Solar tax credit? Fair or unfair?

[Tulex]

I also study a lot of history and I understand why we created systems of governance and what purpose they serve.

But everything needs some form of checks and balances. A negative feedback loop. Having an unlimited money printer controlled by a system that can issue as many subsidies as it wants is not going to be sustainable.

We started that way. Our forefathers had no way to anticipate how government could morph. Info that took weeks to spread now takes seconds.
I can't imagine they could foresee hundreds of departments handing out moneys.

Every time someone supports a subsidy, I hope they understand that, if they believe in that subsidy, then every person has a right to believe in their subsidy of choice from their favorite department.

 

[Will Prowse]

When it comes to solar, don't you guys find it interesting that in all the other countries it is three times cheaper for a system, but here (where we have the solar tax credit), it's more expensive overall? How is the government helping us?

imposing tarrifs and excessive taxes on manufactured goods, then implementing a tax credit is plain silly. We now have to pay to regulate all of that.

 

[cs1234]

I also study a lot of history and I understand why we created systems of governance and what purpose they serve.

But everything needs some form of checks and balances. A negative feedback loop. Having an unlimited money printer controlled by a system that can issue as many subsidies as it wants is not going to be sustainable.

Capitalism itself needs checks and balances as well. Subsidies in and of themselves aren't bad, they have a time and place, just like some services should be funded by tax dollars and not be private (policing for example). The real problem isn't Capitalism, or the government subsidizing things, it's that we've got a horribly corrupt government sucking on the tit of Corporate donors. If you make an omelette with bad eggs, it doesn't matter how good the ham, peppers and onions you put in it are, it's going to be nasty.

 

[HRTKD]

I always thought what the government needs to do right is clean water and electricity and sewage. And going by Flint Michigan's water, grid blackouts in California, increasing electricity costs, droughts all over the west, they're not doing a very good job are they?

And roads. Driving through the western states, I get a feel for what states are - or aren't - focused on. Poor roads = no focus on the basics that government should be working on.

 

[solar8484]

When it comes to solar, don't you guys find it interesting that in all the other countries it is three times cheaper for a system, but here (where we have the solar tax credit), it's more expensive overall? How is the government helping us?

imposing tarrifs and excessive taxes on manufactured goods, then implementing a tax credit is plain silly. We now have to pay to regulate all of that.

What other countries specifically?

 

[Will Prowse]

What other countries specifically?

Thailand, Japan, Hong Kong, Beijing, manila and that's about it. For a few months. Taught me a lot about the world 🫩

 

[cs1234]

Thailand, Japan, Hong Kong, Beijing, manila and that's about it. For a few months. Taught me a lot about the world 🫩

I think he was asking which countries have solar for 3x cheaper than the states. Not countries you have visited.

 

[solar8484]

Thailand, Japan, Hong Kong, Beijing, manila and that's about it. For a few months. Taught me a lot about the world 🫩

I can certainly see Hong Kong/Beijing having much lower cost for solar than the US as they are part of China which has a history of heavy subsidies for solar/renewable energy. However, it's not really appropriate to compare the US with non-industrialized nations in absolute costs. I believe Japan is the only industrialized nation you listed and they also have a history heavy subsidies. But I doubt solar is 3x cheaper in Japan than the US. I would interested to see more info on that. In any case, I would agree that cost for solar is much too high in the US.

 

[SolarTruthSeeker]

I can certainly see Hong Kong/Beijing having much lower cost for solar than the US as they are part of China which has a history of heavy subsidies for solar/renewable energy. However, it's not really appropriate to compare the US with non-industrialized nations in absolute costs. I believe Japan is the only industrialized nation you listed and they also have a history heavy subsidies. But I doubt solar is 3x cheaper in Japan than the US. I would interested to see more info on that. In any case, I would agree that cost for solar is much too high in the US.

europe, australia, asia, middle east, africa, basically anywhere where shipping and taxes aren't going to make up the majority of the cost. 400 watt solar panels in europe are +/- 30-60 euros, in the US you are looking at +/-$100-$180 for the same panels

 

[solar8484]

europe, australia, asia, middle east, africa, basically anywhere where shipping and taxes aren't going to make up the majority of the cost. 400 watt solar panels in europe are +/- 30-60 euros, in the US you are looking at +/-$100-$180 for the same panels

Do you mean shipping cost within a country?

