say it can run at 17kw straight through its service interval.
 
The entire state of Victoria in Australia once had a 2 week long natural gas network outage following the Longford gas plant explosion.
Australia really is the wild west innit?

Hopefully a mitigation plan is in place to prevent that again hey?
 
Your initial post did mention you tailored your home to run off that situation, you stated “it was just like the grid”.
Just clarifying which initial post you are referring to?

I think I've always stated our backup would be power limited and built to a budget. That's perfectly fine as it's about covering essential needs (plus some) and not about being able to run every high powered appliance we have during periods of grid outage.

Over capitalising on backup when grid outages, on average, represent less than 40 hours out of the 8760 hours in a year just didn't seem worth it.

In my world such resources are better allocated to increasing solar PV, or applied to energy efficiency measures.

But every home is different. If I were operating a business which absolutely required energy security in a less than reliable grid, then yep I'd be installing a whopping big genset, like a business neighbouring me has, I think their's is a 135kW unit!

If the outages we were experiencing were of the multi-day/week variety, then my solution would also be different and with greater capacity.
 
Your initial post did mention you tailored your home to run off that situation, you stated “it was just like the grid”.
Only difference from the grid is we only ran one central A/C at a time. Downstairs during the day and upstairs at night. My home has 8" plus walls so the units cool it down quick. Total square footage upstairs and downstairs is 1,500 this shows wall thickness in the kitchen.
 

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Got a citation on only using 60% of a generators rated power?

Because most of them are "rated" for continuous output with max/peak also listed.

My 1800w inverter gen can run till the cows come home at 1800w, but it has a max output of 2200.

My bosses standby generator is rated for like 17kw with some crazy high surge. Straight from generac, they say it can run at 17kw straight through its service interval.
My 14,000 is rated at 11,700 continuous according to the manual! We ran it no more than 6,000 to 7,000 at the most
 
Ok you have a 14kw generator, which means can provide 7kw of power (Generators should be pushed to no more then 60% max of rated wattage) and you had 5kw solar array. Gill battery’s $1500 x 3= $4500 dollar’s and no maintenance. You forgot to add the price of oil and filter. In a true grid down situation the gas plant would be down and the pressure in the line would not be maintained and unless you have significant gas stored you would only have the solar to run your home During the day. From a sustainability standpoint what you have would not work long term.
Manual says 11,700 continuous, we kept it well below that Id say 5,,000 to 6,000 most the time around 1,200.
 
Every one thinks Natural Gas is invincible ( I use to think so to) Last year during the hard freeze here in La our gas meter froze solid shutting off the gas --Luckily a friend of the family works for Entergy and got us a new meter that night

Another instance -- After Ida -- an area in my neighborhood the gas lines couldn't handle the excessive generator load -- lots of people had issues
 
Every one thinks Natural Gas is invincible ( I use to think so to) Last year during the hard freeze here in La our gas meter froze solid shutting off the gas --Luckily a friend of the family works for Entergy and got us a new meter that night

Another instance -- After Ida -- an area in my neighborhood the gas lines couldn't handle the excessive generator load -- lots of people had issues
People do hear and thise stories are not reported on. I grew up in Michigan and never had a line or meter freeze, it must be how they are made. Texas line were not winterized either and they had the same event 11yrs ago and never fixed the problem.
 
Being in Florida we have experienced more power outages than I can even remember all of them.
This was the reason I bought a 10kw generator after being without power for 2 weeks in over 100 degree weather. The generator worked great and we ran a small window ac unit, fridge, freezer, TV, coffee maker, etc. However we quickly learned that these generators use approx 1 gallon of gas per hour. Wow, it depleted my prepping supply of 180 gallons in not time. Of course during an emergency you cannot find any gas to replenish your supplies, so I learned while the generator was great, it was also unrealistic to count on it being our source of power during an emergency.

That was my motivation to install a small solar setup as an emergency power source. I did not expect to run my house as if on the grid, only a few critical items to get by. Doing this we can still run the critical things and no fuel is needed and no exhaust or noise. Of course my 3kw inverter is nothing like the power of the 10kw generator, but by scaling down and obtaining more 3nergy efficient devices, its not all that different with what we can do.

Everyone has their own idea of surviving a power outage but I am trying to be realistic in having a pretty much self replenishing smaller amount of power is still better than a giant paperweight generator when you can't get more fuel for it.
 
That was my motivation to install a small solar setup as an emergency power source.
An off-grid solar/battery system is a great option and I did the same.

However a smaller generator can also be used to keep batteries charged on days when the solar PV isn't enough to keep them topped up. In my case 2 hours of generator runtime will provide about 8 hours of backup charge in the batteries. It makes for a very efficient use of the generator as it can operate at a relatively constant efficient power level and isn't needed to be run at night time keeping noise down (and can be secured if needed).
 
saying run it Hard it's good for it
Think of highway mikes versus stop’n’go traffic. Continuous duty is good for motors.

Do capacitors even know the can sleep? Not usually; they bleed down over time and then cycle hard the next time you start the generator.
 
I grew up in Michigan and never had a line or meter freeze, it must be how they are made. Texas line were not winterized either and they had the same event 11yrs ago and never fixed the problem.
Winterizing gas service is more about removing the moisture in the product. It is the moisture that freezes and stops the flow when the lines get clogged with ice. It is not about how the lines are made. Most natural gas that is going to be transported long distances where it might be exposed to cold weather has moisture removed. In Texas the gas was was not winterized because no one thought it would get that cold. Also some equipment which ran on electricity had no backup. Therfore pumps and other equipment failed to move product.
 
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