• Have you tried out dark mode?! Scroll to the bottom of any page to find a sun or moon icon to turn dark mode on or off!

diy solar

diy solar

Solar configuration

Camp20144

New Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Messages
58
I anticipate two situations for the solar side of my portable system. One where I would have 800 Watts of solar (rv roof mount + ground). The other, where I’m only able to have 400 Watts of solar (ground mount only, e.g. camping from boat). I’m looking at Rich Solar 200 Watt panels. My question, would I use a Victron 150/60 SCC, and just have two or four panels connected, or would I be better off with 2 Victron 100/30s (2 panels each)? The price is pretty close either way. The picture is the Rich Solar panel I’m looking at.
Thank you,
 

Attachments

  • 8807CCBB-BC70-4133-B27F-73498D54C8B8.png
    8807CCBB-BC70-4133-B27F-73498D54C8B8.png
    3.2 MB · Views: 17
The solar side will be feeding two 100Ah Battleborn batteries. Power usage based upon charging capacity. Main use - cpap
 
Those high watt solar panels really need to be series wired and ran through an MPPT controller due to the higher than normal voltage for 12 volt, nominal, panels. Good thing you are going the MPPT route. Using a PWM controller would end up wasting a lot of power.

Are you going with a 12 or 24 volt battery bank?
 
I’ve been thinking 12Volt because my use(s) are 12Volt, but I’ve also considered a 24V/12V dc converter to drop to 12Volts. Don’t understand if the trade-offs are there to make 24volt or 12Volt better at this size of system. If my system was larger I understand 24volt or 48volt is better.
 
I’ve been thinking 12Volt because my use(s) are 12Volt, but I’ve also considered a 24V/12V dc converter to drop to 12Volts. Don’t understand if the trade-offs are there to make 24volt or 12Volt better at this size of system. If my system was larger I understand 24volt or 48volt is better.
If you plan to run a inverter off this system anything over 1000-1200 watts should go up to 24 volt system
 
With a 24 volt system you get the same load covered with half the current. You can double the maximum PV wattage with the same controller in the event you want to expand your system. Typically you can use smaller wire between your battery bank and inverter for like sized inverters and wiring design for your battery bank is simpler.
 
Thank you,
@rodrick & @littleharbor2 Okay, I wasn’t sure if my system was large enough to consider 24volt. I haven’t purchased SCC(s) or panels yet, so doable. I will always have the two batteries in the system, so no problem there. I have a Victron BMV-712 and it senses battery voltage so I’m good there.
Where I know I will have times with two 200 watt panels and times with four 200 watt panels, how do I best configure for SCCs? Two SCCs, one each for two panels a piece, or one SCC that would have two or four panels connected?
 
With a 24 volt system you get the same load covered with half the current. You can double the maximum PV wattage with the same controller in the event you want to expand your system. Typically you can use smaller wire between your battery bank and inverter for like sized inverters and wiring design for your battery bank is simpler.
How would you wire 12 v batteries or would you buy a 24 v battery?
 
I have two 12Volt 100Ah batteries, connecting them in series would give 24volts, for a 24 volt system?
 
Personally, I would go with a single controller, panels series wired two at a time. so 2s2p with a 4 panel setup 2s1p for two panels.

Always have the battery connected before you connect the panels.
Yes, and as this is a mobile system requiring connecting system components, I plan on having a list of setup steps to follow.

Here are my calculations - please let me know what I missed.

The numbers for Rich Solar 24volt 200 Watt panels are:
Voc = 45.4V
Isc = 5.83A

2s2p = 90.8V, 11.66A
2s1p = 45.4V, 5.83A

Record low temp for my area is -25F, correction factor 1.23. Voc corrected = (90.8V)(1.23) = 111.68V

111.68V is greater than 100V therefore need SCC rated higher than 100 Volts and Amps greatest at 2p is 11.66
A Victron 150/35 meets this criteria.
 
All good except for one calc. When you add the second string in parallel the current adds but the voltage stays the same.
2s2p = 45.4V, 11.66A x 12 volts = 45 amps. (rounded up)
2s1p = 45.4V, 5.83A
You will need a 45 amp controller for a 12 volt system. If you decide to go 24 volts you can get away with a 25 amp controller.
 
All good except for one calc. When you add the second string in parallel the current adds but the voltage stays the same.
2s2p = 45.4V, 11.66A x 12 volts = 45 amps. (rounded up)
2s1p = 45.4V, 5.83A
You will need a 45 amp controller for a 12 volt system. If you decide to go 24 volts you can get away with a 25 amp controller.
Thank you for catching my adding the volts a second time on my 2s2p string.
 
