diy solar

diy solar

Solar Installation By Previous Owner - Advice Sought

I’m working so I’m not always here. But the times I’ve ‘caught’ it, the cc is dumping ~15.5V periodically and I see well over 14V charging regularly.
Empirically lithium batteries have advantages, sure, but fla works. I’ve depended on solar for 3 years now. Time will tell, but until I go to or want a ‘big’ system lifepo won’t be in my plans. I will consider lithium probably in two more years or so which is about when I won’t be surprised if the lead batteries start to decline. They may go longer? I don’t know.
I have money now, but three years ago the buy-in on fancy batteries was a no-go anyway. Since it was only $160 for two cheap fla deep cycles, THAT was possible. And it’s been fine.
The advantages to fla for me now are essentially three: 1) I have them working well 2) replacements are casually, cheaply, and easily available 3) lithium batteries have come a long way the last couple years but aren’t fully ‘mature’ yet; another year or two they may be even better :)
My stuff has been paid for a couple years ago. Every week and the longer it goes on the more they pay me back so to speak.
 
Your lake frontage has clear Southern exposure?
Panels there would have unobstructed view of the sun. During winter, extra light reflected off water.
Compared to cabin roof, potential thieves would also have unobstructed view of the panels.

Yes, I realize it would be much better to have ground mounted facing the lake - but that's a project for down the road. I'm quite busy these days and that will require more work than I have time for at the moment. The ground is very rocky, so i'm not sure how I would run the connection to the cottage. Would be VERY hard to bury the line in some places. I've considered stringing using the trees like electrical poles, but not sure how safe that would be - especially since the wind knocked over a few trees as well this year!

The major electrical draw for us is our jet-pump; we have a propane fridge and hot water heater. I would love to replace those with electric in a few years once I can set up a proper ground array by the lakeside.

Rin67630:

I always thought that between Montpellier and Berlin you have around 1000 miles and need a looong drive over n highways.
Canadians can cycle from Berlin to Montpelier in 10 minutes...

hahahahah, took me awhile to get your joke but I eventually realized you were talking about 12VoltInstalls who lives in VT (USA) not Canada ;) I then found Berlin VT on the map :)
 
hahahahah, took me awhile to get your joke but I eventually realized you were talking about 12VoltInstalls who lives in VT (USA) not Canada ;) I then found Berlin VT on the map :)
and Hanover is a part of Lebanon there...
They seem to have a strange sense of geography in Vermont.

Where is your location?
 
Yes, I realize it would be much better to have ground mounted facing the lake...
You would probably run the best re-paneling at the same roof location with 2 or 3 panels oriented SE and 2 or 3 panels oriented SW with a fixed 45° tilt on a sound mechanical wind-proof frame.

Mounting panels far away would only be advisable if you can run at high voltages.
But then it will not by a DIY project any more.
DC high voltage is a major killer and can build dreadful several feet long flashing arcs...
 
The major electrical draw for us is our jet-pump; we have a propane fridge and hot water heater. I would love to replace those with electric in a few years once I can set up a proper ground array by the lakeside.

You may be able to do the fridge what whatever panels you have on the cabin. Look up consumer energy labels to get kWh consumption. Does the inverter have a sleep mode where its output is off most of the time when no AC loads turned on?


Jet pump is two power hits. Induction motor with its starting surge, and inefficiency of jet system.
How deep is the water?
I suppose "jet" implies 2" well casing.
There are some 2" submersible pumps.

Years ago, Grainger had a 2" 3-phase monitoring well pump with 12V battery powered inverter for a couple thousand dollars.
These days all I see are $150 far East 2" pumps, have to wonder about lifespan.

Years ago, Real Goods had jack pumps that could do very deep wells, with motor above ground geared to whatever was needed for speed/torque. I haven't found any commercially available jack pumps for home water lately. I think these have the potential to be most efficient, and best right-sized to your consumption.

So you're running about a 1/2 HP or 1 HP induction motor with MSW inverter?
PSW might be nicer.
Above ground means easy to swap motor or complete pump. If you can find an affordable 3-phase motor and VFD, that will be soft-start and you can adjust speed for reasonable balance of power draw, jet efficiency, water volume.

But cheap VFD with diode/capacitor front end have poor power factor; current draw is just clipping peaks off sine wave (as I documented with scope traces in another thread.)
I'm not sure how well a "high frequency" inverter will work with a VFD. I think I saw an issue with a transformerless GT PV inverter. No problem with my transformer type Sunny Island battery inverter, and another guy runs one with an Outback transformer type inverter.
 
Where is your location?

Just West of Bancroft, Ontario Canada

You may be able to do the fridge what whatever panels you have on the cabin. Look up consumer energy labels to get kWh consumption. Does the inverter have a sleep mode where its output is off most of the time when no AC loads turned on?

So you're running about a 1/2 HP or 1 HP induction motor with MSW inverter?
PSW might be nicer.
Above ground means easy to swap motor or complete pump. If you can find an affordable 3-phase motor and VFD, that will be soft-start and you can adjust speed for reasonable balance of power draw, jet efficiency, water volume.