I have looked at solar in Australia in some detail and visited in the past and it has lots of federal and state subsidies for solar/renewables. Still, the cost is up to 5x cheaper than the US. So, at least for Australia the cost difference is not explained by subsidies vs no subsidies.

 

[SolarTruthSeeker]

When it comes to solar, don't you guys find it interesting that in all the other countries it is three times cheaper for a system, but here (where we have the solar tax credit), it's more expensive

^

Do you mean shipping cost within a country?

To the end user, most of it comes from Asia

 

[Zwy]

And roads. Driving through the western states, I get a feel for what states are - or aren't - focused on. Poor roads = no focus on the basics that government should be working on.

Did I70 east of Limon ever get fixed? Just a terrible road when I went to see my sister in CO Springs 2 years ago. I was watching a video of a traveler on Hwy 50 and it didn't seem to be that good either.

Some of the roads here aren't great either, in front of my acreage is a county highway that should have been repaved 10 years ago. When mowing lawn I have to occasionally pick up cement chunks. I know I've had 2 tires punctured by rebar.

 

[Will Prowse]

I think he was asking which countries have solar for 3x cheaper than the states. Not countries you have visited.

Ohhh Australia and everyone commenting on my videos saying that our prices are insane.

 

[Zwy]

I think he was asking which countries have solar for 3x cheaper than the states. Not countries you have visited.

 

[Dave.A]

The US also has very high labor cost which can be 1/2 or more the total cost of a system.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I can certainly see Hong Kong/Beijing having much lower cost for solar than the US as they are part of China which has a history of heavy subsidies for solar/renewable energy. However, it's not really appropriate to compare the US with non-industrialized nations in absolute costs. I believe Japan is the only industrialized nation you listed and they also have a history heavy subsidies. But I doubt solar is 3x cheaper in Japan than the US. I would interested to see more info on that. In any case, I would agree that cost for solar is much too high in the US.

from experience: japan solar= 3.5million yen (42k USD at that time) for 8kw of grid tie roof mount on the primary house (2011) 350,000 (10%) million yen in rebates or about 4200 USD in rebates. so I do not think it is any cheaper if anything more expensive. everyone has to hire a TEPCO (for my area) contracted solar instal company or no install. non permitted/self install penalty starts at 1 million yen. zero competition as all of the companies that are permitted via TEPCO have divided out the locations so that they can all eat hardily at the trough.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

japan 2011 price was roughly 1800 usd per 265 watt panel. price has not dropped but overall wattage of panels has risen making it cheaper per watt.

 

[solar8484]

from experience: japan solar= 3.5million yen (42k USD at that time) for 8kw of grid tie roof mount on the primary house (2011) 350,000 (10%) million yen in rebates or about 4200 USD in rebates. so I do not think it is any cheaper if anything more expensive. everyone has to hire a TEPCO (for my area) contracted solar instal company or no install. non permitted/self install penalty starts at 1 million yen. zero competition as all of the companies that are permitted via TEPCO have divided out the locations so that they can all eat hardily at the trough.

That's consistent with my experience with prices in Japan. I used to travel there quite often for work and not much there was cheaper than the US especially in the Tokyo metro area. Some colleagues used to ask me to take them on shopping trips when they visited the US to save money.

 

[Michigan Solar and ESS]

Actually the whole argument becomes irrelevant when one realizes that individual income tax is inherently unfair and illegal. We shouldn't be paying it at all including all the accountants and related costs associated with income tax.

Interestingly enough the tax code itself holds the answer. Anyone who is not a citizen of Washington DC, IS NOT liable for individual income tax. Its written right in the definitions in USC Title 26, Section 7701 (9) (10). Look it up. We shouldn't be paying individual income tax at all, its voluntary.

If you believe it's unfair, wouldn't you do anything to pay less tax? Maybe fill out a form to save 30% ?