Solar Panel scam?

[JohnnyDangerDude]

I recently purchased some advertised 400W solar panels on ebay.

The solar panel is very very small. It is about 1/3 the size of my 200W bi facial panels, half the size of my 120W flexible solar panel and my older 100W panel from years ago that I never got to setup .

If I were to estimate how many watts this is from the size, I would say maybe between 20-50.

All the other panels come information and specs on the panel itself. This one is printed in black on black so small that you can't see what it said. I even took several pictures and tried to enlarge them and you still can't tell. It might say like 500V but I'm not sure. Don't panels normally come 12 or 24V not 500V?

I am wondering if this is the same kind of scam as the old flash memory scam.

There use to be a flash memory scam where people might take a 8GB flash memory and hack it to tell the computers thats its like 512GB or somethig. Then it would work up to around 8GB but if you tried to put more files on it, it would slow down, crash and get corrupted.

500V and .80 amps = 400W.
500V and .10 amp = 50W

amps not disclosed anywhere or watts.

What do you guys think? Is it a ebay scam?

 

[RussNM]

My guess is that tiny panel is able to produce 400w total during daylight conditions. Twisting up a word salad in their description.

 

[Mattb4]

No shortage of falsely rated solar panels for sale. As you note the size can not possibly match the claimed wattage. At least it is outlandish enough that most can spot it. However there are many panels being sold on Ebay, Amazon and others that may look like they might be OK, but until you do the math you are unaware.

STC for panels is 1000W per square meter. Panel efficiency then tells you what the watt rating should be ( Ex: A 1 square meter panel at 20% efficiency gives you 200W). If they give the panels size it is a just a moment with a calculator (and perhaps a sqin to sqm online converter) to multiply length time width and get a square area measurement.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

My guess is that tiny panel is able to produce 400w total during daylight conditions. Twisting up a word salad in their description.

How is that possible that something that is like 1/3 the size of a 200W solar panel can produce 400W?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

How is that possible that something that is like 1/3 the size of a 200W solar panel can produce 400W?

It can be done.
Thare are panels that do it
Problem the cost to make them and the life time use sucks.
So its only in laboratory test in 100% perfect condition.

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Er is een nieuwe speler verschenen in de strijd om de beste zonnecel. Lange tijd werden perovskiet-zonnecellen, die in theorie veel meer energie uit de zon kunnen wekken, gezien als te kwetsbaar. Maar een nieuwe hybride versie met perovskiet kan dat probleem eindelijk opgelost hebben.

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About 25% today


Other new panels type

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[Mattb4]

How is that possible that something that is like 1/3 the size of a 200W solar panel can produce 400W?

Its not possible. Some folks however confuse watt-hours and watts. A 100W panel with a average sun day of 4 hours can be said to produce 400Wh.

 

[Brett V]

Its not possible. Some folks however confuse watt-hours and watts. A 100W panel with a average sun day of 4 hours can be said to produce 400Wh.

This is exactly what they do.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

Its not possible. Some folks however confuse watt-hours and watts. A 100W panel with a average sun day of 4 hours can be said to produce 400Wh.

Ebay page said " 400W 12V Off-Grid Monocrystalline Solar Panel Solar Module for RV Trailer Marine"

It said W as in Watts not WH(Watt Hours), also said its 26"X20" inches in size.

oh, do you mean the seller may have been confused and is advertising watt hours as the watts?

What is also odd is the lack of documentation or even printed no the solar panels anything about how many watts.

 

[robbob2112]

Ebay page said " 400W 12V Off-Grid Monocrystalline Solar Panel Solar Module for RV Trailer Marine"

It said W as in Watts not WH(Watt Hours), also said its 26"X20" inches in size.

They lied

 

[Mattb4]

Ebay page said " 400W 12V Off-Grid Monocrystalline Solar Panel Solar Module for RV Trailer Marine"

It said W as in Watts not WH(Watt Hours), also said its 26"X20" inches in size.