But cheap VFD with diode/capacitor front end have poor power factor; current draw is just clipping peaks off sine wave (as I documented with scope traces in another thread.)
I'm not sure how well a "high frequency" inverter will work with a VFD. I think I saw an issue with a transformerless GT PV inverter. No problem with my transformer type Sunny Island battery inverter, and another guy runs one with an Outback transformer type inverter.

Yes, its a 1/2 HP Jet pump that sits half-way between the lake and pressure-tank (about 30 foot rise over 80 feet from lake to tank). We use lake water with a U/V filtration system - which combined with the jet-pump is 80 percent of our electrical needs at the moment. Yes, the inverter has a power-saver mode but with the 43 watt U/V light running 24/7 when we are there, it never goes to sleep. I've considered turning off the UV light when we aren't using water, but it's just too risky - one person forgetting and turning on a tap or flushing a toilet will require complete sanitization of the water system again which is a major pain.

The jet pump is first on the list for replacement once I upgrade the inverter! I figured no point spending money on a more efficient pump until I have reliable power delivery for it. Appreciate the tips on pump selection!
 
I've considered turning off the UV light when we aren't using water, but it's just too risky - one person forgetting and turning on a tap or flushing a toilet will require complete sanitization of the water system again which is a major pain.
Sounds like you could make some improvements here also. Putting a pressure tank on the backside of the UV light would allow you to treat a volume of water for reserve. That way a single flush or short tap run would not cause contamination issues. When the pressure tank gets low, and calls for the pump to run, the UV light also turns on, runs for the time that pump runs and you store back up a reserve of treated water.

Since this has wondered into a disucssion of you entire off grid setup... what are you guys doing for a generator backup?
 
There are quite a number of brushless very efficient DC well pumps on the market, you could also use intermediary pumps along so not forwarding the whole 80feet in one step.
You may even use the old solar panels directly feeding the pumps at the lake level, which could offset a good part of your power budget for water production.
Would that be a solution?
 
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Less than 30' from lake to pump, no need for jet extractor.
With a foot valve, suction pump with sufficient lift would work. Maybe the existing pump. Just need pipe free of air leaks.
You do have to prevent freeze damage, whether suction or jet, with pipe always filled with water. Possibly something like poly would tolerate some expansion. I've imagined a silicone hose pressurized with air inside a pipe to provide expansion room.
Maybe a lift pump could have discharge side drain-back for protection. That would also serve as an unloader.

Positive displacement pump would be lower power. Could be an inexpensive SurFlow pump.


Since you have a line from cabin to water anyway, could run PV wires in conduit on same path.
I've bought UF cable, added plug/socket, and unrolled over the ground. Subject to damage of course, but after a couple years of leaves falling it is concealed. That would be less risky for AC with GFCI, but high-voltage DC from PV could be deadly. Best to have appropriate conduit e.g. rigid if above-ground.

The right way:


43W load and similar amount of power consumed by inverter idling.
You could probably use a timer (HF has one with rechargeable battery) to cycle it periodically, given a batch tank for treatment. Maybe separate untreated tank and pump/valve to transfer and treat whenever level drops. After filling, let treatment run for sufficient time before transferring to other tank for use. Or continuous treatment of inlet flow, and only have pump produce that flow occasionally?

I think a separate sub-micron filter would be good additional protection from giardia. I read that's what ski resorts were using. Maybe DE filter is that good? I'm not sure if some water gets past he media.

Our local waste water treatment plant uses chlorination and then removes chlorine as final steps before discharging to SF bay.
 
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These situations are always difficult since folks often end up making minor changes and then later undo all those changes to do a proper rebuild. It ends up being more work and more money.

I'm in the "don't put holes in your roof" camp. First thing I would do is get those off the roof.
 
The right way: vermeer-commander
Will you manage to bring that neat tiny device to the op's remote location? ;-)
That looks more like a brute force attempt to destroy as much nature as possible in the minimum of time.

"In addition, the cabin is quite remote, and it's been impossible to find anyone willing to come "fix" the situation..."

A smarter solution is possibly expected.
But you were joking, weren't you?
 
Will you manage to bring that neat tiny device to the op's remote location? ;-)
That looks more like a brute force attempt to destroy as much nature as possible in the minimum of time.

"In addition, the cabin is quite remote, and it's been impossible to find anyone willing to come "fix" the situation..."

A smarter solution is possibly expected.
But you were joking, weren't you?

Yes, joking. But he said solid rock, so this is the best way to bury in rock.
I've got a similar size D6 on my property, with a blade and a backhoe.
Not much rock in my case, and I have chain trencher with 4' boom. At least that one is electric start. Easier for me to transport, too.

My smarter solution was, "You've already got a water line from lake to cabin, so use rigid conduit along same path for PV wires."
 
Yes, joking. But he said solid rock, so this is the best way to bury in rock.
I've got a similar size D6 on my property, with a blade and a backhoe.
Not much rock in my case, and I have chain trencher with 4' boom. At least that one is electric start. Easier for me to transport, too.

My smarter solution was, "You've already got a water line from lake to cabin, so use rigid conduit along same path for PV wires."
My smarter solution is: let half of the PV remain locally at the lake to drive the water pumps (op's main power draw), so you don't need to install power lines at all, use brushless DC pumps.
 
