Solar & Wind Power combo

[jonmcgarry]

Hi Guys,

Im running 800w of solar, 3 Aliexpress Wind Turbines (we dont have very much solar in winter)
I'm not sure is Wind power is a popular thing on this forum
but I said I'd post anyway.
Please feel free to have a look at my setup. Any suggestions welcome !

 

[snoobler]

Hi Guys,

Im running 800w of solar, 3 Aliexpress Wind Turbines (we dont have very much solar in winter)
I'm not sure is Wind power is a popular thing on this forum
but I said I'd post anyway.
Please feel free to have a look at my setup. Any suggestions welcome !

Welcome to the forum.

Not very popular given the title of the forum (DIY Solar), but there is a wind section.

Hard data you can provide relating wind speeds, turbine parameters and production would be very valuable to help establish realistic expectations for some. Wind can be very misleading for some, and the industry doesn't generally make any meaningful effort to educate the public. Very much "buyer-beware."

 

[jonmcgarry]

Welcome to the forum.

Not very popular given the title of the forum (DIY Solar), but there is a wind section.

Hard data you can provide relating wind speeds, turbine parameters and production would be very valuable to help establish realistic expectations for some. Wind can be very misleading for some, and the industry doesn't generally make any meaningful effort to educate the public. Very much "buyer-beware."

Yes it is difficult to measure, I've purchased a weather station recently to get a proper idea of wind in my area, its not like solar not constant but i have gotten a couple 2 kwh in 12 hours from 2 turbines, 400w each . Where as my solar did almost 0 in this time. Most turbine reach their rated wattage at 13m/s but then you have alot of sellers quoting crazy number from small wind turbines and selling junk. Then you gotta consider the wind is never usually constant full power of the turbine its usually half but it can easily go above the rated power also in gusts.
I will have a look for the wind section ! Didnt see it earlier ? thanks for reply .Jon

 

[snoobler]

13m/s is some pretty stout wind...

I'm looking at Wind as well. About $2500 for a ~6' dia unit w/tower installed. Wind in my area will produce an annual average of 80-100W with many days of 0 and some days of 30mph.

 

[jonmcgarry]

13m/s is some pretty stout wind...

I'm looking at Wind as well. About $2500 for a ~6' dia unit w/tower installed. Wind in my area will produce an annual average of 80-100W with many days of 0 and some days of 30mph.

Yeah, assuming your in the states theres only one wind turbine id be looking at, hurricane wind power 750w seen some good stuff from them, ive heard some really bad things on missouri wind so stay clear of them. Theres plenty of Chinese turbines the guide for them is how much they weigh should be over 20kg generator weight for over 750w. My 400w weigh 11kg and my 500w 15kg. We get some 60mph to 70mph gusts storms regularly here in Ireland so i guess it suits here more. I did my "tower" myself but its not high due to me not wanting to destroy my turbines. I only have them 3 years and its a steep learning curve ! But you will learn quick ?

 

[Hedges]

I think the turbines are way too low, lots of turbulence which kills power production.
I suggest guyed towers made from several lengths of 10' conduit or 21' pipe. Maybe somewhere in the range 30' to 90', the more the merrier.
Guying in 4 directions 90 degrees apart rather than 3 directions should hold it steady during tilt-up.
(locate them where, if they do fall, they won't slice your house in half)

 

[snoobler]

This is a package from a local supplier in my area, who has been the straightest shooter I've encountered, and he provides references to other local folks. They used to use MWANDS, but they had trouble with them. Not sure what unit they use now as it's been too long. Given the package (30' tower) and the fact that all I'd have to do is the wiring, that's probably the route I'll go.

 

[jonmcgarry]

I think the turbines are way too low, lots of turbulence which kills power production.
I suggest guyed towers made from several lengths of 10' conduit or 21' pipe. Maybe somewhere in the range 30' to 90', the more the merrier.
Guying in 4 directions 90 degrees apart rather than 3 directions should hold it steady during tilt-up.
(locate them where, if they do fall, they won't slice your house in half)

Yeah i agree they are too low , i suppose i was half afriad to stick them higher due to the storms we get, its something i will looks at in the future for sure ?

