Solid State, Tesla New Cells and Used Lithium - Future + Prices

[sshibly]

Personally, I avoided Li for years cuz of the $$$ associated with them.

Last year, I was introduced to the 280AH EVE cells.

Given the price tag of EVE 280AH cells ($110/cell with shipping to US) and the price of LittoKala 100AH 4 cells off Aliexpress, I am amazed at the prices of used recovered Li cells/batteries.

Few weeks back I watched the CEO of the Solid State battery company, one word wow.

3x capacity for same size, I can hardly wait.

Right now $100/KW seems to the standard for used cells??

I think that is pretty high given the prices of NEW cells.

With the massive number of public transportation project here in US and around the world, do we think we will get a massive amount used/surplus li cells in the market this year?

The Tesla cells look very attractive, anyone get a chance to pick up a few?

 

[shepvandelay]

THREE TIMES the energy density! whoo golly.

Yeah.. If you believe that.. I got a bridge to sell you.

Ole ELON has been promising theyre going to have new lithium chemistry thats a full order of magnitude more energy dense.. read TEN TIMES the amount.. for years.... and years now/

and yet.,. nothing.

I guess quantumscapes CEO must figure why not throw 3x out there. sounds a little more believable right....?? I assume you were talking about quantumscape. theyll be luckly not to go bankrupt. theyve been hemorrhaging money for years searching for the holy grail and as soon as their stocks jumped up in december after dudes announcements, they tumbled back down damn near 50% the next month..

Heh first of all the 280ah eves and lishens were selling for less last year then now.. the price fluctuates.. but generally.. You can more or less count on the cost of energy storage to decrease.. a LITTLE BIT.. every year. Yeah, its gotten lower.. but lets hope global inflation doesnt kick in and rocket everything back up again.

truth is, batteries are gonna be a lot like bullets. theyre manufacturing em like wildfire and theyre still hard to come by for normal people. the most of them are getting shuffled around and put into big EV projects and pro solar stuff.

Its a great time for energy storage.. but mostly due to increased mass production tech. lion batteries have been around for.. at least the last 20, 30 years.. just in consumer electronics.. density hasnt really changed.. not compared to cost of production. The only thing you can count on, when those batteries that have 3x the energy density do come out... theyre going to be as expensive AF. probably over 3 times the price. because who ever cracks that code is going to want the returns on their research, and be looking at massive investments to develop the manufacturing technology.

anything with 3x the energy density of current lion batts thats even remotely cost effective to produce eventually.. the world would be jumping on with both feet. not just this handful of battery science developers. sure theyre making progress, but its slow. they gotta make big claims.. if they want to be able to keep staying afloat loosing hundreds of millions of dollars a year...

finally.. where are you seeing $100 a kw for USED cells? batteryhookup is selling used 18650s for $61 a kw/hr all day every day, never cycled.. and theyve been doing it at that price for at least since last year.. when I tuned into em . where have you been looking!?

dont let em sell you that snake oil.

 

[sshibly]

THREE TIMES the energy density! whoo golly.

Yeah.. If you believe that.. I got a bridge to sell you.

Ole ELON has been promising theyre going to have new lithium chemistry thats a full order of magnitude more energy dense.. read TEN TIMES the amount.. for years.... and years now/

and yet.,. nothing.

I guess quantumscapes CEO must figure why not throw 3x out there. sounds a little more believable right....?? I assume you were talking about quantumscape. theyll be luckly not to go bankrupt. theyve been hemorrhaging money for years searching for the holy grail and as soon as their stocks jumped up in december after dudes announcements, they tumbled back down damn near 50% the next month..

Heh first of all the 280ah eves and lishens were selling for less last year then now.. the price fluctuates.. but generally.. You can more or less count on the cost of energy storage to decrease.. a LITTLE BIT.. every year. Yeah, its gotten lower.. but lets hope global inflation doesnt kick in and rocket everything back up again.

truth is, batteries are gonna be a lot like bullets. theyre manufacturing em like wildfire and theyre still hard to come by for normal people. the most of them are getting shuffled around and put into big EV projects and pro solar stuff.

Its a great time for energy storage.. but mostly due to increased mass production tech. lion batteries have been around for.. at least the last 20, 30 years.. just in consumer electronics.. density hasnt really changed.. not compared to cost of production. The only thing you can count on, when those batteries that have 3x the energy density do come out... theyre going to be as expensive AF. probably over 3 times the price. because who ever cracks that code is going to want the returns on their research, and be looking at massive investments to develop the manufacturing technology.

anything with 3x the energy density of current lion batts thats even remotely cost effective to produce eventually.. the world would be jumping on with both feet. not just this handful of battery science developers. sure theyre making progress, but its slow. they gotta make big claims.. if they want to be able to keep staying afloat loosing hundreds of millions of dollars a year...

finally.. where are you seeing $100 a kw for USED cells? batteryhookup is selling used 18650s for $61 a kw/hr all day every day, never cycled.. and theyve been doing it at that price for at least since last year.. when I tuned into em . where have you been looking!?

dont let em sell you that snake oil.

I already bought EVE's and Topbands, so I am in the reptilian cage already
Yes, quantumscape, R&D Co's do make a lot of promises, we call it vapor ware in my business.

I hear you on the 3 fold, the best thing now is the new Tesla bat [not sure if one can get em]

Demand and Supply is the determinant,
That is what I think we will get more supply soon of the batts meant for public transportation.
Lot of fast charging solutions are going in.

used cell prices are all over, yes, those modem cells are quite low, but BH has this one

LG 14s 48v 2.2kWh LITHIUM ION MODULE is $220 +freight​

When one can get 280ah EVEs for bit more, I struggle to understand the pricing of the used cells like these.