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By the way: looking for your location at Google maps, I found something funny:

I always thought that between Montpellier and Berlin you have around 1000 miles and need a looong drive over n highways.
Canadians can cycle from Berlin to Montpelier in 10 minutes...
Cool!
:p
Well Montpelier is an hour south of here :) By car.

Hanover snd Lebanon, however, are in New Hampshire.

on topic: I wouldn’t use the jet pump for on-demand water. I myself have a 275 gallon water tank. One of those square tanks on a plastic pallet base with a steel cage.
In your case I would do the same. Those tanks are generally available around here for US$50 to US$100 or so. Which is like Canadian$900 so not expensive lol. Basically it’s a reservoir for treated water- you could even add the CDC recommendation for bleach if you don’t have confidence in maintaining tanked water. A pressure-buffered 12V pump would provide service pressure.

I would probably use a demand propane water heater, however. No concerns with cold showers or recovery time that way. Or cloudy days.
 
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That second structure looks ideal for a larger array facing the lake, well out of the tall tree's shadows, and without needing strange mounting structures to get them pointed.

I'd look at that and renting a trencher....
 
Sounds like you could make some improvements here also. Putting a pressure tank on the backside of the UV light would allow you to treat a volume of water for reserve. That way a single flush or short tap run would not cause contamination issues. When the pressure tank gets low, and calls for the pump to run, the UV light also turns on, runs for the time that pump runs and you store back up a reserve of treated water.

Since this has wondered into a disucssion of you entire off grid setup... what are you guys doing for a generator backup?

I asked the guy who installed it about that - and he said they always install them _after_ the pressure tank so that you don't have water sitting in the tank for (potentially) weeks before you use it. I'm not convinced though - I'll have to research it more. As for generator, I just have an inexpensive Champion 5500 watt - the inverter has a hard-wired 120V extension wire that plugs into a normal receptacle on the generator.

There are quite a number of brushless very efficient DC well pumps on the market, you could also use intermediary pumps along so not forwarding the whole 80feet in one step.
You may even use the old solar panels directly feeding the pumps at the lake level, which could offset a good part of your power budget for water production.
Would that be a solution?
That's definitely an option I will look into... good idea thanks!

I think a separate sub-micron filter would be good additional protection from giardia. I read that's what ski resorts were using. Maybe DE filter is that good? I'm not sure if some water gets past he media.

Haven't had any issues drinking the water yet (knock on wood) but I like this idea. I'll add that into the line!

Hey xhumeka, thanks for sharing such nice information, I appreciate your effort.

No problem, glad you are appreciating the information. I appreciate all the posts on this site as well, it sure has provided a wealth of knowledge!

That second structure looks ideal for a larger array facing the lake, well out of the tall tree's shadows, and without needing strange mounting structures to get them pointed.

I'd look at that and renting a trencher....

Unfortunately we are losing that structure - the municipality says it's an "illegal building" because it's a 2-storey accessory structure. Even as remote as this hunt-camp, we are still bothered by municipal red tape!!! Not sure what we are doing with that space after it's torn down, but I also think that's a good spot for either a ground array or roof mount (if we build another structure).

Running power from lakeside to the cottage inside PVC piping is an option alright - but for the time being I think I'll stick with the idea of flat-mounting some replacement panels to the roof to tide us over a few years.

I'm off work next week, so I'm hoping to start on this project then. I'll keep the thread updated!

Thanks again everyone for all your great tips/advice/suggestions!
 
Rin is making a very good observation. Now that my attention is drawn to it, I see the shade from the large tree to the south of the cabin. Could you take three pictures with your drone, one at say 9am, another at noon, and a third at 3pm? That will give us a better idea of shading problems.

Hi Michael - I finally had time to snap the suggested drone pics, please see below:

9am:

NRHoXqi.jpg


Noon:

jTd8GW5.jpg


3pm:

hxl6ccB.jpg


And 6pm for good measure:

seO8EnQ.jpg



I was also able to pick up some additional used panels; here is my current inventory:

AHyay9j.png


And finally, here are my string thoughts... I'm definitely going with the first 3 (unless otherwise advised), and considering adding the 4th:

Zr2Wscs.png


Open to help with planning locations for strings based on pics of shading during the day. Thanks all!!! This site and the contributors to this thread have been IMMENSELY helpful with my planning!

-Xhumeka
 
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Good photos, I think they are very helpful. I'm looking at the empty spot to the left of your main cabin, and above and slightly to the right of your small structure. That appears to be in full sun most of the day, finally getting deep shade late in the afternoon.

That looks like the best spot to position a ground array. I think you could easily squeeze in 1500W there. I can see that one big tree to the left of the main cabin, and directly above the small building. Would it be acceptable to cut that tree down? Could you pole off a few of the south-facing branches and squeeze in even more panels.

What exactly is the smaller structure? Mother-in-law cabin, or just for the kids? What I would envision using for is make it the main repository for your solar system, with batteries, electronics, and stuff placed in there, then sending the AC power to both the small structure, and the main cabin.
 
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