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Solis hybrid disable export (Solis S6-EH1P6K-L-PLUS)

cotneit

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Hi everyone! Do Solis hybrids have an option to not output power on AC Grid port? I think DEYE calls this "Zero Export to Load" mode, in which only backup/essential loads are supplied with battery/PV power.

Say I have non-essential loads connected but for whatever reason don't want to supply battery/PV power to them, can I do that? Or would I have to basically move CT to AC Grid port and limit export to 0 to achieve that?

My another concern is operating without a CT, I assume in this mode it would act as if there was a CT on AC Grid port, in which case limiting export to 0 would achieve what I want, but this is pure guesswork and I would appreciate if someone could confirm that.

This is a generic question about Solis Hybrids, but the specific one I have in mind is Solis S6-EH1P6K-L-PLUS, and the manual for it shows two settings in the mobile app: "Enable export" which is a toggle, and "Max Export Power" which is a numeric value.

My assumption is that "Enable export" setting controls whether inverter outputs anything on AC Grid port, while "Max Export Power" setting controls how much power can go past CT boundary. If that is the case then disabling "Enable export" setting would achieve what I want, but once again would appreciate if someone could confirm my assumptions!
 
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Hi everyone! Do Solis hybrids have an option to not output power on AC Grid port? I think DEYE calls this "Zero Export to Load" mode, in which only backup/essential loads are supplied with battery/PV power.

Say I have non-essential loads connected but for whatever reason don't want to supply battery/PV power to them, can I do that? Or would I have to basically move CT to AC Grid port and limit export to 0 to achieve that?
Yes. The Solis hybrids have different operating modes. It sounds as though you would be wanting to use 'backup mode' - see

My another concern is operating without a CT, I assume in this mode it would act as if there was a CT on AC Grid port, in which case limiting export to 0 would achieve what I want, but this is pure guesswork and I would appreciate if someone could confirm that.
No, you will need to have the CT on the incoming grid for the Solis to operate correctly. As I said above, you can use backup mode only power essential loads from the battery via the AC-Backup port.

It is also possible to configure TOU settings - by setting a discharge period and the discharge current to zero amps, you can prevent the Solis from using the battery during those time periods.

With some programming skills it is also possible to fully control the Solis Hybrid via its RS485 COM port, using a RPi or similar.

This is a generic question about Solis Hybrids, but the specific one I have in mind is Solis S6-EH1P6K-L-PLUS, and the manual for it shows two settings in the mobile app: "Enable export" which is a toggle, and "Max Export Power" which is a numeric value.

My assumption is that "Enable export" setting controls whether inverter outputs anything on AC Grid port, while "Max Export Power" setting controls how much power can go past CT boundary. If that is the case then disabling "Enable export" setting would achieve what I want, but once again would appreciate if someone could confirm my assumptions!
I don't use the "send-all-my-data-to-china" app, but from the screen or RS485 comms it is possible to limit the export to grid and specify that in 100W steps from zero upwards. In self-use mode the Solis will still power house loads.

There is also the option to specify meter-placement between Grid and Inverter - IIRC @peufeu has some experience of the exact differences possible with those settings. Also suggest you read through this thread and, if you have the skills, take a look at @peufeu's Grugbus project.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/solis-s5-various-issues.52383/
 
IIRC @peufeu has some experience of the exact differences possible with those settings.
Oh yes I do have experience, but my experience is I have no idea what the "two meters" setting does :ROFLMAO:

If you use the "meter on load" setting then the inverter will output the same power as what the meter measures, on the S5 this only works with the latest firmware (it is buggy with the old one) and I don't think it will do what you want.

My assumption is that "Enable export" setting controls whether inverter outputs anything on AC Grid port, while "Max Export Power" setting controls how much power can go past CT boundary.
I don't know which setting you're referring to, but you got to be a little bit careful with Chinese translations... Is it "Enable export", or "Enable Export Power Limit?" I don't know which one you're referring to.

If you enable Export Power Limit and set Max Export Power to zero, then you'll get "zero export to CT" (or smartmeter).

If you do not enable Export Power Limit, I have no idea what this does. I tried it and there was no change.

All hybrid inverters need to limit export, otherwise they'd just discharge battery into grid at night. I mean it needs to know how much the loads are using in order to produce the right amount. So I guess disabling this setting would only make sense in an offgrid setting.