Do the math.
26" X 20"= 520sqin. Using a quick on line converter this gives .335sqm.
If the panel was 20% efficient it could only produce
.335sqm X 200W/sqm=67W

 

[OzSolar]

Ebay page said " 400W 12V Off-Grid Monocrystalline Solar Panel Solar Module for RV Trailer Marine"

It said W as in Watts not WH(Watt Hours), also said its 26"X20" inches in size.

The size was one clue. That sounds more like a 40 or 50 watt module to me.

I'm guessing the price should have also been a clue. EG: Did you get a smoking good deal on a 400 watt panel or did you pay about the going rate for a 40 watt module?

 

[Glock24]

Ebay page said " 400W 12V Off-Grid Monocrystalline Solar Panel Solar Module for RV Trailer Marine"

It said W as in Watts not WH(Watt Hours), also said its 26"X20" inches in size.

oh, do you mean the seller may have been confused and is advertising watt hours as the watts?

What is also odd is the lack of documentation or even printed no the solar panels anything about how many watts.

I searched eBay for a listing with this description and found it, indeed it says 400W but when you go to details it says:

Features:
Maximum Power: 400W
Maximum Power Current(IMP): 2.77A
Maximum Power Voltage(VMP): 18.0V
Short Circuit Current(ISC): 3.23A
Temperature Range:-40°F-180°F
Power Tolerance: 0-3%
Solar Cell: Monocrystalline Grade A+
Open Circuit Voltage(VOC) :22V
SIZE：67*57cm

That's a 50W panel. I would say yes, it is a scam and I would report it.

 

[Glock24]

The size was one clue. That sounds more like a 40 or 50 watt module to me.

I'm guessing the price should have also been a clue. EG: Did you get a smoking good deal on a 400 watt panel or did you pay about the going rate for a 40 watt module?

The listing I found says $138.99. In my country where everything is more expensive than in the US the 450W panels go for around $125.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

The size was one clue. That sounds more like a 40 or 50 watt module to me.

I'm guessing the price should have also been a clue. EG: Did you get a smoking good deal on a 400 watt panel or did you pay about the going rate for a 40 watt module?

Hopefully a reasonable price for a 40w panel or free returns. Hard to find groundbreaking, cutting edge tech on ebay.
I have read about panels that collect over 40% but may take years if not decades to be economically feasible to mass produce.

 

[Mattb4]

Even at 40% efficiency .335sqm X 400W/sqm= 134W

Come on folks the math is not hard.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

The size was one clue. That sounds more like a 40 or 50 watt module to me.

I'm guessing the price should have also been a clue. EG: Did you get a smoking good deal on a 400 watt panel or did you pay about the going rate for a 40 watt module?

I am not really an expert on Solar panel prices but it was a bit lower then what I had paid when I got the 200W Solar panel a few weeks ago from a more reputable ebay seller.

This time, I paid about .34 cents per watt. I don't know the prices on solar panels but I think it sounded like a pretty good deal.

 

[Quattrohead]

You have been had, simple as.

 

[robbob2112]

Sometimes you pay more than the going rate on ebay because it costs a fortune to ship just 2 panels and have to replace those that get broken. If you search similar panels on Amazon they will cost more than the going rate for the same reason. But the panels from amazon are more often than not exactly what you order.

"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is"

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

Sometimes you pay more than the going rate on ebay because it costs a fortune to ship just 2 panels and have to replace those that get broken. If you search similar panels on Amazon they will cost more than the going rate for the same reason. But the panels from amazon are more often than not exactly what you order.

"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is"

There was another guy on Ebay who has always delivered exactly what he promised.

The problem is the type of mount I need for a flat surface that use a ballast instead of screwing into the roof are difficult to get and cost a ton. They are adjustable so you can fit a certain number of panels regardless of size. So I figured I would get the biggest panel that I could.

I did not realize Ebay also had counterfeit sellers.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

By the way, I just got in my "500W" solar panel and somehow it's even smaller than the counterfeit 400W solar panels. 15" X 12.5" and looks like they took a picture fame and put a solar cells inside. Does not even look water tight. This one was a better deal than the first one at 13.8 cents per watt. I would estimate this is the size of a 10W-30W solar panel being advertised as 500W

Maybe they think someone buying one of these will only own 1 solar panel and have no idea that the size is totally wrong? I don't know how they think they will get away with this? Do people buy these but not notice?