 

[jonmcgarry]

This is a package from a local supplier in my area, who has been the straightest shooter I've encountered, and he provides references to other local folks. They used to use MWANDS, but they had trouble with them. Not sure what unit they use now as it's been too long. Given the package (30' tower) and the fact that all I'd have to do is the wiring, that's probably the route I'll go.

Are you using lifepo4?

 

[Hedges]

Yeah i agree they are too low , i suppose i was half afriad to stick them higher due to the storms we get, its something i will looks at in the future for sure ?

Higher steady forces, vs. shaking from turbulence.



Do you have a "survival" windspeed spec?
You could stick an anemometer on the tower before raising the wind turbine.
If wind speed is too high (we should all be so lucky!), cut down the blades?

 

[jonmcgarry]

Higher steady forces, vs. shaking from turbulence.

View attachment 34019

Do you have a "survival" windspeed spec?
You could stick an anemometer on the tower before raising the wind turbine.
If wind speed is too high (we should all be so lucky!), cut down the blades?

All of the Chinese ratings are 45 m/s, i would not like to be near one at this speed ?? im waiting on delivery of a weather station with anemometer so i can properly see what im getting. Yeah if you cut the blades it will lose rpm quiet a bit but then might be shit at low winds ?, i might go again when same length pole i would say it would make a good difference and guy the pole again but id need to figure out a hinge mechanism for maintenance.

 

[Hedges]

... guy the pole again but id need to figure out a hinge mechanism for maintenance.

There's a scheme with hinge and a pipe at right angles to let it get raised by winch or vehicle.
You'll have to do the math on mechanical disadvantage to determine what pull force is required.
And make sure the guy wires can do their job so you don't end up in a Wile E Coyote situation when raising it. (or else cable longer than tower is tall.)

wind turbine towers Basics

The tower (or mast ) on which a wind turbine sits is an essential and often forgotten part of a wind turbine system. Raising a wind turb...

freewindenergy.blogspot.com

 

[jonmcgarry]

There's a scheme with hinge and a pipe at right angles to let it get raised by winch or vehicle.
You'll have to do the math on mechanical disadvantage to determine what pull force is required.
And make sure the guy wires can do their job so you don't end up in a Wile E Coyote situation when raising it. (or else cable longer than tower is tall.)

wind turbine towers Basics

The tower (or mast ) on which a wind turbine sits is an essential and often forgotten part of a wind turbine system. Raising a wind turb...

freewindenergy.blogspot.com

Cheers for the tips, do you have a Wind setup also ?

 

[Hedges]

Cheers for the tips, do you have a Wind setup also ?

Nope.
I did pick up the mechanical part of a WinCharger years ago, never installed it.
Back in the early/mid 2000's I noted that CEC rebates would cover something like $20,000 for a 10kW turbine like Bergy, 100% before tower.
In fact, I read in a report that some people put in wind even at poor locations because it was essentially free.
But my mount property is a hillside with very tall trees, and my home is more of a suburban lot, didn't think a wind turbine would be good here.
I read some reports on actual power produced vs. measured wind speed (production maybe 50% or 33% of what speed would have suggested), and the take-away was the turbulence is everything.

My setup is big grid-tie with battery backup finally installed in the past year.

 

[jonmcgarry]

Cool, I'm hoping to get into grid tie at some stage, The government here are introducing a scheme where they actually payback right now
they don't. I'm not sure what standards you have to keep to, is it just island protection that it needs to protect electric workers when an outage occurs ?
I'd have to upgrade to a 48v turbine as well but I'd like to keep a battery setup also.

 

[pollenface]

There's always a better way to do something, and once you start you'll always be thinking of ways to improve it. It's a journey and a learning experience.