@littleharbor2 I’m confused, where am I going sideways?
All good except for one calc. When you add the second string in parallel the current adds but the voltage stays the same.
2s2p = 45.4V, 11.66A x 12 volts = 45 amps. (rounded up)
2s1p = 45.4V, 5.83A
You will need a 45 amp controller for a 12 volt system. If you decide to go 24 volts you can get away with a 25 amp controller.
The numbers I used in post #11 are for the 24 Volt 200 Watt Rich Solar panel (for my 12V batteries wired in series for a 24V system)
Voc = 45.4 Volts
Isp = 5.83 Amps

For 2s1p, there are 2 panels total, the 2s (2 panels in series) adds the voltage of the 2 panels = 90.8 Volts
For 2s1p, the amperage is non-additive therefore stays at 5.83 Amps
So for 2s1p, I end up with 90.8 Volts, 5.83 Amps

For 2s2p, there are 4 panels total, 2 sets of 2 panels in series, so there are 2 series strings in parallel.
The series strings are 90.8 Volts, 5.83 Amps (series adds volts values)
Setting the two series strings in parallel makes 90.8 Volts, 11.66 Amps (parallel adds amp values)

This gives me
2s2p 90.8 Volts, 11.66 Amps
2s1p 90.8 Volts, 5.83 Amps

Thank you,
Mark
 
The first time I looked up Rich Solar 200 watt panels I got this first panel. Now I see they have 2 different 200 watt panels. Just goes to show it really is important to list all specs of your components to get accurate, correct answers to your questions. I had assumed the lower voltage panel in a few of my previous answers. My bad for assuming what equipment you are working with.
12 volt version / 24 volt version specs below
Wattage: 200W
Type: Monocrystalline 12 volt/24 volt
Operating Voltage (Vmpp): 20.4V / 37.6V
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 24.3V / 45.4V
Operating Current (Impp): 9.80A / 5.32A
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 10.2A / 5.83A
Size: 58.7" x 26.8" x 1.38" 26.5lbs
 
The first time I looked up Rich Solar 200 watt panels I got this first panel. Now I see they have 2 different 200 watt panels. Just goes to show it really is important to list all specs of your components to get accurate, correct answers to your questions. I had assumed the lower voltage panel in a few of my previous answers. My bad for assuming what equipment you are working with.
12 volt version / 24 volt version specs below
Wattage: 200W
Type: Monocrystalline 12 volt/24 volt
Operating Voltage (Vmpp): 20.4V / 37.6V
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 24.3V / 45.4V
Operating Current (Impp): 9.80A / 5.32A
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 10.2A / 5.83A
Size: 58.7" x 26.8" x 1.38" 26.5lbs
Yes, I agree, I apologize for the confusion on my part. Is my math good for the 2s2p (4 panels) and 2s1p (2 panels) setups?
Please help me understand how you arrived at the 45 amp controller (scc) for 12 volt system and 25 amp controller for a 24 volt system. I know when you go from 12 volts to 24 volts you divide the amps in half. Where I’m looking for assistance is the 45 amp controller size for the 12 volt system. Wouldn’t the 12 controller be figured from (2)(Isc) = (2)(10.2A) = 20.4A? for 2s2p 12V 200 Watt panels?
Thank you,
Mark
[Edit] For the 12 Volt, are you setting the panels all in parallel, (4)(10.2A) = 40.8A (rounding up = 45A controller)
Thank you again,
Mark
 
Last edited:
I used your numbers which are actually Voc. volts. This gave me higher wattage than it should have.
Take rated watts divided by nominal battery voltage.

400 / 12 = 33 1/3 amps, 35 amp controller 400 / 24 = 17 amps. 20 amp controller
800 / 12 = 66 2/3 amps, 70 amp controller. 800 / 24 = 33 1/3 amps. 35 amp controller.
 
I used your numbers which are actually Voc. volts. This gave me higher wattage than it should have.
Take rated watts divided by nominal battery voltage.