In all these hybrid inverters (I mean inverter as a big box) there is only one inverter (this time I mean inverter as the circuit that produces AC power) and this single inverter is used both for backup output and grid import/export. So when the grid is present, backup port and grid port are tied together with internal relays. Now if you want the inverter to power only loads on the backup port, then it can only do that when disconnected from the grid. Otherwise, when the grid is present, the inverter circuit has no way to know if the power it is outputting goes to the backup port or the grid port without measuring power on both ports. That's what the CT/smartmeter does.

That said you can put the CT/smartmeter wherever you want, usually it's on the grid input from the house, but nothing stops you to put it on the inverter grid port or somewhere in between, so you get the same behavior as the Deye. That would be a bit awkward, because when the battery is full and there's excess PV, then the inverter would not use it to power the house for free, but if it's what you want...

I think you have an XY problem, what do you want to achieve exactly?
 
Thank you both for answers and sorry for disappearing!

I had some time to think about it and I think I understand now, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I had two goals in mind:
1. Simplify the installation
2. Avoid possible issues with utility by not outputting any power to the grid

Regarding #1, Deye inverters have an internal CT (which they explicitly mention in manual) to prevent export if only Backup load needs to be powered. I'm pretty sure I once saw a video of a Solis inverter operating like this but can't find any docs on the matter.

I'm pretty sure #2 is just not possible with grid-tie hybrids (as in hybrids that synchronize with the grid) because even on Backup port when some powerful load turns off there will be some power "pushed back" to the grid because inverter can't instantly react to load changes.

Unless it's possible to "untie" Backup port from the grid, so that only PV and Battery are used to power the backup port, while Grid is only used for charging batteries when needed. But that sounds like a niche feature that would increase complexity so I'm assuming that's not possible.

Also why I'm concerned with #2 in the first place, I heard some utility meters count export energy as energy consumed and it can add up even with "zero export" because of load fluctuations mentioned above. Not sure if there are any other things to be concerned about.
 
I'm pretty sure #2 is just not possible with grid-tie hybrids (as in hybrids that synchronize with the grid) because even on Backup port when some powerful load turns off there will be some power "pushed back" to the grid because inverter can't instantly react to load changes.
Correct
Unless it's possible to "untie" Backup port from the grid, so that only PV and Battery are used to power the backup port, while Grid is only used for charging batteries when needed. But that sounds like a niche feature that would increase complexity so I'm assuming that's not possible.
Only way is to disconnect the grid port (ie, use it as offgrid)
Also why I'm concerned with #2 in the first place, I heard some utility meters count export energy as energy consumed and it can add up even with "zero export" because of load fluctuations mentioned above. Not sure if there are any other things to be concerned about.
You could check what your meter does...

In theory it should be possible to guarantee almost zero export. To achieve this the CT and associated electronics should be accurate and fast enough to react immediately (I mean say < 100µs) to a change in load. No-one implements this.
 
Thank you both for answers and sorry for disappearing!

I had some time to think about it and I think I understand now, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

I had two goals in mind:
1. Simplify the installation
2. Avoid possible issues with utility by not outputting any power to the grid

Regarding #1, Deye inverters have an internal CT (which they explicitly mention in manual) to prevent export if only Backup load needs to be powered. I'm pretty sure I once saw a video of a Solis inverter operating like this but can't find any docs on the matter.

I'm pretty sure #2 is just not possible with grid-tie hybrids (as in hybrids that synchronize with the grid) because even on Backup port when some powerful load turns off there will be some power "pushed back" to the grid because inverter can't instantly react to load changes.

Unless it's possible to "untie" Backup port from the grid, so that only PV and Battery are used to power the backup port, while Grid is only used for charging batteries when needed. But that sounds like a niche feature that would increase complexity so I'm assuming that's not possible.

Also why I'm concerned with #2 in the first place, I heard some utility meters count export energy as energy consumed and it can add up even with "zero export" because of load fluctuations mentioned above. Not sure if there are any other things to be concerned about.
As owner of Solis S6 Hybrid inverter:

1) Both AC-Grid and AC-Backup port are grid-tied in "Self-use" mode. When the battery is suddenly flat, and the option "allow charging from grid" is not checked, the inverter will work in passthrough mode (the condition is to set "Battery Saving" where the inverter will get its 'idle power' from the grid, otherwise the inverter will power off after draining off the battery instead)

2) In "Self-use" mode, if the grid is gone, the relay will disconnect the AC-Grid circuit. Only AC-Backup will keep working if there is sufficient battery power.