 

[Hedges]

Cool, I'm hoping to get into grid tie at some stage, The government here are introducing a scheme where they actually payback right now
they don't. I'm not sure what standards you have to keep to, is it just island protection that it needs to protect electric workers when an outage occurs ?
I'd have to upgrade to a 48v turbine as well but I'd like to keep a battery setup also.

If your utility meter is mechanical, then so long as it doesn't have a ratchet for one-direction only, you already have net metering and they don't know it.

Grid tie in the US we have UL1741, anti-islanding so if the grid goes down the inverter shuts down.
With net metering we get a credit equal to retail, use grid as storage.
With time of use rates, credit is is dollars not watt-hours, number of watt-hours we get in return may be more or less than we produce (guess which way the time schedule is biased.)
My area now pays a small $0.04/kWh cash credit that carries over to next year, may cover the $10/month fee (which is a bargain compared to buying batteries.)

New "Rule 21" grid-support regulations call for inverters to remain on-line for a while during grid voltage/frequency excursions. There is so much PV that if all disconnected at once the grid might shut off.

Grid-tie is economical, a fraction the price of utility rates. Normally done without batteries, sometimes batteries optional.

Batteries are nice for backup during power failures, but likely not cost-effective. Although, DIY prices can be (if you don't kill your battery along the way.)
My AGM batteries cost $0.50/kWh over their life. Some DIY batteries cost $0.05/kWh. I put grid-tie PV at $0.05 or less. Your wind will vary.

 

[jonmcgarry]

If your utility meter is mechanical, then so long as it doesn't have a ratchet for one-direction only, you already have net metering and they don't know it.

Grid tie in the US we have UL1741, anti-islanding so if the grid goes down the inverter shuts down.
With net metering we get a credit equal to retail, use grid as storage.
With time of use rates, credit is is dollars not watt-hours, number of watt-hours we get in return may be more or less than we produce (guess which way the time schedule is biased.)
My area now pays a small $0.04/kWh cash credit that carries over to next year, may cover the $10/month fee (which is a bargain compared to buying batteries.)

New "Rule 21" grid-support regulations call for inverters to remain on-line for a while during grid voltage/frequency excursions. There is so much PV that if all disconnected at once the grid might shut off.

Grid-tie is economical, a fraction the price of utility rates. Normally done without batteries, sometimes batteries optional.

Batteries are nice for backup during power failures, but likely not cost-effective. Although, DIY prices can be (if you don't kill your battery along the way.)
My AGM batteries cost $0.50/kWh over their life. Some DIY batteries cost $0.05/kWh. I put grid-tie PV at $0.05 or less. Your wind will vary.

We just have a wheel meter not a digital or smart, no idea if they can go backwards are not, If I generate excess power would it send the meter backwards
if it was the right one ? Yea the grid is the ultimate battery bank, but I do still like the idea of having power when the power goes.
It does go a good bit in our Ireland due to wind storms and being in a rural location.

 

[Hedges]

We just have a wheel meter not a digital or smart, no idea if they can go backwards are not, If I generate excess power would it send the meter backwards
if it was the right one ? Yea the grid is the ultimate battery bank, but I do still like the idea of having power when the power goes.
It does go a good bit in our Ireland due to wind storms and being in a rural location.

Been there, done that. Bet it works for you. Just be a net consumer as of each meter reading, and they'll be none the wiser. Or, look into what the utility programs allow.
Just get yourself a suitable grid-tie inverter. Ours in the U.S. are 230V, 60 Hz, and have UL 1741 anti-islanding. The models supporting your voltage and frequency (or adjustable to that) should work for you.
If installing an authorized rather than bootleg system, various inverter features and safety disconnects may be required; in which case research before you buy.

You can also have power during grid outages a couple of ways.
Recent model SMA Sunny Boy have "Secure Power" outlet, up to 2000W (given enough PV) while the sun shines.
Sunny Island battery inverter + Sunny Boy PV inverter gives grid tie and grid backup.
Several brands of inverters, all-in-one, hybrid, etc. provide battery-less or battery-based backup.
Prices are all over the map, $500 to $10,000 (US) for the single or multiple electronic units needed.