400 / 12 = 33 1/3 amps, 35 amp controller 400 / 24 = 17 amps. 20 amp controller
800 / 12 = 66 2/3 amps, 70 amp controller. 800 / 24 = 33 1/3 amps. 35 amp controller.
Thank you again for your assistance. It is very much appreciated!
Mark
 
I anticipate two situations for the solar side of my portable system. One where I would have 800 Watts of solar (rv roof mount + ground). The other, where I’m only able to have 400 Watts of solar (ground mount only, e.g. camping from boat). I’m looking at Rich Solar 200 Watt panels. My question, would I use a Victron 150/60 SCC, and just have two or four panels connected, or would I be better off with 2 Victron 100/30s (2 panels each)? The price is pretty close either way. The picture is the Rich Solar panel I’m looking at.
Thank you,

I have two 12Volt 100Ah batteries, connecting them in series would give 24volts, for a 24 volt system?
Thank you,
@rodrick & @littleharbor2 Okay, I wasn’t sure if my system was large enough to consider 24volt.
I haven’t purchased SCC(s) or panels yet, so doable. I will always have the two batteries in the system, so no problem there. I have a Victron BMV-712 and it senses battery voltage so I’m good there.
Where I know I will have times with two 200 watt panels and times with four 200 watt panels, how do I best configure for SCCs? Two SCCs, one each for two panels a piece, or one SCC that would have two or four panels connected?
Yes, and as this is a mobile system requiring connecting system components, I plan on having a list of setup steps to follow.

Here are my calculations - please let me know what I missed.

The numbers for Rich Solar 24volt 200 Watt panels are:
Voc = 45.4V
Isc = 5.83A

2s2p = 90.8V, 11.66A
2s1p = 45.4V, 5.83A


Record low temp for my area is -25F, correction factor 1.23. Voc corrected = (90.8V)(1.23) = 111.68V

111.68V is greater than 100V therefore need SCC rated higher than 100 Volts and Amps greatest at 2p is 11.66
A Victron 150/35 meets this criteria.
I’ve been thinking 12Volt because my use(s) are 12Volt, but I’ve also considered a 24V/12V dc converter to drop to 12Volts. Don’t understand if the trade-offs are there to make 24volt or 12Volt better at this size of system. If my system was larger I understand 24volt or 48volt is better.

Just to be certain, do you plan to build a single portable system that will be used in both, the 400W/800W scenarios?

What's the biggest load you anticipate you'll ever possibly run on this system?

Do you have an inverter in the plans, or do you plan to power 12v devices only?

Best,
D.
 
Last edited:
Just to be certain, do you plan to build a single portable system that will be used in both, the 400W/800W scenarios?

What's the biggest load you anticipate you'll ever possibly run on this system?

Do you have an inverter in the plans, or do you plan to power 12v devices only?

Best,
D.
I’m thinking of building a single portable system.

I would have my 2 100Ah LiFePO4’s with me. With 400 watts of solar I would be in a pickup canopy, similar low volume accommodations, or boat access beach camping, where I only want to deal with 2 solar panels. My power usage at this level would be 1st priority cpap and then if I have enough power buffer, cell phone recharging and possibly minimal LED lighting. When I have my slide-in camper I would carry the 4 200 Watt panels. Again 1st priority is cpap, then phone charging, some LED lighting, I may add microwave usage (2-3 minute reheat prepared from home food) with the addition of a 1200-1500 Watt inverter. My microwave is 800 or 900 watts. I’ve seen people write on here that you should have more inverter than intended use. Therefore the 1200-1500 watts.

Most cooking, coffee etc. is propane in the camper. Most of this type camping is “off season” so cooler possibly some around freezing so water will be in containers so I don’t have to worry about water pump or re-winterizing the camper. It won’t be that cold so warmth is maintained through proper clothing layers.
 
@Daxo I’ve wondered about running the system with a large enough solar controller to carry the 800 watts of pv or having 2 smaller solar controllers that were sized to 400 watts pv each. It’s pretty close to the same price, one larger, or 2 smaller. Under the larger solar controller I would connect either 400 or 800 watts of pv depending on my camping situation. With the 2 smaller, one would just set idle disconnected.
 
@Camp20144

I'm not familiar with a CPAP, did a quick search for it, is this a machine for sleep apnea?

If so, it is the single most determining factor in this system design. Knowing your cpap machine power supply specifications would be invaluable.

What does it use, DC or AC for power supply? Wattage?


Other than that, I can see multiple reasons why this should be a 12V system in my humble opinion.

Yet again, cpap power supply will determine all the tiny bits and pieces of what goes and what doesn't.


Best,
D.
 
@Camp20144

I'm not familiar with a CPAP, did a quick search for it, is this a machine for sleep apnea?

If so, it is the single most determining factor in this system design. Knowing your cpap machine power supply specifications would be invaluable.

What does it use, DC or AC for power supply? Wattage?


Other than that, I can see multiple reasons why this should be a 12V system in my humble opinion.

Yet again, cpap power supply will determine all the tiny bits and pieces of what goes and what doesn't.


Best,
D.
Yes, a cpap is for sleep apnea (a must have for me).