3) There is an option "Off-Grid" mode. This option disconnect the AC-Grid relay with the inverter. AC charging will not work in "Off-Grid" mode. If the battery goes flat, that it, no power....until there is sufficient PV power to 'reactivate' the inverter again in the morning. And nope, the "battery saving" doesn't get the 'idle power' from grid in "Off-Grid" mode.

In "self-use" mode, there will be power leak to the grid side no matter what depending on the load at both AC-Grid and AC-Backup.

And for your last point on utility meters count export energy as energy consumed and it can add up even with "zero export" because of load fluctuations, yes, it is happening on my utility provider meter. My utility meter goes up 1 - 2kWh per day in "Self-use" mode (with Battery Saving disabled)
 
In theory it should be possible to guarantee almost zero export. To achieve this the CT and associated electronics should be accurate and fast enough to react immediately (I mean say < 100µs) to a change in load. No-one implements this.
For good reason: stability of the grid when there are many inverters attached.
Mandated by regulations.
 
To achieve this the CT and associated electronics should be accurate and fast enough to react immediately (I mean say < 100µs) to a change in load. No-one implements this.
Just musing... can a CT clamp accurately measure import/export power with only 1/200th of an AC cycle at 50Hz especially when there can be reactive loads? (I'm more into digital electronics than this analogue stuff 👩‍💻)
 
What I was thinking about is to measure current (not power) and have the inverter output the opposite current in real time, resulting in zero current on the grid port. In this case it's not necessary to measure power.
 
You got me curious here. Got more info about that?
Vague memories of previous discussions, mainly. But a web search on "grid stability inverter response time"
turns up loads of technical papers, which all seem to have words like "Lyapunov" in them...
(if that name means anything to you, you have my sympathy)
 
Just musing... can a CT clamp accurately measure import/export power with only 1/200th of an AC cycle at 50Hz especially when there can be reactive loads? (I'm more into digital electronics than this analogue stuff 👩‍💻)
Just sending that data back to the inverter will take longer than that. Assuming baud rate of 9600, that 1/200th of a cycle (0.0001 seconds) is long enough to send 9.6 bits or about a byte of information. Plus there's other overheads in the packet and processing. Even at 38400 it'll still only by able to send 38.4 bits.

A CT that's linked directly to the inverter could be much faster.
 
Hi everyone! Do Solis hybrids have an option to not output power on AC Grid port? I think DEYE calls this "Zero Export to Load" mode, in which only backup/essential loads are supplied with battery/PV power.

Say I have non-essential loads connected but for whatever reason don't want to supply battery/PV power to them, can I do that? Or would I have to basically move CT to AC Grid port and limit export to 0 to achieve that?

My another concern is operating without a CT, I assume in this mode it would act as if there was a CT on AC Grid port, in which case limiting export to 0 would achieve what I want, but this is pure guesswork and I would appreciate if someone could confirm that.

This is a generic question about Solis Hybrids, but the specific one I have in mind is Solis S6-EH1P6K-L-PLUS, and the manual for it shows two settings in the mobile app: "Enable export" which is a toggle, and "Max Export Power" which is a numeric value.

My assumption is that "Enable export" setting controls whether inverter outputs anything on AC Grid port, while "Max Export Power" setting controls how much power can go past CT boundary. If that is the case then disabling "Enable export" setting would achieve what I want, but once again would appreciate if someone could confirm my assumptions!
I have the same model, you need CT in order for the limit export to work.

and I think your only option will be using a backup switch, they are pretty cheap around 40 Euros/USD
and connect the inverter and the grid to it, in case no enough solar/battery it switches to grid, and they are fast, 20ms most of the electronics will not be affected.
and set solis mode to off-grid
 
I have the same model, you need CT in order for the limit export to work.

and I think your only option will be using a backup switch, they are pretty cheap around 40 Euros/USD
and connect the inverter and the grid to it, in case no enough solar/battery it switches to grid, and they are fast, 20ms most of the electronics will not be affected.
and set solis mode to off-grid
If you set it to off-grid mode, it will not recharge from the grid even if you have a grid connection.
 

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