 

[robbob2112]

NEVER trust anything on ebay - scambay - etc.... in certain catagories when you know the exact part number you are looking for ebay can be good, expecially for old stuff that isn't mfg anymore.

But with Solar and batteries always verify exactly what it says/is and even then good luck. Some battery vendors sell direct, ebay, and amazon. I usually buy off amazon because the prices are the same, but the return policy makes it harder to get ripped off.

Note on amazon - there are MANY fake fuses, fuse holders, bus bars and tools. The AMZCNC hydraulic crimper is an example - metric dies but marked in awg. Many of the lugs that aren't brand name like Temco, BayMarine, Blue Sea Systems, Selterm, and others are good... but there are a lot of paper thin ones. Bus bars - there are tons on there that are $15 for 2 x 300amp. They claim pure copper but are really brass that is plated and they are paper thin - doing the math a lot won't do 100amps even though rated at 300amps.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

For reference, this is a 650W monocrystaline panel. It measures 94"x52" in freedom units (larger than a sheet of plywood). Plan and shop accordingly.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

For reference, this is a 650W monocrystaline panel. It measures 94"x52" in freedom units (larger than a sheet of plywood). Plan and shop accordingly.

It's like that case where the police arrested a women who was the mother to a 30 year old son who was accused of being another person who was 28.

She was like, how can a 28 year old women have a 30 year old son? That would means she had a child while being negative 2 years old. It's not physically possible.

Well, have a 100W panel which is a certain size, a 200W panel that is larger than the 100W panel which makes sense.

However, then it goes off the rails when I supposedly get a 400W panel that is smaller than the 100W panel and a supposed 500W panel smaller than any of the panels on what appears to be like a 20W size.

Thanks for giving me a size reference for what a real 650W panel looks like.

 

[JohnnyDangerDude]

Even at 40% efficiency .335sqm X 400W/sqm= 134W

Come on folks the math is not hard.

The Ebay seller's response " For the 400W solar panel you order, this is mini upgraded style. here is the ideal test data, if test under ideal situation, you‘ll get 400W:
AM=1.5
Irradiance=1000W/㎡
Temperature = 25°
To go to 400WAnd we recommend that you connect the electrical appliances within the rated power, and tear off the protective film on the solar panel to better absorb sunlight, so as to get better use effect."

So this is his explanation.

I'm not sure where to even start. I think I will translate this

25 degrees may be C, so he may mean 77F
AM may be amps?
square meter = 10.7639 square FT
So 1000W per 10.76 square feet
Average solar efficiency is 15–22%

So if you assume this is about 2 square feet with 20% efficiency

My back of the envelope rough estimate ballpark non-exact math tell me:

1,000 X .20%= 200W per 10.76 square FT
This is about 1/5 the size of the example, so I will multiply by .20 as 1/5 of 100.

200W X .20 = 40W


So I think he is just throwing out random tech jargon to try to push his product then he is offering a " partial refund"

 

[sunshine_eggo]

A 400W panel should be about 2 sq-m or about 22 sq-ft

Thread 'How to not get completely scammed when purchasing solar panels.'

Oct 16, 2020

Too many times folks purchase panels from something like Wish or from anonymous on eBay, and they later realize they were sold LIES.

Sanity check your purchase in the following two ways:

Panel Length, L, in meters
Panel Width, W, in meters.

1000W/m^2 * L * W * 0.2 = absolute maximum possible power output from the panel.

Additionally, you can multiply Vmp and Imp to get max power. That should get you a near exact number.

If those aren't available Voc and Isc values can be multiplied to an optimistically high number by 20-30%.

The less information available to confirm the above, the...

• snoobler
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Solar Panels

• 

Vmp * Imp = STC power

18Vmp * 2.77Imp = 49.86 = 50W

Insist on a full refund.