I have the 12 volt power supply cord for my cpap that connects to a battery with a “cigarette lighter” power outlet. At home I use the 110 volt power supply. The 110 volt power supply, is a 110 volt ac to 12 volt dc converter. It outputs 6.67 amps @ 12 volts. That 6.67 amps is enough to power the cpap, the heated humidifier and heated hose. I have the ability to shut the power off to the humidifier and the heated hose. I figured a worst case power use scenario is 6.67A, or 80 watts/hour, 7 hour night 560Wh.

I have 2 100Ah Battleborn batteries, BMV-712 smart meter and shunt, fuse block, and female “cigarette” socket. I’m ordering the wiring and fuses to get those connected so that I can run my cpap off battery to get actual Watt hours using the BMV-712.
 
@Daxo Thank you for your assistance.

I was looking through the Resources section and it looks like at 800 watts of solar I’m in the could be 12 volt or 24 volt. What I see as an issue with 24 volt is I have to then drop the 24 volts back down to 12 volts. It appears that subjects me to efficiency losses that I shouldn’t have to deal with. Some have mentioned 24 volts for expansion of the system. After thinking about it, I don’t foresee expanding this system. If I pursued a larger system in the future I would start that larger system from scratch. I will always have use for this size system. So at this point I think it would remain intact at 12 volts and 400 or 800 watts pv.

Thank you,
Mark
 
@Camp20144

I read the whole thread again just to have all the details fresh.

I try to take each and all of the specifics and run them all simultaneously against each other, such as design goal, budget, components, how things work, cost, performance, and so on and on till finding the system design golden middle between any and all of the given specifics.

With that said, not certain but this time reading, I've noticed you aren't looking for the cheapest SCC but rather are more interested in the best option for your needs. Is that the case? This might come into play later.


The following is merely my take on your solar build, a mere suggestion or food for thought if you will. Hopefully, you find some of it useful.

Yet, since you are the one who will build, operate and maintain this system, it's mandatory to take the time and learn all the ins and outs of a solar panel system, as your safety is entirely in your hands from the get-go. Ask questions, ask a lot of questions here and in other places such as FB groups etc.

Always triple-check anything and everything anyone, myself included, suggests to you. Run the ideas by other folks in multiple places.



The system voltage part;

Since you already have two 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries and your primary use of this system is to power a CPAP device whose native voltage is 12V, having two batteries in parallel(12V system voltage) is preferable in my opinion. In fact, a system redundancy where possible is a must.

Why?

If you use 2x12V 100Ah in series to get to a 24V system voltage 100Ah capacity, if, for whatever reason one of the batteries stops working your entire system is down. With a CPAP device, I believe this is a big no-no.

Also, on top of that, you would be dealing with either an additional device to keep the two batteries balanced or additional maintenance every 6 months.

With the two 12V 100Ah batteries in parallel to get a 12V system voltage 200Ah capacity, you gain battery storage redundancy where if one of the batteries fails, your system will keep running the device. That's a (y) in my book.


At this point, things are getting better and better because you could use MRBF fuses now, including for the SCC, Inverter, and even as a main battery terminal fuse.

MRBF is reliable, practical, and compact, but also cheaper than say a class T fuse as a terminal fuse. It has an acceptable Arc breaking capacity @12V/ 10 000A. Heck, If it's safe to be used on boats 100 miles out at the sea, I guess it must be pretty darn safe and reliable altogether.

The nice thing about having 2x 12V batteries in parallel is if you use cables of the same length to connect to a common busbar for both batteries separately, the positive and negative battery terminals, you can fuse each battery separately by a factor of 1.25x max current the battery can deliver. (take BMS rating for reference) See the diagram below.
common busbar.png

In doing so, you can use the same gauge wire for these connections, at the same time make sure the charging and load current are equally distributed, and above all, you gain a battery storage redundancy where if one fails, the other keeps running. Also, if one of the batteries stops working, you can take the bad one out till you get the replacement and obviously, keep your system running at half the storage and a reduced inverter capacity in the meantime.

Again, this would not be possible in a 24V system using only two 12V batteries.

Now, the nice thing about the 24V system is that you are dealing with half the amps across the board than you would be at the 12V system. Yet, up to 1500W AC(post-Inverter efficiency losses and cutout voltage calculation), amps should be very manageable at a 12V system with 200Ah capacity.

More specifically, you've said previously that your biggest planned load is a 900W microwave for a few minutes run so this should not present any problem for such a battery bank in my humble opinion.

To be continued...

I'll wait till you read this post to see what are your thoughts on this before proceeding to the SCC/solar panel part.

Best,
D.
 
Last edited:

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top